VZW internal blacklist?

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Does anyone know if VZW maintains an internal blacklist of people who owe
money to Verizon (land line) or Verizon Busness Services?

I think my freind is getting the big ($1000) deposit excuse, because of an
old unpaid house phone bill.

VZW is say its his credit but we've gone over it and it's not that bad. He
has Gotten a mortgage, car loan, credit cards and other credit with the bad
credit VZW is talking about. Yesterday He applied for and got approval for
credit at Cingular, T-Mobile and Sprint, without a deposit.

I am realy curious about this.
 
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"Breezy" <suziq4you2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:V8zic.21659$aQ6.1320120@attbi_s51...
> Does anyone know if VZW maintains an internal blacklist of people who owe
> money to Verizon (land line) or Verizon Busness Services?
>
> I think my freind is getting the big ($1000) deposit excuse, because of an
> old unpaid house phone bill.
>
> VZW is say its his credit but we've gone over it and it's not that bad. He
> has Gotten a mortgage, car loan, credit cards and other credit with the
bad
> credit VZW is talking about. Yesterday He applied for and got approval for
> credit at Cingular, T-Mobile and Sprint, without a deposit.
>
> I am realy curious about this.
>
>

I would imagine they do. And unlike the credit bureaus, they can keep these
records and pursue the balance for as long as they like.
 
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Have you considered prepaid plans? How many minutes a month does your
friend think he will need?

JoshIII
upstate south carolina


"Breezy" <suziq4you2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:V8zic.21659$aQ6.1320120@attbi_s51...
> Does anyone know if VZW maintains an internal blacklist of people who owe
> money to Verizon (land line) or Verizon Busness Services?
>
> I think my freind is getting the big ($1000) deposit excuse, because of an
> old unpaid house phone bill.
>
> VZW is say its his credit but we've gone over it and it's not that bad. He
> has Gotten a mortgage, car loan, credit cards and other credit with the
bad
> credit VZW is talking about. Yesterday He applied for and got approval for
> credit at Cingular, T-Mobile and Sprint, without a deposit.
>
> I am realy curious about this.
>
>
 
G

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> "Breezy" <suziq4you2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:V8zic.21659$aQ6.1320120@attbi_s51...
> Does anyone know if VZW maintains an internal blacklist of people
> who owe money to Verizon (land line) or Verizon Busness Services?
>
> I think my freind is getting the big ($1000) deposit excuse, because
> of an old unpaid house phone bill.
>
> VZW is say its his credit but we've gone over it and it's not that
> bad. He has Gotten a mortgage, car loan, credit cards and other
> credit with the bad credit VZW is talking about. Yesterday He
> applied for and got approval for credit at Cingular, T-Mobile and
> Sprint, without a deposit.
>
> I am realy curious about this.

Don't know about checks, but on 1/1/2004 they changed things, and started
denying stuff if there was anything at all on your report, and started
pushing prepaid for those denied.
 
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"Peter Pan" <Marcs1102NOSPAM@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c6evsm$ac6f2$1@ID-190045.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> > "Breezy" <suziq4you2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:V8zic.21659$aQ6.1320120@attbi_s51...
> > Does anyone know if VZW maintains an internal blacklist of people
> > who owe money to Verizon (land line) or Verizon Busness Services?
> >
> > I think my freind is getting the big ($1000) deposit excuse, because
> > of an old unpaid house phone bill.
> >
> > VZW is say its his credit but we've gone over it and it's not that
> > bad. He has Gotten a mortgage, car loan, credit cards and other
> > credit with the bad credit VZW is talking about. Yesterday He
> > applied for and got approval for credit at Cingular, T-Mobile and
> > Sprint, without a deposit.
> >
> > I am realy curious about this.
>
> Don't know about checks, but on 1/1/2004 they changed things, and started
> denying stuff if there was anything at all on your report, and started
> pushing prepaid for those denied.
>
>
Are they asking for more deposits as well, or just denying all together?
 
