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Watecooling Loop. Need Recommendations

arjun_jamil1

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Friends,
I fried my mobo and am going to upgrade to nehalem. but i dont have money right now, and i am sitting totally idle. So i thought that why not design an efficient watercooling system for my soon to come pc?
There are problems though. i am totally new to watercooling. i dont know any of the criteria nor the reputable brands which are the components of a good watercooling system.. The good news is i am not a total noob and i have the brains for designing a good loop. This is my final loop.<sorry i didnt have any designing software except paint>

Explanation.
The loop is-- reservoir>pump>splitter>cpu/NB/GPU>joint>radiator>flow controller>reservoir
>radiator>reservoir.
till the radiator<air cooled> the loop is a normal one. but what i will do is attach a flow control to the outlet of the Rad. one pipe leading to reservoir and the other leading to a radiator in a fridge. I will purchase the air cooled rad and the fridge cooled one will be made by me. so that way even if i forget to turn the fridge on, the air cooled rad will hold.

I will be using CM Elite 334 case <mid tower>

Now that u have seen the case....
My problems..
1. there will be only one drive bay for the reservoir. and i do not have the money nor the courage to mod my case to the extreme.. pls suggest a viable position for reservoir..
2. i cannot see space for a good pump. pls suggest if one would fit.
3. Since i am totally new, i dont have any idea abt what spec of a pump would be required.
4. How does the reservoir capacity affect the efficiency? is 1 liter enough for my loop?
5.what size of hosing will be required <diameter>??
6. Will my loop be efficient?
7. as far as i know, Frozen cpu ships to my country.<india>. pls quote any other site which ships to india or take your recommendations from frozen cpu itself.
8. i will be buying only the pump, waterblock, radiator and hosing from the market. everything else will be custom made by me.
9. I have About 250$-300$ USD for the above mentioned items. Please recommend the best suited for my needs.
10. thanks!!
Oh and as soon as i start building this thing, i will start a mod thread. keep Track!!
 

lucuis

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You will burn out the fridge, it's not designed to constantly cool something. It brings temps down on food taking an hr or so, then only has to do maintenance cooling to keep the temperature stable. The cooling power of a fridge is pretty crappy also. Although the theory sounds good, in practice it would be disappointing.

BUT if you hooked a rad up to an AC unit, THEN your talking some cooling :) My knowledge on how to go about such things is limited, but there are some avid extreme cooling nerds on here. I'm sure they can point you in the right direction.

First i'll have a go at your list of questions.
1. There are one drive bay reservoirs, but perhaps a T Reservoir word work for you. Basically all you do is at the highest point in your loop, you put a T junction. Run a small bit of tubing upwards, cap it, and there's your reservoir :) You can even go as far as drilling a hole in the top of your case, attach the tube reservoir to it with a nice valve and plug system. And now it's easy to fill up. Apparently it's less restrictive for the entire loop to do it that way anway.

2. You can mount a pump easily in almost any mid size case. It's best to mount them on the bottom, so i've heard. Usually next to the PSU. Or in your case at the bottom anywhere in front of the motherboard would do, or a bit to the right in front of the drive bays. OR in the bottom of the drive bays. Either way you're potentially blocking stuff. It's up to you to decide where is most convenient.

3. Not sure on pumps, all i know is there should have a decent Gallons Per Hour, and good pressure. There another term for it, can't remember.

4. 1 Liter is enough :) A Small res i think is slightly better for efficiency, i could be wrong though.

5. Big hosing :) 1/2 i think is pretty common. You could go for 3/4 too i remember correctly. Large hosing hold more water obviously, thus more heat absorbing potential. Just have to make sure you get the proper sized barbs.

6. In short, no. You can't expect to cool the CPU, Chipset, AND GPU in one loop. Your temps wouldn't be that good. To much resistance, etc. Unless you got the proper components to do so, thus costing a lot more then 300USD. For 250-300USD you'd be able to setup a good CPU only water cooling loop. You MIGHT me able to afford a chip set water block in that loop. But definitely not with a GPU block, far too expensive.

7. Can't help ya there, sry bud.

8. Ok

9. I'll leave that to the Pros of the Forum :)

10. You Welcome :sol:
 

arjun_jamil1

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Thanks man <prompt reply>!
k...
1. i will only be using the fridge cooled rad for limited periods <overclocking> <that is what the controller is for> ...
it will have some kind of tray to put ice in for near zero temps..
2 . will a powerful pump <Innovatek Eheim HPPS i High Power> hold my loop?
3. i will fit the vga block much later when i am a watercooling pro.. i just want to keep the option open...
4. How the hell will a rad fit an AC unit?
5. Pls give recommendations.
6. that t-juction thing seems really intelligent but at the same time brings a doubt to ma mind.. if this method is really so space saving and efficient, why do ppl use normal reservoirs? ...
7. how much tubing shud i put above the t-junction?
thanks!
keep track of the thread that i would start in a week or so..
 
