Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (
More info?)
Twinge wrote:
> roy axenov wrote:
>> Marcin Oseka wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Just found one yesterday, playing my high elven
>>> archer. I've been playing since gamma 8, just one win,
>>> with the same race class combo (the character ate all
>>> the bugs of bugville).
>>
>> Playing HE archers is almost like cheating
🙂 The guys
>> are awesome.
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>>> The gods gave me Thunderstroke - is it any useful?
>>
>>
>> Yeah. You could give it to the demented ratling. Or you
>> could sac it. Or, if you would like five or ten
>> thousand gps, - you could sell it. Otherwise, it's too
>> much of a pain in the neck to use the thing.
>
> Hate. Thunderstroke. So. Much.
It is absolutely useless since it doesn't return.
Furthermore it doesn't have any slaying powers to justify
it's exisistence. The bundle of 12 winged quarrels of
slaying in Bugville are just as lethal and at least there
are enough to finish the foe and reclaim them.
You mean to say you crowned? Why on earth that. It'll
close all options for a U*E. Or was it a pre-crown?
>>> [WoWi (6) found -- Big Plans!]
>>
>>
>>> 1) aols, 2) 7lb,
>>
>>
>> Now who would argue about those two?
>
> Me! Argue Argue Argue!
1) AoLS (if not found)
2) 7LB (if not found)
3) GoGS (if not found)
4) As Archer you have Concentration so Food Preservation
(race dependant).
Save the last for weirdness. SoD and boar sculls may be
worth a wish later in the game to keep options open. Rings
of Ice and somesuch can also be hard finds.
>>> 3)rings of ice,
>>
>>
>> Do you have any fireproof blankets? ToEF is rather
>> painful if you have RoIs but not blankets. Even two
>> blessed ones don't stop the equipment destruction
>> completely.
>
> This also depends on some other factors... does he have
> a good melee weapon (artifact most likely) with some
> skill in it? If so, rings of ice aren't nearly as
> important as they might be if he _needs_ to use missles
> to kill anything.
The ToEF can be a virtual PITA without a ring of ice.
Expect corruption en masse and have a wand for stunning
the big guy. He can hit for a ton of damage in melee.
>>> 4) red dragon scale armour,
>>
>>
>> *bzzzzt* Why, oh why?! There are so many excellent
>> things you could wish for. GoGS. SoCRs. Damn, fletchery
>> sets, if you're really missile heavy. You could get
>> three or four, and the number of charges averages at
>> about five. That's a lot of missiles with Fletchery 100
>> and that archer special power.
>
> Slightly off topic, but relevant -- how to fletch: Don't
> fletch at all until you're past level 18; you'll make
> 50% more ammo then. Always fletch logs, not wooden
> sticks (logs give you about 3 times more ammo), if at
> all possible (animated forest). Also, the most important
> factor is the B/U/C status of the wood you're working
> with (the logs) -- the status of the fletchery set
> doesn't seem to matter at all. You can expect to average
> a whopping 85 arrows per blessed log you fletch with a
> level 18+ archer. Using a wish you'll average about 18
> charges worth of fletchery, so that's 1500 arrows!
> (About half as many quarrels; half your porudction again
> if you're using uncursed logs instead of blessed) If you
> can get the logs and bless them (another time where
> using the repair trick might be good, 2 scrolls of
> repair or 18+ potions of holy water) then this isn't a
> terrible idea. If you get lucky you'll pull a nice beefy
> stack of slaying ammo too, (just 'slaying' - they have a
> slaying effect on _everything_. you can't create ammo of
> foo slaying with fletchery.) or maybe penetration.
>
> Fletchery Sets and arrows/quarrels aren't really so rare
> that I think it'd be worth the wish, personally (circle
> a room and let a kobold/raider/barbarian start giving
> you some if you need to), but if you do fletch make sure
> you do it right =)
However Fletchery sets seems to pop up with far higher
frequency than writing sets. I would definately go for
writing sets and give hoots about mana until I can restore
it (Nuuraghs corpse + Mana Orb + White Unicorn). A wish
there will net you app. 10-15 scrolls of your own choice.
Education. Chaos res. You name it.