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"Breezy" <suziq4you2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:GoEic.16353$0u6.2716550@attbi_s03
> "Peter Pan" <Marcs1102NOSPAM@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c6evsm$ac6f2$1@ID-190045.news.uni-berlin.de...
>>
>>> "Breezy" <suziq4you2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:V8zic.21659$aQ6.1320120@attbi_s51...
>>> Does anyone know if VZW maintains an internal blacklist of people
>>> who owe money to Verizon (land line) or Verizon Busness Services?
>>>
>>> I think my freind is getting the big ($1000) deposit excuse, because
>>> of an old unpaid house phone bill.
>>>
>>> VZW is say its his credit but we've gone over it and it's not that
>>> bad. He has Gotten a mortgage, car loan, credit cards and other
>>> credit with the bad credit VZW is talking about. Yesterday He
>>> applied for and got approval for credit at Cingular, T-Mobile and
>>> Sprint, without a deposit.
>>>
>>> I am realy curious about this.
>>
>> Don't know about checks, but on 1/1/2004 they changed things, and
>> started denying stuff if there was anything at all on your report,
>> and started pushing prepaid for those denied.
>>
>>
> Are they asking for more deposits as well, or just denying all
> together?

Actually both, The deny I was referring to was giving you an account with
any sort of blemish whatsoever. They do still take deposits, just deny you
deposit free status.
 
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"Josh III" <joshp51REMOVE@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c6esl0$b5ntg$1@ID-204582.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Have you considered prepaid plans? How many minutes a month does your
> friend think he will need?
>

He has already gone with Cingular. With no deposit.


We did seriously look at Prepay.
I estimated his bill would be double, if not triple.


http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/store/controller?item=prepayItem&action=viewPrepayOverview
 
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Breezy <suziq4you2@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Does anyone know if VZW maintains an internal blacklist of people who owe
> money to Verizon (land line) or Verizon Busness Services?
>
> I think my freind is getting the big ($1000) deposit excuse, because of an
> old unpaid house phone bill.
>
> VZW is say its his credit but we've gone over it and it's not that bad. He
> has Gotten a mortgage, car loan, credit cards and other credit with the bad
> credit VZW is talking about. Yesterday He applied for and got approval for
> credit at Cingular, T-Mobile and Sprint, without a deposit.
>
> I am realy curious about this.
>

If your friend has a lot of accounts that are young or a lot of accounts
that are nearly maxed out (or both) that is a big red flag for Verizon
and it lowers your FICO until it changes. I purchased a home and a car
in the same two month period and that showed two large accounts that
were young and had near 100% balance owed ... that caused a $400 request
for deposit when I talked with Verizon at that time. My score was in
reason, but they apparently weight these factors differently than just
the FICO.

--

Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
 
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Maybe if your friend paid his bills in full and on time, VZW wouldn't
have asked for a big deposit.

They're just making sure they aren't ripped off by a customer who
obviously can't pay his bill.



On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 19:23:33 GMT, "Breezy" <suziq4you2@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Does anyone know if VZW maintains an internal blacklist of people who owe
>money to Verizon (land line) or Verizon Busness Services?
>
>I think my freind is getting the big ($1000) deposit excuse, because of an
>old unpaid house phone bill.
>
>VZW is say its his credit but we've gone over it and it's not that bad. He
>has Gotten a mortgage, car loan, credit cards and other credit with the bad
>credit VZW is talking about. Yesterday He applied for and got approval for
>credit at Cingular, T-Mobile and Sprint, without a deposit.
>
>I am realy curious about this.
>
 
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I have to laugh, by your own admission you state:
>> but we've gone over it and it's not that bad.

Guess what, ever consider that it should be "good" instead of "not that
bad"?

Why not expend some energy and fix it, rather than expect people to ignore
faults and give you things?




> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 19:23:33 GMT, "Breezy" <suziq4you2@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know if VZW maintains an internal blacklist of people
>> who owe money to Verizon (land line) or Verizon Busness Services?
>>
>> I think my freind is getting the big ($1000) deposit excuse, because
>> of an old unpaid house phone bill.
>>
>> VZW is say its his credit but we've gone over it and it's not that
>> bad. He has Gotten a mortgage, car loan, credit cards and other
>> credit with the bad credit VZW is talking about. Yesterday He
>> applied for and got approval for credit at Cingular, T-Mobile and
>> Sprint, without a deposit.
>>
>> I am realy curious about this.
 

gerry

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[original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 19:23:33 GMT, "Breezy" <suziq4you2@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Does anyone know if VZW maintains an internal blacklist of people who owe
>money to Verizon (land line) or Verizon Busness Services?
>
>I think my freind is getting the big ($1000) deposit excuse, because of an
>old unpaid house phone bill.
>

If that is the case, he can fix it by paying the "old unpaid house phone
bill" promptly after he became aware of it.

My son had a funny with only with a low value account. He had been in the
military and once, when transferred, there was a ~$35 electric bill he was
unaware of after he was transferred. He has the best rate on many credit
cards (7.9%), mortgage... One outfit wouldn't give him $!000 store credit.

I pursued his credit report, discovered the bill, paid it, showed the
store, got his credit! (0% financing offer). The store accepted the
resolution.

It really pays to fix small stuff!

gerry

--

Personal home page - http://gogood.com

gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots
 
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"Scott Stephenson" <scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:rYWdnTnew_SUVhfdRVn_iw@adelphia.com...
<snip>
> I would imagine they do. And unlike the credit bureaus, they can
keep these
> records and pursue the balance for as long as they like.
>
>

No they are bound by the same statute of limitations on the
collections of debts depending on your state of residence. Most are 6
years and only the original creditor can initiate the collections in
that time frame. They must show diligence in trying to collect and if
they let it sit for over that time they can get scratch.

I had a friend at work that left an apartment and never got the
electric bill from his last month at the old place sent to the new
address even though he had gas and electric at it. What the gas
company did was turn it over to their lawyers and they got a judgment
which is good for 10 years, even though he never knew it until he
bought his home and then since the ten years were not up or not
renewed he was forced to pay the original bill plus interest. He paid
almost $1,300.00 for $200 bill owed. (Lawyers fees were tacked on and
poundage etc.) he was livid.

The company can keep the internal record of the amount owed but can do
squat unless they tried to collect within that time span.

Elector
 
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"Elector" <elector@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:ILOic.96410$M3.73501@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>
> "Scott Stephenson" <scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:rYWdnTnew_SUVhfdRVn_iw@adelphia.com...
> <snip>
> > I would imagine they do. And unlike the credit bureaus, they can
> keep these
> > records and pursue the balance for as long as they like.
> >
> >
>
> No they are bound by the same statute of limitations on the
> collections of debts depending on your state of residence. Most are 6
> years and only the original creditor can initiate the collections in
> that time frame. They must show diligence in trying to collect and if
> they let it sit for over that time they can get scratch.
>
> I had a friend at work that left an apartment and never got the
> electric bill from his last month at the old place sent to the new
> address even though he had gas and electric at it. What the gas
> company did was turn it over to their lawyers and they got a judgment
> which is good for 10 years, even though he never knew it until he
> bought his home and then since the ten years were not up or not
> renewed he was forced to pay the original bill plus interest. He paid
> almost $1,300.00 for $200 bill owed. (Lawyers fees were tacked on and
> poundage etc.) he was livid.
>
> The company can keep the internal record of the amount owed but can do
> squat unless they tried to collect within that time span.
>

But all they had to do was try to collect the the amount owed (your own
words). Sending a bill or letter asking for payment satisfies that
requirement in all jurisdictions. However, they can refuse service no
matter the time frame.
 
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gerry wrote:
>
> [original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 19:23:33 GMT, "Breezy" <suziq4you2@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Does anyone know if VZW maintains an internal blacklist of people who owe
> >money to Verizon (land line) or Verizon Busness Services?
> >
> >I think my freind is getting the big ($1000) deposit excuse, because of an
> >old unpaid house phone bill.
> >
>
> If that is the case, he can fix it by paying the "old unpaid house phone
> bill" promptly after he became aware of it.
>
> My son had a funny with only with a low value account. He had been in the
> military and once, when transferred, there was a ~$35 electric bill he was
> unaware of after he was transferred. He has the best rate on many credit
> cards (7.9%), mortgage... One outfit wouldn't give him $!000 store credit.
>
> I pursued his credit report, discovered the bill, paid it, showed the
> store, got his credit! (0% financing offer). The store accepted the
> resolution.
>
> It really pays to fix small stuff!