Here is why a mini fridge won't work:
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=373263

If you want to go below ambient, look in to phase change or TEC (haven't seen a good TEC that's able to cool an i7 tho).

What are your rad sizes? Why cool Northbridge? Also why buy the rads? I'm sure you can pick up some heatercores from a local auto store insted of paying for Frozen CPU's shipping.


Please read below first. I do not think you have a solid understanding of the WCing basics (because you asked one of the most nubish questions: "what size of hosing will be required <diameter>?? " )

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/253958-29-shadow-watercoolers-redid-stickie-review#t1816053.
 

rubix_1011

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Staff member
That is, perhaps, the MOST INEFFICIENT depiction of a cooling loop I have seen to date.

You don't need NB cooling...you aren't going for record overclocks, and if you are, you should do a lot more research first. Having all those splitters and junk in there will only kill your pump's flow rates. I am not sure about the 'refrigerant cooled' radiator...you are starting to mix into phase change with things like that, and as a few others have stated...refrigerators being used for PC cooling is a failure waiting to happen. There are some ways to DIY this with other components, but since you lack some basic knowledge (like Shadow stated) you might want to start at the beginning and build a kite before you put a rocket in space.
 

rubix_1011

Contributing Writer
Staff member
Hey, sometimes you have to spit out a witty analogy before someone gets what you are are trying to tell them. If it gets worse than that, try pictures...but here, we started with the picture first...
 

arjun_jamil1

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ok..
before u guys try any more analogies .. i told u I AM NEW TO WC.
and fyi i saw a DIY thread <probably on bit tech> which split the main line into SIX connections. all with a ehiem.
if six connections can hold, why not 3??
and pls i am tired of telling ppl that the vga loop will be added much later.. maybe on another pump. so pls read carefully.
and lastly my mobo- ex58 UD5 extreme <gigabyte> has a NB waterblock prefitted. so if i dont install WC on it, its an investment gone waste aint it?


And be nice to ppl.... u never know what the person at the other end of the table packs....
thats wht forums are for- sharing info..--POLITELY
oh and one more thing -rocket scientists do fly kites..
 

grieve

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Condensation will be a HUGE issue if you go under room temp.
 

rubix_1011

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Its not about the 'connections holding' its about the flow rate and the ability for the components to be cooled by an adequate amount of coolant to maintain the temps.

No offense, the point I am trying to make is that you should read on some more informed forums to see the points I am trying to make. All too often, we get people in here with illusions of grandeur who always think they have the next best thing that 'no one else thought of yet' and because, in theory, it should work, they are very easily upset.

And I would be willing to bet that every rocket scientist first flew something far closer to the ground than outer space in his or her life, first.
 

Conumdrum

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Lets go back to watercooling basics 101. If you haven't read all the guides and spent more than a few hours just reading on other forums your clueless and just going to frustrate yourself. Start over.

Slow down. It's gonna just get worse.

And your comment about what someone is packing could be construed as a personal threat here and it's possible you will be if not already been reported.
 

arjun_jamil1

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OK guys Sorry for the "threat". i didnt write it to be taken that way. You all r the big fishes of WC , sorry......
Now .
Firstly i need you guys to approve/criticize/improve my normal loop.<till the aircooled rad>.
then we will start talking about the refrigerant cooled rad.ok??

I look at the fridge cooled rad this way--
Some hot day, i feel like playing crysis on my shiny watercooled i7. i start playing. but the gamer craving <for more fps> kicks in. so what to do? i already had pushed my WC system to the limits. So i get a flashback <in sepia tone> about the things i learnt in school abt thermodynamics. And suddenly the modder spirit in me wakes up. i take an old mini fridge, drill holes in it for the rad barbs and put some kind of flow alternator at its inlet. So now my new rad is a part of my cooling system WHEN I WANT IT. <the flow alternator/controller will enable me to kick out or bring in the fridge cooled rad whenever i want.> ok Now the real thing begins....
since i told u ill make the 2nd rad myself... i add some kind of tray in it for ice.
the water cooled rad will be inactive for most periods, but will still be in an active fridge there fore cooling the liquid inside it <which is just as the beer kept beside the rad.> now when i turn it on, the cool liquid will enter my loop giving a sudden drop in temps, which will be maintained by the ice i put in the tray. and since the copper <or aluminum> in the rad will stay cool for some time, it will cool the liquid running in it.Also before the 2nd rad receives the liquid , it will be cooled by the air cooled rad <to normal temps> .all of these factors will put minimum load on the compressor of the fridge <which btw will be covered by the huge 5 yr warranty>. so wen all other cooling resources will deplete, the fridge will cool the rad. And that to for minimal time <time i want to run the cooling session <eg-1hr> - time taken for other resources to deplete <eg-45 min>= time the fridge actually cools at its full power..>.
and pls i still dont understand..... how is asking for a hose's recommended diameter nubish??
 

