Vintage Lathe & Drill Press Restoration Log [file size warning]

[ssddx]

it was suggested that i should post a copy of my original build log thread here in hobbies & leisure to try and spark some good discussion on a worthwhile topic so here it is. blame reynod, he suggested it

please keep responses here civil, appropriate and on topic in regards to machinery, tools, vintage items and antiques/oddities.

file size warning: there are quite a few photos being linked here. i have them as clickable thumbnails to reduce file size to make it easier for slower connections.

--

long story short: i snagged some really neat vintage machinery at a local auction recently that i plan to restore and put into use. this build log showcases my progress. i'll also open this thread up to other neat machinery and tool discussion.

after a bit of research this is what i know so far:

the lathe is an american tool works 16" high duty which was originally sold by vandyke churchill company as a distributor. minus motor and mount arm weight is about 2600 lb. still not sure on the age but in the vicinity of 1912-1920 (based on which manuals it shows up in i'd say most likely on the early range). its definitely the step cone pulley version but not sure if single or double back gear version at this point. the only info i have are product catalogs. capable of turning up to 18-1/2" over the 4-vee bed. the lima drive was an aftermarket conversion for belt-driven lathes to convert them to motor drive. some of them used model-a car transmissions (or were based off them) inside the motor housings (not sure which years did this). if using the lima drive, i'd have 4*3 (12) speeds including reverse. if using step cone alone i'd have at least 3 speeds (not sure if its a 3 or 4 step pulley... the lima drive has an attachment which is fit over the original pulley it looks like).

looks to be complete. not sure if motor works but gearbox is free. minor carriage issue where pinion is stuck between rack and lead screw which needs to be fixed before putting into use. planning on using another motor until we have 3 phase power.

the drill press is a sibley 28" heavy duty from the 1944-1947 era. 26-403 spindle rpm ran on a 3hp 3ph motor. capable of drilling up to 2" through solid cast iron. approximate weight of 2000 lb + 350 lb for motor drive. 25" table, takes #4mt bits or adapters. came with a nice chuck too.

complete except for a few handles which are missing. everything is free moving and works. not sure about motor. planning to use another motor until we have 3 phase power. looking for replacement handles which look like the originals.

--

photos thus far:

this section is prior to pickup from auction.

drill at the auction before it was picked up. table was removed.


bottom


quill, handle and autofeed mechanism


lot


top of quill showing gearbox


original motor and stand


belt gaurd


flat belt driven


*big* flat belt


lathe before getting picked up. end view


front. tailstock removed.


headstock


carriage


end


back


compound rest


tag


distributor tag


size


handles


thread cutting


motor gearbox speeds


gears


bed


end


back to the drill press... motor belt guard


belt guard.


motor


odd that they have a 3-vee belt pulley going to flat belt pulley but this was stock


motor tag


sibley tag


distributor tag


back to the lathe. back of motor


hand crank on motor


oiler on headstock spindle


bigger


more tags


tags


--

restoration photos:

this section is after everything arrived home and work has begun on restoration

since the carriage was giving us issues with the stuck pinion, we removed the carriage.


some painted guards for the lathe. nice color?


started polishing up the ways and cleaning off 100 years worth of grime.


clean ways. a bit nicked but for 90-100 year old vintage machinery its not terrible.


compound rest removed


first glance at the nice light that came with the lathe. this mounts on the back of the carriage on the rectangular support


zoom


overall, shown sitting on drill press base


cover closeup


motor mount


apron jacked up since carriage is removed.


cleaned up the chuck. fresh lube.


back to the drill press. table. foot for scale. large 25"


motor


back to the lathe. painted steady rest.


alternate view


back to the drill. laying out the final location. even the base itself is well over 200lb.


drill lugged into the shop.


alternate


good top view


during removal from the trailer a casting broke. pinion is fine and casting is fixable.


alternate


back to the lathe. headstock


nice view of headstock oiler and shaft


quite a bit of crud inside it too


first view of tailstock


back to drill press. started polishing up the quill. noticible improvement.


zoom out


looking good!


started working on the elevation shaft.


painting the base of drill shaft prior to mounting base.


started cleaning up cone pulleys. final cleaning will have to wait till in operation (easier to sand while pulleys are in motion.