Especially if you're asking for "phone credit" after a delinquent,
or unpaid, phone bill!

Larry
 
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Just found out that No, there is no internal blacklist for VZW. They are a
separate business unit over at Verizon. Separate everthing. They do not
"cross-reference" customer list with the LL business unit with the Wireless
unit.

They go by score and "certain" derog items on the CRA report they pull, and
age of credit too. They use FICO modeling in addition to an internal scoring
system to assess risk.

Special Thanks to *dg0474* for this info
 
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"Scott Stephenson" <scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:eek:IidnQqSVNN9iBHdRVn-uQ@adelphia.com...
<snip>
> But all they had to do was try to collect the the amount owed (your
own
> words). Sending a bill or letter asking for payment satisfies that
> requirement in all jurisdictions. However, they can refuse service
no
> matter the time frame.
>
>

Not after the six years are up. it is considered a dead or
uncollectible account. (In New York). Diligence in the time frame
would be the key here.

If they had a judgment still on record then that would have sufficed
as well.

Elector
 
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"Elector" <elector@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:YaVic.98490$M3.6314@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>
> "Scott Stephenson" <scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:eek:IidnQqSVNN9iBHdRVn-uQ@adelphia.com...
> <snip>
> > But all they had to do was try to collect the the amount owed (your
> own
> > words). Sending a bill or letter asking for payment satisfies that
> > requirement in all jurisdictions. However, they can refuse service
> no
> > matter the time frame.
> >
> >
>
> Not after the six years are up. it is considered a dead or
> uncollectible account. (In New York). Diligence in the time frame
> would be the key here.
>
> If they had a judgment still on record then that would have sufficed
> as well.
>

Whatever the case, even a dead account with them would remain on their
books, and they are within their rights to refuse service or demand a high
deposit for a new account in this case.

One thing that bothers me here- why not pay your bills? There doesn't seem
to be a whole lot of remorse over the fact that Verizon was apparently
stiffed on a bill some years back, but there appears to be some confusion
and outrage because it may be causing some difficulties in getting service
now. Go figure.
 
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Elector wrote:
> "Scott Stephenson" <scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:eek:IidnQqSVNN9iBHdRVn-uQ@adelphia.com...
> <snip>
>> But all they had to do was try to collect the the amount owed (your
>> own words). Sending a bill or letter asking for payment satisfies
>> that requirement in all jurisdictions. However, they can refuse
>> service no matter the time frame.
>>
>>
>
> Not after the six years are up. it is considered a dead or
> uncollectible account. (In New York). Diligence in the time frame
> would be the key here.
>
> If they had a judgment still on record then that would have sufficed
> as well.

So you're saying they can't arbitrarily require a deposit as
long as they are not discriminating? Lets assume he was
belligerent in the store and the sales person just didn't
like that. Would it be illegal to require a deposit?

-Quick

-Quick
 
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"Quick" <Dave_horwitz@NOSPAMsbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:bYYic.1414$Fs3.184@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com...
<snip>
> So you're saying they can't arbitrarily require a deposit as
> long as they are not discriminating? Lets assume he was
> belligerent in the store and the sales person just didn't
> like that. Would it be illegal to require a deposit?
>
> -Quick
>
> -Quick
>
>

In New York and I am not sure about elsewhere it would be
discriminatory practices. They (insert company here) have to base
their credit decisions on merit and not frivolity. I can however check
with my agency attorneys as to the law in this matter, he (insert
customer here) would have to prove that was the basis of the denial.
Sort of a catch 22.

