Question Washers for motherboard standoffs/screws

[FANBOI2000]

I was challenged today and to my shame I wasn't confident in my answer. When fitting your motherboard to the standoffs/ fitting the screws, is there ever a need for insulating washers? I never have as far as I can recall, I just thought that part of the MB was insulated from the MB components anyway-there's a sort of exposed metal ring around the holes? So have I been doing something wrong and getting away with it (over many builds) which seems unlikely. Or are their MB that do require such washers and I have just never come across one?

 

[tennis2]

No need for insulating washers.

 

[Newtonius]

Rarely do any modern day motherboards come with washers. I have assembled plenty of computers and cannot recall the last time I ever used washers on them. They already have some insulated grounding metal on the hole rings that make contact with the standoff and the screw, so washers would be extra and unnecessary,

 

[FANBOI2000]

No need for insulating washers.

thanks. I couldn't imagine I was wrong, the person left me doubting myself and I had visions of them destroying their build based on my advice. I've built many PCs and couldn't see how I just got lucky but they were adamant.

 

[FANBOI2000]

Rarely do any modern day motherboards come with washers. I have assembled plenty of computers and cannot recall the last time I ever used washers on them. They already have some insulated grounding metal on the hole rings that make contact with the standoff and the screw, so washers would be extra and unnecessary,

This is what I thought, and as you say MB or cases don't come with washers and I have never used them, in the last decade at least. But when someone is adamant you are wrong you end up doubting yourself. I'm glad I asked though because I would have ended up using them just to be safe otherwise. He was only a young lad, although everyone is younger than me anyway--but youth isn't a disadvantage in tech, or isn't perceived as a disadvantage,
So I thought it was me in my old age.

 

[Newtonius]

This is what I thought, and as you say MB or cases don't come with washers and I have never used them, in the last decade at least. But when someone is adamant you are wrong you end up doubting yourself. I'm glad I asked though because I would have ended up using them just to be safe otherwise. He was only a young lad, although everyone is younger than me anyway--but youth isn't a disadvantage in tech, or isn't perceived as a disadvantage,
So I thought it was me in my old age.

Sounds like a stubborn one, though I'm only 24 so I can be too sometimes. However if a senior authority tells me a tip about building computers I will take it wholeheartedly. I worked with a bunch of vet field techs and every advice was for my gain. He won't destroy his board with washers, but it's still bad practice and unnecessary. Hopefully he figures that out soon too, probably won't apologize to you though 😉

 

[DMAN999]

The mounting holes on motherboards do not require any insulating washers.
The motherboard sits on metal stand-offs (screwed into the case) and metal screws secure it to those stand-offs.
And if you look at the mounting holes on a motherboard you will see that they have a metal ring on them.
So when mounted to the case the motherboard is grounded to the case via the screws and stand-offs.

PS
I will add that, years ago (late 80's - late 90's), some MB manufacturers did supply non-conductive washers that were installed between the screws and the MB.

 

[FANBOI2000]

Sounds like a stubborn one, though I'm only 24 so I can be too sometimes. However if a senior authority tells me a tip about building computers I will take it wholeheartedly. I worked with a bunch of vet field techs and every advice was for my gain. He won't destroy his board with washers, but it's still bad practice and unnecessary. Hopefully he figures that out soon too, probably won't apologize to you though 😉

in all fairness we are all a bit like that when we are young and as we get older we can think that our way is the only way. I have no problem with youth, in tech they often do know what they are talking about. My 10 year old berated me the other day when I was caught using Chrome not Firefox and I was informed of all Goggles ills. And he has been doing simple coding for about 2 years now.

Better that I ask, even though I was certain I was doing things right. I have probably built more than 100 systems by now and couldn't see how I was just getting lucky since XP days. Then again I haven't used every motherboard, I don't think I've ever built a supermicro for example but lots of Asrock, MSI and Gigabyte. Thank you all for reassuring me though as my heart sank as I played through the scenario of having been acting in ignorance for years. I even pulled out an old AMD Bulldozer Based system from the attic to check--all 3 builds I have currently are new and they had no washers supplied with case or MB. I won't be smug when I tell them I am certain they are wrong but I do wonder if it is a bad practice as I imagine the standoffs act to ground the MB. Another thing is with SBC like the Raspberry Pi, often that stuff ships with nylon 2.5m fittings, maybe that is where the confusion crept in for him as he is into SBC and has advised me a few times on them/ Python. So he isn't a complete know nothing.

