So I believe the p4 owner total is 1, fugger claims he has two. To the people defending the p4, if it's so good, why don't you have one? If it's so good, why has only one person responded and confessing ownership? hmm?
Wait as long as you can before you have to buy.
http://www.siliconstrategies.com/story/OEG20010420S0066
http://www.siliconstrategies.com/story/OEG20010420S0066
Now, I don't know if I'd go so far as to call a P4 buyer stupid, but for most, it really doesn't seem like a logical descision right now. Unless you're one of the select individuals who can take advantage of the few applications in which a P4 excels, I'd have to argue that going with the blue guys is a pretty poor choice. Intel and Rambus are fast becoming the champion of false promisses and exagerated claims, in the tech world. Makes me think back to an article entitled "Why we don't trust Rambus" For the average computer user, if you look at the marketing numbers, wow, Intel now has 367 mhz lead over AMD, perefect, you buy Intel if that's all that matters to you, but then again, I have yet to see any real world benchmarks that give even the 1.7 a clear lead over AMD. So despite the price gap, maybe you do go with a P4, because future applications will be able to take advantage of the big numbers... then again, maybe you want to wait until the real P4 chipsets start to immerge, once Intel has lined their pockets by meeting their rambus quotas.
Personally, with T-Birds even cheaper still than the PIII, I've joined the dark side and switched over. Maybe if Intel can show themselves in a more turstworthy light in the future, i'll go back.
Personally, with T-Birds even cheaper still than the PIII, I've joined the dark side and switched over. Maybe if Intel can show themselves in a more turstworthy light in the future, i'll go back.
"maybe you do go with a P4, because future applications will be able to take advantage of the big numbers"
At least you're correct there. Most people buy a system to keep for between 3 and 5 years. Anyone who tries to tell you that P4 optimized code won't be mainstream by then is trying to sell you something. Future performance is an important factor in determining the useful lifetime of your system. The P4 will only gain in performance as more software is optimized for it whereas the P3 and Athlon are at the end of their lifecycles.
"wait until the real P4 chipsets start to immerge, once Intel has lined their pockets by meeting their rambus quotas."
RDRAM is the future. SDRAM (SDR and DDR) bottleneck with lots of dead states when you have moderate to heavy memory usage in an application. Read here: http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=11830#11830
-Raystonn
-- The center of your digital world --
At least you're correct there. Most people buy a system to keep for between 3 and 5 years. Anyone who tries to tell you that P4 optimized code won't be mainstream by then is trying to sell you something. Future performance is an important factor in determining the useful lifetime of your system. The P4 will only gain in performance as more software is optimized for it whereas the P3 and Athlon are at the end of their lifecycles.
"wait until the real P4 chipsets start to immerge, once Intel has lined their pockets by meeting their rambus quotas."
RDRAM is the future. SDRAM (SDR and DDR) bottleneck with lots of dead states when you have moderate to heavy memory usage in an application. Read here: http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=11830#11830
-Raystonn
-- The center of your digital world --
I'm not saying that any given person is wrong to buy a P4 right now, I'm just saying that in the present market situation, even with the price drops, it still does not seem like a feasible buy for the average computer user. Secondly, I lost a lot of my faith in Intel not in their commitment to rambus, but in the way in which they did so. rdram may very well be the future in the memory area, but I have doubts as to viability of Rambus being the ones to lead the charge. I have a feeling that someone, somewhere will be able to developed something similar, if not better, that is not surrounded by so much bad light. Rambus is acting like a scared dog that has been backed into a corner, it will be interesting to see how those court cases turn out.
For me, the benifits of a P4 still can't offset the price. If I had to build a system today, it would be AMD based. $1000 (CDN) per system per year keeps me fairly current. As far as I need to go in my line of work anyways. A P4 1.5, with MB and RAM now costing $1500+ (crazy Canadian colored money, again, of course) just isn't a safe bet for me right now, not with the uncertainty in where it's all headed.
It's way too late and i'm way too tired for any further cognitive arugement, but I'll reply tomorrow, to any further posts directed toward me.
For me, the benifits of a P4 still can't offset the price. If I had to build a system today, it would be AMD based. $1000 (CDN) per system per year keeps me fairly current. As far as I need to go in my line of work anyways. A P4 1.5, with MB and RAM now costing $1500+ (crazy Canadian colored money, again, of course) just isn't a safe bet for me right now, not with the uncertainty in where it's all headed.
It's way too late and i'm way too tired for any further cognitive arugement, but I'll reply tomorrow, to any further posts directed toward me.
>Most people buy a system to keep for between 3 and 5 years<
Now now Ray, I've seen this same tired phase come up in several of your postings. By most people, are you talking most corporation IT departments? Or most Best Buy customers, or most DIY that go through some sort of incremental upgrade every year or so? I would wager that most folks on this forum are in the latter category. I know I won't have the exact same innards in my computer case in 6 months, let alone 3 years. The only original equipment I have by now is a 3 1/4 floppy drive.
Anyway, I just thought I'd challenge this "factoid" that you use in every other post. Because you must have an inkling that that statement is not true for the majority of the readers of this or any other computer hardware forum.