Elector
 
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"Scott Stephenson" <scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:0fudnXapp8tT_xHd4p2dnA@adelphia.com...
<Snip>
> Whatever the case, even a dead account with them would remain on
their
> books, and they are within their rights to refuse service or demand
a high
> deposit for a new account in this case.
>
> One thing that bothers me here- why not pay your bills? There
doesn't seem
> to be a whole lot of remorse over the fact that Verizon was
apparently
> stiffed on a bill some years back, but there appears to be some
confusion
> and outrage because it may be causing some difficulties in getting
service
> now. Go figure.
>
>

Scott, I have empathy for folks that cannot pay their bills for one
reason or another. I don't think anyone wants to fall behind. Lets
also understand that the credit lenders are a good part of the blame
here.

The poor consumer has to have the latest TV or car or Home or home
appliance and the lenders let the consumer have it since its good for
the economy. Jobs and people being happy create more credit and more
need for those goods. Although I did not take this course in college I
am sure there is a real name for what is happening. Then all of a
sudden Japan, China and other countries can make these goods better,
folks lose their jobs, cannot afford their rent, their credit card
bills are not paid or late in paying (Then you get the interest rate
increased for being late, oh not just that card but now all the
companies want to do it) resulting in defaults. Defaults result in
higher rates for credit and more of credit guideline to obtain credit.
Cause and effect.

In bankruptcy cases the number one reason was listed economic loss due
to job, home, marriage or even medical bills. All of which can happen
to anyone of us.
But when a person tries to get back on their feet the list of credit
grantors are small and predatory in nature. 40% in interest, even loan
sharks don't go that high.
My father always said that its the defaults that cause the higher
rates and make it harder for new credit to be granted. That may be
true but have some understanding in why these events happen. Oh and I
believe $1,000.00 on each account is outlandish.

Elector
 
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"Elector" <elector@my-deja.com> wrote
>
> "Scott Stephenson" <scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:0fudnXapp8tT_xHd4p2dnA@adelphia.com...
> <Snip>
> > Whatever the case, even a dead account with them would remain on
> their
> > books, and they are within their rights to refuse service or demand
> a high
> > deposit for a new account in this case.
> >
> > One thing that bothers me here- why not pay your bills? There
> doesn't seem
> > to be a whole lot of remorse over the fact that Verizon was
> apparently
> > stiffed on a bill some years back, but there appears to be some
> confusion
> > and outrage because it may be causing some difficulties in getting
> service
> > now. Go figure.
> >
> >
>
> Scott, I have empathy for folks that cannot pay their bills for one
> reason or another. I don't think anyone wants to fall behind. Lets
> also understand that the credit lenders are a good part of the blame
> here.
>
> The poor consumer has to have the latest TV or car or Home or home
> appliance and the lenders let the consumer have it since its good for
> the economy. Jobs and people being happy create more credit and more
> need for those goods. Although I did not take this course in college I
> am sure there is a real name for what is happening. Then all of a
> sudden Japan, China and other countries can make these goods better,
> folks lose their jobs, cannot afford their rent, their credit card
> bills are not paid or late in paying (Then you get the interest rate
> increased for being late, oh not just that card but now all the
> companies want to do it) resulting in defaults. Defaults result in
> higher rates for credit and more of credit guideline to obtain credit.
> Cause and effect.
>
> In bankruptcy cases the number one reason was listed economic loss due
> to job, home, marriage or even medical bills. All of which can happen
> to anyone of us.
> But when a person tries to get back on their feet the list of credit
> grantors are small and predatory in nature. 40% in interest, even loan
> sharks don't go that high.
> My father always said that its the defaults that cause the higher
> rates and make it harder for new credit to be granted. That may be
> true but have some understanding in why these events happen. Oh and I
> believe $1,000.00 on each account is outlandish.

Yes we can all sympathize with people in those positions. Then there
are those where it may look like this sort of situation but is actually
greatly caused by the person themself and could have been prevented
(yes, family on the wife's side is an example :)). Finally there are those
who are flat irresponsible. How do you tell?

It's a business. It's based on probabilities. There is a large sample size
to derive the statistics from. Most lenders are not a charitible
organizations.
Many are public companies and have an obligation to shareholders to
make/maximize profits.