 

[FANBOI2000]

The mounting holes on motherboards do not require any insulating washers.
The motherboard sits on metal stand-offs (screwed into the case) and metal screws secure it to those stand-offs.
And if you look at the mounting holes on a motherboard you will see that they have a metal ring on them.
So when mounted to the case the motherboard is grounded to the case via the screws and stand-offs.

PS
I will add that, years ago (late 80's - late 90's), some MB manufacturers did supply non-conductive washers that were installed between the screws and the MB.

What you have written was my position entirely, I argued the same. I actually said it was earthed via the 'metal rings' although in truth I have never actually checked that with a meter.

 

[Newtonius]

in all fairness we are all a bit like that when we are young and as we get older we can think that our way is the only way. I have no problem with youth, in tech they often do know what they are talking about. My 10 year old berated me the other day when I was caught using Chrome not Firefox and I was informed of all Goggles ills. And he has been doing simple coding for about 2 years now.

Better that I ask, even though I was certain I was doing things right. I have probably built more than 100 systems by now and couldn't see how I was just getting lucky since XP days. Then again I haven't used every motherboard, I don't think I've ever built a supermicro for example but lots of Asrock, MSI and Gigabyte. Thank you all for reassuring me though as my heart sank as I played through the scenario of having been acting in ignorance for years. I even pulled out an old AMD Bulldozer Based system from the attic to check--all 3 builds I have currently are new and they had no washers supplied with case or MB. I won't be smug when I tell them I am certain they are wrong but I do wonder if it is a bad practice as I imagine the standoffs act to ground the MB. Another thing is with SBC like the Raspberry Pi, often that stuff ships with nylon 2.5m fittings, maybe that is where the confusion crept in for him as he is into SBC and has advised me a few times on them/ Python. So he isn't a complete know nothing.

Chrome? I'm afraid I can't speak to you anymore. My pappa warned me about you chrome people. We're a Strict Opera family household and we don't talk to the likes of chrome plebs. And I thought we would become great colleagues

 

[TJ Hooker]

Huh, I didn't even realize that Chrome was starting to being viewed that way. Are people who think that viewing it as Internet Explorer was viewed, i.e. you only used it if you weren't tech savvy enough to know to get a technically superior browser? Or is it more just about privacy?

 

[FANBOI2000]

Chrome? I'm afraid I can't speak to you anymore. My pappa warned me about you chrome people. We're a Strict Opera family household and we don't talk to the likes of chrome plebs. And I thought we would become great colleagues

I know, I've gone and spoilt it now, I can't even think of a good excuse for using Chrome either. Shame of it all. I do have 32GB of DDR though so I thought I might as well use it...

 

[FANBOI2000]

Huh, I didn't even realize that Chrome was starting to being viewed that way. Are people who think that viewing it as Internet Explorer was viewed, i.e. you only used it if you weren't tech savvy enough to know to get a technically superior browser? Or is it more just about privacy?

From my point of view, with too much time on my hands, I have been trying to see how Google 'fingerprint' me. I can't pretend I have achieved scientific levels of enquiry. But only using on PC for anything Google and VPN, I have been looking at how the adverts and so on pan out versus using the 'clean' PC where I try and be really careful, not tinfoil hat and not Linux, but careful. I also have a Surface Go and that is like a slave to MS so its all Windows/office/Bing and so on. Like I say not scientific analysis but still you see the difference quite quickly. And then if you mess with allogrythm then things get interesting as it really tries to reingage you and it is clear your data is being sold and shared.

I once had a chat with my son as regards Internet safety but he has run with that ball and will berate his mother who uses Chrome and be damned. He is quite aware that Firefox is better from a data sharing point of view. I was quite surprised as his school is in some Google programme where he got given a Chromebook for free, the whole class did. He won't use his, although he favours Windows over any Linux so he isn't all that. The school allows for you to submit work via those platforms an Mac. But Google marketing are wasting their time with him.

 

[USAFRet]

Huh, I didn't even realize that Chrome was starting to being viewed that way. Are people who think that viewing it as Internet Explorer was viewed, i.e. you only used it if you weren't tech savvy enough to know to get a technically superior browser? Or is it more just about privacy?

Chrome is from google and google is now de debbil.

 

[drea.drechsler]

...When fitting your motherboard to the standoffs/ fitting the screws, is there ever a need for insulating washers?...

I would not use an insulating washer unless the installation manual quite specifically calls out for one. Not that I've ever seen that to be the case.

Reason being, the motherboard depends on electrical contact between the ground plane of the motherboard and the metal case to provide a solid, low impedance ground path that eliminates eddy currents, ground loops and EMI. That's also a reason those little metal tabs on the I/O shield, the ones that are such a bother to get right when installing, are important to be there.