found a handle which will fit. only temporary.


elevation shaft.


polished tag


photo from manual. compare to actual.


photo from manual. compare to actual.


while at auction found a good buy on some tooling. got a good price and looks like crud when i bought it though it cleaned up real nice. see photos later.


good buy on lathe turret tool holder.


a few other nice buys.


bought a steady rest for mounting on the carriage. turns out it doesnt fit so i will have to sell it off.


drill press is standing at last! shes a tall fit even with a 10ft ceiling. you can get a good look at it completely now minus table of course


table installed. bottle for scale


found another interesting buy. huge machine vise. large wrenches for scale.


this is what all that lathe tooling looks like after being cleaned up. looks almost new.


carbide is practically new on most of them.


this is where it starts getting good. complete drill head painted and polished. she is starting to look purdy.


color is dark hunter green.


it took quite a bit of work getting all the gears clean.


alternate view


alternate view


popped the top gearbox cover off since mechanism was stuck. 60 year old grease was rock hard. yikes. cleaned and now works great.


shown engaged


cleaned up the table and painted t-slots


found a lever which may work for top gearbox


covers installed over gears. looking good.


base, table, arm and head all painted. getting close to startup time!


table and arm


base. came out pretty nice.


motor mount.


--

both are works in progress. the drill press is coming along nicely and i should be able to get it up and running fairly soon. once work is done on the drill i'll get back to working on the lathe.

 

[MU_Engineer]

Very neat, I always appreciate seeing "old arn" being brought back to life.

1. How much slop and runout are there in the lathe and drill press quills?

2. How many of what kind of bearings did you have to replace? The giant oilers in the lathe make me suspicious that they may be babbitt bearings which are a real big ball of wax to replace (re-pour.)

3. You can easily and relatively inexpensively power a 3 hp or smaller 3 ph motor from regular single-phase 240 V with a variable-frequency drive (VFD.) The VFD is a solid-state device that converts single-phase 240 V at 60 Hz into 3 phase 240 V at a selectable frequency generally from 6-10 Hz to 120 Hz. A 3 hp VFD costs about $200. This lets you use regular single-phase 240 V and also gives you the added bonus of being able to vary the motor RPM as well. Many newer lathes and metalworking drill presses are set up out of the box with a 3 phase motor fed by a VFD off of single-phase 240 V instead of using belts to vary speeds. Anything 5 hp and larger, VFDs get crazy expensive and you are better off with a rotary converter. You can expensively buy them or cheaply build them; they are a 3 phase idler motor connected to a capacitor and a switch (a static converter) to start it. The 3 ph idle motor sits there with nothing connected to it and runs, generating the "missing" phase ("wild leg") via field induction.

4. How did you lift your equipment? I see a couple of wide front end tractors outside the door, the closest of which looks like a Massey-Harris with a wide front end and the one behind it is too hard to see but judging by color either an old John Deere or an Oliver.

5. Have you posted this over at OWWM? They would LOVE this build thread.

I enjoy woodworking and have a soft spot for old, large equipment (and tractors and old trucks.) One thing on my bucket list is to get a giant old DeWalt like a long-arm 14" or 16" GA, restore it, and then use it for crosscutting. The main issues are that my tiny little shop isn't large enough to fit one and such equipment very rarely comes up for sale in the lower Midwest. About all we get is rusted out old cheapo Craftsman and Harbor Freight stuff.

 

[ssddx]

1. the lathe headstock is currently removed for cleanup purposes. checking tolerances on this will have to wait until after i have things painted and back together. it does seem pretty tight from manual inspection. i could check the run-out on the drill at this time by manually spinning the quill and setting up a micrometer on the table but am trying to make more of a push to getting it cleaned up first. certainly on my list of things to do - i'll have to let everyone know how testing goes.