I take it you are in the legal business. Does your firm use a sliding
scale including taking cases for free in like circumstances? If so,
what percentage? and does this cause you to charge the paying
clients more?

-Quick
 
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"Quick" <dhorwitz@NOSPAMcisco.com> wrote in message
news:1082997199.762674@sj-nntpcache-5...
<snip>
> I take it you are in the legal business. Does your firm use a sliding
> scale including taking cases for free in like circumstances? If so,
> what percentage? and does this cause you to charge the paying
> clients more?
>
> -Quick
>
>

No I work for a public agency. We have lawyers on staff. However many times
when you encounter the situation you are inquiring about (Sliding fee
schedules) the law firms make the money on actual work performed and not in
lending or giving credit. This is clearly not the same as a credit card
issuer or store.

Many credit card issuers depend solely on the credit reporting agency and
the information supplied at time of request from the consumer. When that
same customer falls on hard times the card and stores now have this addendum
on the credit agreement that states they can raise your interest rate up
very high if you fail to make payments to them or your other creditors.
However I don't see where this is not motivated by nothing but greed.

I once had a credit card with a fixed 9% and when the card company was taken
over by another card company they sent a letter stating that all rates will
now be 12% and I called and pointed out via one of the agency attorneys that
I had a legal and binding contract and when they bought out the other they
had no legal right to raise my interest rates.

They lowered it back to 9% for awhile and then they found out how to raise
them legally and I called and canceled the card and paid it off at 9%. Which
I was told I could do. It is the credit issuers that are really causing
these defaults and its due to greed. Take into consideration that checking
and savings accounts are giving 1-4% for interest on your money but they are
charging 23-35% for credit cards. Makes you wonder huh?

Elector
 
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Elector wrote:
> "Quick" <dhorwitz@NOSPAMcisco.com> wrote in message
> news:1082997199.762674@sj-nntpcache-5...
> <snip>
>
> No I work for a public agency. We have lawyers on staff. However many
> times when you encounter the situation you are inquiring about
> (Sliding fee schedules) the law firms make the money on actual work
> performed and not in lending or giving credit. This is clearly not
> the same as a credit card issuer or store.

True, but I think some analogies can be drawn. You negotiate an
hourly wage for representation. Some time into the case you lose
your job and can't pay the agreed upon rate...

I'm not sure that raising the rate on default is that much of an issue.
If you can't make the original payments it doesn't matter that the
subsequent rate is increased. I suspect it's a very small percentage
that miss or forget a few payments and then cannot handle the
increased rate. This usually occurs long after people have dug
themselves past the debt load they can afford. I also think it's
become more of a practice for people to live on the edge without
a safety net. Many don't factor in considerations like "what if I
get laid off in the near future?", "what if I incur significant medical
expenses?", etc., when deciding to incur significant debt. I believe
this is part of fiscal responsibility. Rarely is it the case that the
problem debt was originally incurred due to a necessity.

I see the rate jack as a deterrent and yes, also a stab at getting
whats left when it looks like there is a problem. On the other
hand, many CC issuers will work with you with plans like closing
your account and letting you pay at a reduced rate over a longer
period to time. No, it may not completely save your credit rating
but can save your home and/or declaring bankruptcy.

>
> Many credit card issuers depend solely on the credit reporting agency
> and the information supplied at time of request from the consumer.
> When that same customer falls on hard times the card and stores now
> have this addendum on the credit agreement that states they can raise
> your interest rate up very high if you fail to make payments to them
> or your other creditors. However I don't see where this is not
> motivated by nothing but greed.

See above. It's in the agreement and there is no excuse for
not *considering* it prior to incuring a debt.

> They lowered it back to 9% for awhile and then they found out how to
> raise them legally and I called and canceled the card and paid it off
> at 9%.

Yes, I've often been notified that the rate would be changing and given
the option to continue and accept the new rate or quit using the account
and pay off the existing balance under the original terms. Seems fair to
me.

> Which I was told I could do. It is the credit issuers that are
> really causing these defaults and its due to greed. Take into
> consideration that checking and savings accounts are giving 1-4% for
> interest on your money but they are charging 23-35% for credit cards.
> Makes you wonder huh?