arjun_jamil1

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Oh and fyi @ conundrum... u r so famous , that i may have read most of your posts.. i remember one guy asking if that ehiem <red accent> will hold his loop.. and you said it was WAYY overkill.. so why not my loop?
 

lucuis

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I suppose if you really wanted to, it couldn't hurt to find out how it works. Though i'm fairly certain it will be a disappointment, although a fun project. I should add that once you put those nifty barbs on your fridge the warranty will be void.

All things aside, if you're set on doin' it. Have fun, and enjoy yourself. Experiments are fun, look at Mythbusters :) Just remember the results you get may be completely different then what you expect, that's why it's an experiment.

EDIT: I am directing this post entirely at the fridge thing. The rest of the project i'm sure will be a success with the help of our forum vets here :)
 

rubix_1011

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That's the problem with email/IM/forums is that most of commmunication is visual and body language, not the actual wording, so most of what is meant to be said is actually lost in translation. Yes, you need to chill a little...I like the enthusiasm and drive, but a lot of these ideas have already been tried (multiple times) and failed to produce results. Yes, in theory, they sound like good ideas, but unless you really know what you are doing in most cases, jumping into more advanced ideas of cooling before you try out the next step is very much like the kite/rocket analogy...just give it a try and see what your results are first...
 

Conumdrum

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Ohh a guy was looking at the massive ehiem pump? Yea it happens. Maybe thats what your asking about? Could you find the link? I'm curious.

Anyway, we don't split loops in a simple watercooling setup. It affects flow rates and can starve the other parellel loop. Many blocks need a minimum of xx flow rates otherwise the temps skyrocket. We go something like this:
Res-Pump-Rad-CPU-GPU-NB-back to res. This keeps the flow rate equal in the loop and as high as it can be. There are limitations like too tiny hose, too many 90 deg fittings, restrictive blocks, weak pump. It's a big INFORMED balance of the whole picture.

If you want to try the fridgerator, go ahead. Look at the back of the fridge, what is it's watt rating? Say, for example, it says 800 watts. I can safely say about 25% of that is lost in normal electronics and pump mechanics. Lets say the fridge can cool 600 watts.

An i7 and a GTX295 under load can get over 500 watts of heat if overclocked. If the rad was put inside the fridge, and you had massive HS fans blowing cool air over the rad you wouldn't be able to keep it up for a long long time. The fridge compressor is not meant to run for long periods of time, maybe 2-6 minutes, then it shuts down. You'd have to use a AC unit or industrial compressor.

AND, a fridge has TWO compartments. The total cooling is divided between the freezer and fridge section. Ohh I'm not talking a small fridge, a normal kitchen fridge in my first part. A small fridge is wayyy to weak.

You might want to consider buying a bigger case. Your choice isn't made for watercooling. You can't even fit a 120x2 rad in the front unless you like dremeling etc. You will want a 120x3 rad at a MINIMUM for CPU/GPU/NB, more like a 120x3 AND a 120x2 depending on your GPU you pick.

Have you started reading all the guides etc that has been posted in this 'discussion'?
 

Conumdrum

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Umm and we guys are not even close to the WC gods. I consider myself a noob next to them. And on many advanced forums I'm not even a blip on the radar.

This is a chilled water rig. The OP has rads for normal use, chilled for gaming, just like you want. When he's chilling and the compressor is running and the massive Delta fans are running, you can bet it can be heard down the hallway and up the stairs. The room he's in will get nice n toasty too.

Look closely at the insulation he has had to do on the Mobo and GPU. Ever seen a cold glass of water drip water on the outside? You have to insulate or the water will drip onto stuff.

What you have proposed just isn't nearly powerful enough to even chill the water. You have to do something like this to even get any benefit.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=212891
 

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