2. so far i have not had to replace any bearings, yet. now, this might certainly change once i have things up and running after i inspect things a little more in detail. as far as babbit bearings are concerned, the one bottom cone pulley babbit bearing on the drill seems a little worn but i'll have to inspect this a bit more when the unit is up and running to see if its going to be an issue or not. the oil grooves were clogged which i freed up and likely i need to do this to the top as well. a little shaft wear grooving on the cone pulley shaft but considering its 70 years old not terrible at all.

actually i believe the ATW high duty lathes use bronze bearings. while it feels tight (and i need to certainly check runout) i think they will be okay. i was talking with an old coot who apparently ran these kind of lathes and noted the bronze bearings wore quite well. if i need to repour and redrill so be it however i dont think i will need to.

i've not seen wax bearings in machinery myself. most tend to be babbit metal bearings which have a lead or tin base. some were even made out of bronze. doing a repour isnt terribly hard other than re-etching oil grooves but hopefully things do not come to that. we did a lead bearing repour for an old flat belt bucksaw this year.

3. i'm aware of phase converters and vfds however i will not be buying anything new as i want to keep costs low. i've read about rotary converters however also heard that power is a bit dirty coming from them which could potentially damage motors. i'll probably start out with a single phase motor just to see how she runs while i make my mind up about any final power requirements. i'm not sure the old motor is even functional at this point. i hope it is (i'd like to use the original motor for a more original condition) but you never know.

4. it was quite easy getting them on the trailer, the site had a big forklift and they went on in minutes. getting them off... now that was the tricky part and took two days.

for the lathe heres a quick rundown
-jacked up and blocked both sides of the frame
-removed cast iron legs
-lowered down carefully one inch per side at a time
-removed headstock
-jacked frame and placed 4x8 runner underneath, chocking and screwing it inside the frame to secure
-using pinch bars, pipes and a tractor pulled it off the beavertail trailer
-pinch bar and pipe rolled it down to the garage
-using pipes and bars moved it into place
-jacked up and blocked each side one inch at a time
-cleaned up the frame where i could not reach when legs are on, primed legs and installed
-lowered to floor and set in final position, leveled with some metal spacers

for the drill heres a quick rundown
-removed lower cone pulley and support to reduce weight
-using a tractor bucket as a counterweight lowered to horizontal using chainfall
-removed base to reduce weight
-lifted whole frame with tractor bucket. it held however was quite a lift
-lowered to ground at horizontal
-pinch bar slid on wood to position inside garage
-reinstalled base
-tapped two holes into floor to set angle iron plate to use as pivot point
-using bucket as a counterweight chainfall hoisted up to vertical. the pivot plate made this go smoothly
-pinch bar and pipe moved into position

we used a john deere 2350 with bucket and a 3ton chainfall hoist mostly.

5. i did post over at OWWM and also practicalmachinist. i've gotten no replies on owwm (so did not bother to update it) though did get just a few on practicalmachinist though some were also rude. i'm heavily not impressed with either to be honest.

--

i saw a dewalt longarm at auction up my way a few months ago. went for dirt cheap. i would be interested in a nice *big* heavy duty radial arm myself (we have a craftsman right now) as they are useful but they really are not in demand and have almost zero resell value. the compound miter saws killed the market. still, the bigger saws have a nice purpose and are great for what they do best.

i like oddities myself. things that are unique or interesting. i was not planning on picking up any machinery yet however you need to buy things when you see them or you may never get them.

i'd like to pick up a crescent bad saw as well if i can coax one from someone for a low price. theres a few i'm watching within a 7 hour drive. unfortunately i dont have the budget for any large purchases right now.

--

hopefully today i'll have the bottom cone pulley support mounted and in place. next up is the center support. then i'll be working on the top and cleaning out the gearbox. once things get up and running i'll spend a bit more time with cleanup as right now we are pushing to get it running just to see what needs fixing and what doesnt.

 

[ssddx]

updates...

bottom cone pulley frame painted, installed.
cone pulley painted, babbit bearing oil grooves cleaned
center brace frame painted, installed

discovered one of the babbit bearings for the lower cone pulley is a bit loose but shouldnt cause an issue for now but may need to be addressed in the future. polishing of the outer cone pulley will need to wait until we get it up and running..

for the heck of it i threw the belt on (it needs to come off again to paint the top) and threw a micrometer stand on the table to check runout. i checked both the inside of the MT taper which runs out about .002" and with a MT drill bit inserted snug which runs out about .0035" at the top. ideally i need something better to test with than an old drill bit but for preliminary measurements it will have to do. i'll revisit the accuracy department once i have the beast up and running which should be fairly soon.