>> Aww c'mon. Good armor is not THAT bad a wish. It really
>> depends on the point in the game though. Sure you'll be
>> drowning in armor by the end of the game... if you get
>> there. Good armor will HELP you get there.
>>
>> That said, plain old eternium plate mail would still be
>> a better wish... one dungeon, however feared, truly
>> doth not a whole game make, and the more general
>> benefits of eternium plate mail will help more
>> generally than RDSM.
>
> It's not a completely terrible wish, but it shouldn't be
> needed. You might also consider tower eternium shields
> too -- dual-weilded shields for an archer are a good
> idea since you can still fire your bow. Two Good Shields
> + Shield Skill = 50+ DV!
>
>> You could also save a wish for... something... you
>> might really want later. I dunno. Scrolls of danger?
>> potions of uselessness? Something like that.
>
> Yeah, I'd suggest saving at least 1 or 2 for
> emergencies.
Once you have a pair of 7LB, means of dooming and are past
level 25 you'll be walking knee high in eternium plate
mails if you go wilderness scumming. Just take the
entourage, quickling and ogre encounters. And the Hydras
and Black Dragons (equipment piles) if you go into swamps
(takes a bit more time than hunting on the assasin-pyramid
road). Naturally ogres are for those with a ring of
weakness (may also be worth a wish). If I had to burn a
wish on armor it would be a crown. Possibly lightning for
the extra speed. Depends on the situation. Crown of Fire
rather than red dragon scale for sure. Once the scale is
ruined the fire immunity is gone. With a crown it's there
when you need it.
>>> 5) a decent bow
>>
>>
>> *BZZZZZT!* You gotta be kidding! Even if you can wish
>> for 'of hunting' or 'of accuracy' it's simply not worth
>> it. Oh, forget it, forget it please! Better save that
>> wish for later!
>
> Agreed. Don't wish for this; hunting and accuracy bows
> aren't _that_ rare, and don't even help that much
> anyway. You cannot wish for, say, a brutal longbow of
> devesation
😉
No way you should wish for a bow. They are easily
destroyed and easy to find.
>>> 6) (final wrench) will be kept for later, because I
>>> would like to try the moloch method of gaining
>>> experience. What do you think?
>>
>>
>> Now that's very wise. Tried it, loved it - and archers
>> defnitely *need* it - their lvl 50 power is simply too
>> awesome to miss on emperor moloch if you have a wish to
>> spare. And they don't have a lot of trouble with those
>> things.
>>
>
> Do boomerangs hit them both going and returning?
😉
If you can manage Greater Molochs it would be worth the
wish right now. You need blessed demon slayers (plenty),
7LB and good marks in the missile device of choice and
safe means of moving about (spell: Controlled Teleport).
As mentioned above regarding wilderness and fletching
getting past certain levels will open up new options to
you.
>>> 2. How early in terms of experience can the moloch
>>> method be safely applied?
>>
>>
>> Tried it with a HE archer around Clvl 30. Worked well.
>> (Of course, you'd need 7LBs, teleportation+control and
>> a LOT of ammo).
>>
>
> Man, every idea I've come up with that I think is so
> unique and original has actually been done before =) I
> thought I was a genius when I figured out you might be
> able to make infinate wishes with potions of exchange
> and rings a few months ago ;O
>
> When I was playing around wishing for the emperor moloch
> with my save-scummed archer, I was able to take them out
> well in melee with Executor (demon slayer), but if you
> melee you have to be very careful and can't safely slow
> yourself down for the experience boost. I'd suggest
> being at least level 25-30, and probably only that low
> if you are really buff.
It depends. If you can "spare" either Terinyo or HMV there
is a neat little island for you to use. It blocks some
options if Khelly is in Terinyo and you have not satisfied
the old crone yet.
>>> 3. Why is it better to cast slow-monster on oneself?
>>
>>
>> Your experience gains depend on your speed. The lower
>> your speed, the more xp you get. But I wouldn't
>> recommend that unless you Sp already went through the
>> roof (that is, you've cleared the BUGCAV or the
>> quickling tree). You definitely don't want greater
>> molochs in melee range. A single crit can be instakill.