Now now Ray, I've seen this same tired phase come up in several of your postings. By most people, are you talking most corporation IT departments? Or most Best Buy customers, or most DIY that go through some sort of incremental upgrade every year or so? I would wager that most folks on this forum are in the latter category. I know I won't have the exact same innards in my computer case in 6 months, let alone 3 years. The only original equipment I have by now is a 3 1/4 floppy drive.
Anyway, I just thought I'd challenge this "factoid" that you use in every other post. Because you must have an inkling that that statement is not true for the majority of the readers of this or any other computer hardware forum.
Fugger,
By now you should know to click the "reply" button next to the post that you want to reply to. I get enough junk email as it is, don't need more, especially from you.
<font color=blue>This is a Forum, not a playground. Treat it with Respect.</font color=blue>
By now you should know to click the "reply" button next to the post that you want to reply to. I get enough junk email as it is, don't need more, especially from you.
<font color=blue>This is a Forum, not a playground. Treat it with Respect.</font color=blue>
“RDRAM is the future. SDRAM (SDR and DDR) bottleneck with lots of dead states when you have moderate to heavy memory usage in an application”
I wouldn’t put any money down on RDRAM’s superiority now or in the future. Despite all RDRAM’s bandwidth the P4 still looses to a lot of benchmarks. Only Sisandra’s memory benchmark really shows RDRAM in a good light but how this translate into real-world apps? The Athlon and P4 are about even over all even with the P4’s supposedly superior RDRAM. Until the P4 comes out with DDR or SDRAM we won’t know how good RDRAM really is. When that happens we can compare and find the truth about RDRAM. We all ready know it did nothing for the P3. Is it really helping the P4? Only time will tell.
As for Rambus the most litigious company I’ve seen. It seems RDRAM will always be more expensive because RDRAM is more difficult to manufacture + the licensing fees to Rambus. For this reason alone I hope DDR turns out to be the better all around performer.
Thx & Cya
<font color=green>Paranoia is just a higher awareness of reality.</font color=green>
I wouldn’t put any money down on RDRAM’s superiority now or in the future. Despite all RDRAM’s bandwidth the P4 still looses to a lot of benchmarks. Only Sisandra’s memory benchmark really shows RDRAM in a good light but how this translate into real-world apps? The Athlon and P4 are about even over all even with the P4’s supposedly superior RDRAM. Until the P4 comes out with DDR or SDRAM we won’t know how good RDRAM really is. When that happens we can compare and find the truth about RDRAM. We all ready know it did nothing for the P3. Is it really helping the P4? Only time will tell.
As for Rambus the most litigious company I’ve seen. It seems RDRAM will always be more expensive because RDRAM is more difficult to manufacture + the licensing fees to Rambus. For this reason alone I hope DDR turns out to be the better all around performer.
Thx & Cya
<font color=green>Paranoia is just a higher awareness of reality.</font color=green>
I think after this Monday's Intel price cuts-there will be a lot more P4 owners out there. And at least the core is not as fragile as AMD's which crumbles almost every time you attach the fan!
"at least the core is not as fragile as AMD's which crumbles almost every time you attach the fan!"
You're an idiot.
You're an idiot.
LOL, I was thinking the same thing!
I have removed my heatsink over 8 times! I can’t remember for sure. 4 times messing with the L1 bridges, Tried 3 different heat sinks and fan combos and I am thinking of getting one of these new copper heatsinks with the ultra thin fins. Just take your time and don’t force anything, you will have no problems installing your heatsink on a tbird core.
Thx & cya
<font color=green>Paranoia is just a higher awareness of reality.</font color=green>
I have removed my heatsink over 8 times! I can’t remember for sure. 4 times messing with the L1 bridges, Tried 3 different heat sinks and fan combos and I am thinking of getting one of these new copper heatsinks with the ultra thin fins. Just take your time and don’t force anything, you will have no problems installing your heatsink on a tbird core.
Thx & cya
<font color=green>Paranoia is just a higher awareness of reality.</font color=green>
The new copper fans go for about 50$ USD-They are really heavy, but amazingly cool at the touch and work with just average fan that you just screw in...they're pretty cool
I own a P4 and it has been flawless since the day I put it together. It is very fast and very stable on an Asus P4T. I had an AMD 1.1 GHz previous to the P4 and was sorely disappointed. Good speed and performance for the price but terribly unreliable (but I credit VIA more for the unreliability than AMD). The P4 may have cost me $150 bucks more, but the stability of it far outweighs the price.
"By most people, are you talking most corporation IT departments? Or most Best Buy customers, or most DIY that go through some sort of incremental upgrade every year or so?"
I'm talking about all computer purchasers as a whole. Those who post in this forum are a vast minority. Those in this forum usually upgrade something in their system at least once every 6 months. This is not the average consumer. The average consumer wants a computer that works, has someone else put it together (some retail shop), and wants the investment to last without feeding money into it for as long as possible.
-Raystonn
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
I'm talking about all computer purchasers as a whole. Those who post in this forum are a vast minority. Those in this forum usually upgrade something in their system at least once every 6 months. This is not the average consumer. The average consumer wants a computer that works, has someone else put it together (some retail shop), and wants the investment to last without feeding money into it for as long as possible.
-Raystonn
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
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