About what? That a business is making a profit? Do you feel that
businesses should have a profit cap imposed upon them? Yes, there
are usury(sp?) laws but this is out in the open and apparently legal.
Yes, some of the marketing and teasers are aimed at the uninformed
but McDonalds does some of the same right?

You seem to be equating the lenders to drug dealers offering the
"first ones are free" to get the unsuspecting hooked on credit.

-Quick
 
G

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"Elector" <elector@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:eA5jc.105128$M3.34502@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>

> >
> >
>
> Scott, I have empathy for folks that cannot pay their bills for one
> reason or another. I don't think anyone wants to fall behind. Lets
> also understand that the credit lenders are a good part of the blame
> here.

And I understand that people do come into hard times- been there, done that.
It wasn't my creditors' fault- I failed to live up to my end of the bargain.
And those that took time to make whole showed up on my credit report. I
paid a price for this, and don't blame anyone but myself- I overextended.

>
> The poor consumer has to have the latest TV or car or Home or home
> appliance and the lenders let the consumer have it since its good for
> the economy.

No- the poor consumer WANTS the latest new things, and will live beyond
their means to get it. There is no 'has to have'. Those that "have to
have" the latest are more concerned with image than finances.

>Jobs and people being happy create more credit and more
> need for those goods.

I still contend that 'need' and 'desire' are not the same thing.

>Although I did not take this course in college I
> am sure there is a real name for what is happening. Then all of a
> sudden Japan, China and other countries can make these goods better,
> folks lose their jobs, cannot afford their rent, their credit card
> bills are not paid or late in paying (Then you get the interest rate
> increased for being late, oh not just that card but now all the
> companies want to do it) resulting in defaults. Defaults result in
> higher rates for credit and more of credit guideline to obtain credit.
> Cause and effect.

Which is a perfect reason why people should try to live within their means.
A new car is not a necessity when a used car at less than half the price
will function just as well. And when people don't live within their means,
there are consequences that occur when the whole house of cards come
tumbling down. People need to accept these consequences. Bankruptcy does
not wipe out the actions that created it, only the debt. And with the
numbers going higher and higher every year, there is going to be a growing
reluctance by any company to treat someone with a bankruptcy the same as
they would a high credit score customer, and they are going to look at past
financial performance closer than they have in the past. If you have had
problems in the past, they are going to come back to haunt you- they did for
me for quite a while.

>
> In bankruptcy cases the number one reason was listed economic loss due
> to job, home, marriage or even medical bills. All of which can happen
> to anyone of us.
> But when a person tries to get back on their feet the list of credit
> grantors are small and predatory in nature. 40% in interest, even loan
> sharks don't go that high.
> My father always said that its the defaults that cause the higher
> rates and make it harder for new credit to be granted. That may be
> true but have some understanding in why these events happen. Oh and I
> believe $1,000.00 on each account is outlandish.

Your father was right, and I don't mean to sound as cold as all of this
comes across. There are a few things to consider here- the last time I
looked, Verizon's bad debt writeoff was a significant portion of revenue,
and not in line with many other carriers. Maybe they have tightened up
their postpay requirements. But from a business perspective, how many times
do they have to get burned before they take action to prevent it?
 
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Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Quick" <dhorwitz@NOSPAMcisco.com> wrote in message
news:1083006231.47526@sj-nntpcache-3...
> Elector wrote:
> > "Quick" <dhorwitz@NOSPAMcisco.com> wrote in message
> > news:1082997199.762674@sj-nntpcache-5...
> > <snip>
> >
> > No I work for a public agency. We have lawyers on staff. However
many
> > times when you encounter the situation you are inquiring about
> > (Sliding fee schedules) the law firms make the money on actual
work
> > performed and not in lending or giving credit. This is clearly not
> > the same as a credit card issuer or store.
>
> True, but I think some analogies can be drawn. You negotiate an
> hourly wage for representation. Some time into the case you lose
> your job and can't pay the agreed upon rate...
>

[See 1 Below]