>
> Test how much you'll be slowed down beforehand. Greater
> Molochs usually have a speed around 80 IIRC, so you
> don't want to go very far below that (even with SLB and
> archer's ultra-fast-shot(TM))
Two things.
1) The amount of experience is dependent on you current
XP. Not worth it for a fire beetle, but definately worth
considering before planting the final arrow of dragon
slaying into the hide of the water dragon or karmic wyrm.
2) The amount of speed you get from corpses are dependant
on your speed. IIRC you are guaranteed full increase with
speed below 120. With Slow Monster, an armor of sloth and
boots of the slow shuffle (also wish-worthy in this
regard) you can be a 300 speed rocket.
>>> 4. Are arrows of demon slaying absolutely essential?
>>
>>
>> Nope. Actually, penetrators worked better for me. But
>> even absolutely ordinary blessed arrows (+0, 1d6)
>> worked ok. (Archers get so much bonuses on their
>> missiles it's ridiculous.)
>
> Just remember to Beserk when firing (having tactics
> skill at 100 too preferably) as long as they aren't next
> to you.
Arrows of slaying (can be fletched through a bit of luck -
works better on higher levels), arrows of penetration (can
likewise be fletched, also level dep.), arrows of demon
slaying and arrows of humaniod slaying (yep GM's are
humanoids) all cause pain. Everything else will bounce off
or cause too little damage to counter regeneration.
Besides you DON'T have time and space after a wish for
Emperor Moloch.
Remember to bless all the missiles for that 50% extra
damage.
>>> 5. Can I do it anywhere in the wilderness?
>>
>>
>> Yep. Just enter a wilderness square and wish for an
>> emperor moloch. Just watch out for those greater
>> molochs picking up their fallen comrades' hulking
>> armours. Those are absolutely priority targets!
>> Luckily, it takes some time for them to equip the
>> thing, so you can usually kill them before that.
>>
>> If you don't manage to catch them with their pants (um,
>> hulking armours) down - teleport away, and leave the
>> wilderness. It's a pity to waste so much potential xp,
>> but uber-molochs are THE killing machines of the game.
>> TB really should do something about the bug.
>
>
> You will summon 34 (possibly 35) greater molochs when
> you executre this wish. They will be fairly spread out,
> but not across the entire level. You probably want to do
> it from one side of the wilderness square so you can
> teleport to the other side to get away/get a safe shot.
> Go into coward before you teleport in case there's a GM
> next to or on your teleport spot.
>
> I'll also point out, though you probably already know,
> to be sure to wish for multiples of anything you do wish
> for. fletchery set*s*, *pairs* of seven league boots,
> etc.
Re-enter a swmap hex until an island is generated in the
corners
. Just thought of that. If it is at all
possible. Like this
"=
==
>> Writing sets. Scrolls of education. Skills themselves.
>> (Three of my favorite "underdog" wishes.)
>
> Skills can certainly be nice. The worthwhile ones to
> wish for being concentration, food preservation, mining,
> find weakness, dodge, courage, or necromancy... maybe
> gemology or backstabbing.
All good picks. Though Concentration in class skill for
Archers and Necromancy have less usefulness without Food
pres. Besides you can only make zombies, so it'll
definately have to be an SMC quickling royalty zombie.
Also Herbalism might be an option. Occationally it can be
useful to have if herb bushes are sparse. He ought to have
backstabbing covered by now.
> You'll pull about 10-11 charges from wishing for magic
> writing sets, though anything good you write will cause
> some potential stat loss: Item creation: Base * 4
> Increase Melee Accuracy/Damage: Base * 5
> Protection/Defense: Base * 6
> Education: Base * 7
> Chaos Resist: Base * 10
> (I haven't really yet tried to work out the specifics,
> but those are the ones that will be most likely to cause
> any stat loss and thier relative difficulty)
>
> If I'm recalling correctly you only lose Mana, so if you
> have some mana boosters (pendant of mana, mana orb,
> etc.) then you can probably write 3 wishes worth of
> education or chaos resistance for the cost of a single
> wish (and some mana you can regain later, possibly by
> exchanging stats)
... or using the unicorn as mentioned above. I would
certainly wish for writing sets.
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