 

[MU_Engineer]

1. Your runout doesn't seem too bad, at least from a woodworker's perspective.

2. The "whole ball of wax" is a colloquialism; I was not talking about the bearings actually being made of wax 😀 Sounds like you have done babbitt repours before so you should be good if you have to do so on these machines.

3. I'd still definitely consider getting a VFD for your drill press unless the motor is toast. Check the continuity of("megger") the three windings and as long as they aren't open, your motor should be okay. A 3 phase motor is incredibly simple as it's just copper windings, an arbor, and a pair of bearings. Unless it got way too hot and the insulation failed, about all that ever goes wrong is the bearings need replaced. I'd not replace the 3 phase motor with a single-phase one unless you have one that's the correct size, frame, speed, enclosure type, and power just sitting around or available for peanuts. A new 3 ph capacitor start capacitor run TEFC motor that would be appropriate for that machine would run about $350 for an inexpensive one made overseas and about twice that for a good one made in the U.S. A good 3 hp VFD will run about $200-300.

You are right, a too small idler or incorrectly sized capacitor bank on a rotary phase converter's manufactured phase ("wild leg") can be a little out of phase or have a voltage out of spec. A properly set up and sized one will be fine for your tools. Rotary phase converters are expensive as they require a static converter to start the idler and a 3 phase idler motor of 2-3 times the rated horsepower of your tools. Unless you get a free idler somewhere, you are going to pay four figures for a usable-sized RPC. RPCs are mainly used when there are multiple 3 phase tools and frequently hard-wired into their own breaker panel, from which the circuits feeding the equipment emanate. Most RPCs I have seen people use are at least 15-20 hp.

In general, it's cheaper to replace a sub-2 hp 3 phase motor with a single-phase one, it's cheaper to get a VFD for a 3 or 5 hp motor, and then becomes generally cheaper to replace a 7.5 or 10 hp 3 phase motor with a single-phase one rather than buy a rotary phase converter or a giant VFD. A 7.5 or 10 hp single-phase motor new is a grand or a little more. Anything larger than 10 hp is going to be 3 phase only so you're stuck with a 20+ HP RPC or getting actual 3 phase service from your utility company.

4. Moving that equipment sounded not very fun. Picking up and carrying close to 3000 pounds is out of the realm of doable for the standard sized utility tractors. It would take a large-frame six-cylinder utility tractor weighing every bit of 15,000 pounds to do that very well. I've never used a tractor that size with a loader so it is just a guess based on what I have used that wasn't large enough. I know my Dad's ~10,000 pound cabbed Deere 5085 with filled tires couldn't do it. 2000 pounds, yes, but not 3000 pounds.

i saw a dewalt longarm at auction up my way a few months ago. went for dirt cheap. i would be interested in a nice *big* heavy duty radial arm myself (we have a craftsman right now) as they are useful but they really are not in demand and have almost zero resell value. the compound miter saws killed the market. still, the bigger saws have a nice purpose and are great for what they do best.

They certainly do. I would use it as a dedicated cutoff saw as I use a fair amount of reclaimed wood that is often a little too thick for my 10" cabinet saw to crosscut. I also hate to have to swap the dado stack out or move the perfectly dialed in rip fence just to make one lousy crosscut for something. I could get a SCMS to do that job but I've used them and not been nearly as impressed as with using even a mediocre Sears RAS. I'm just not a big fan of little lightweight tools using universal motors. Give me a stationary tool with an induction motor and I'm much happier.

i like oddities myself. things that are unique or interesting. i was not planning on picking up any machinery yet however you need to buy things when you see them or you may never get them.

Isn't that the truth. My issue is I never see much besides cheapo Home Depot level stuff, and most of it has a price tag of about new or it has obviously been left out in the front yard to rust for 10 years.

 

[ssddx]

update:

-painted top third of the drill including covers
-cleaned oil grooves on top four babbit bearings
-painted inside of step pulley

whats left?

-degrease & paint motor drive pulley
-degrease & paint belt guard
-clean top bit of quill / auto-feed shafts above top of drill
-install and tighten flat belt correctly
-find a single phase motor, mount to a plate and install shiv
-try it out!

hopefully i'll have it running later in the week.