> I'm not sure that raising the rate on default is that much of an
issue.
> If you can't make the original payments it doesn't matter that the
> subsequent rate is increased. I suspect it's a very small
percentage
> that miss or forget a few payments and then cannot handle the
> increased rate. This usually occurs long after people have dug
> themselves past the debt load they can afford. I also think it's
> become more of a practice for people to live on the edge without
> a safety net. Many don't factor in considerations like "what if I
> get laid off in the near future?", "what if I incur significant
medical
> expenses?", etc., when deciding to incur significant debt. I believe
> this is part of fiscal responsibility. Rarely is it the case that
the
> problem debt was originally incurred due to a necessity.
>

[See 2 Below]

> I see the rate jack as a deterrent and yes, also a stab at getting
> whats left when it looks like there is a problem. On the other
> hand, many CC issuers will work with you with plans like closing
> your account and letting you pay at a reduced rate over a longer
> period to time. No, it may not completely save your credit rating
> but can save your home and/or declaring bankruptcy.
>
> >
> > Many credit card issuers depend solely on the credit reporting
agency
> > and the information supplied at time of request from the consumer.
> > When that same customer falls on hard times the card and stores
now
> > have this addendum on the credit agreement that states they can
raise
> > your interest rate up very high if you fail to make payments to
them
> > or your other creditors. However I don't see where this is not
> > motivated by nothing but greed.
>
> See above. It's in the agreement and there is no excuse for
> not *considering* it prior to incuring a debt.
>

[See 2 Below]

<snip>
> > Which I was told I could do. It is the credit issuers that are
> > really causing these defaults and its due to greed. Take into
> > consideration that checking and savings accounts are giving 1-4%
for
> > interest on your money but they are charging 23-35% for credit
cards.
> > Makes you wonder huh?
>
> About what? That a business is making a profit? Do you feel that
> businesses should have a profit cap imposed upon them? Yes, there
> are usury(sp?) laws but this is out in the open and apparently
legal.
> Yes, some of the marketing and teasers are aimed at the uninformed
> but McDonalds does some of the same right?
>
[See 3 below]

> You seem to be equating the lenders to drug dealers offering the
> "first ones are free" to get the unsuspecting hooked on credit.
>
> -Quick
>
>

[1] If you were to make an agreement for fees paid for services this
is not the same as fees paid for extension of credit and as such is
not for this discussion. If you lets say pay your attorney or your
contractor and then run out of money. When the money ends the service
of legal advice and your home being built ends.

[2] In a consumer retail contract for credit the conditions are
spelled out. If you default the costs to you for collection are borne
by you. They can ask for the cards back, they can sue you etc. etc.
etc. all which are clearly spelled out. So there are no surprises.
Bankruptcy is a means for an end. Many bankruptcy judges comment when
they issue a relief judgment that when creditor make noises they
usually get no sympathy from those judges. In stead they get you
caused your own problems via the continued extension of credit, giving
a higher limit, making deals for their payments etc. It is borne by
many a release. The creditors also like to try and get any money they
can by any means. Look at the poor family man that had hardship and
tries to work things out and stay afloat the card company then goes on
a collection frenzy. Your other creditors join in because they see you
heading down the river, add more grief on the guy or gal that is
trying to pay the debt and wham now they are in Bankruptcy Chapter 7.
And the cycle starts all over again.

[3] If its ok to have the banks and lenders making these huge profits
then why is it not ok to give higher interest rates for the use of the
depositors money? The federal reserve lowered interest rates and yet
banks and credit lenders are raising these very same rates because of
greed. And yeah it would be like a drug dealer since they give you a
taste then give you more and more until your at the edge and
wham..Look what happens. In the cell phone department the costs
associated in defaults is mainly in fraud and theft loses. If you owe
a $40 cell phone invoice for a gazillion free minutes plus long
distance included the choice is to simply turn off the phone and lose
$40 and not $40,000.00 from a customer. And how many customers owe
huge amounts?

Scott I noticed your reply and in many cases folks in or out of a
bankruptcy are also good candidates for credit since they cannot use
that protection for many a years and the credit lenders know it. So I
don't feel sorry for them.

Elector