water cooling idea for max OC

[clue69less]

Got a link to a site abotu setting up Peltiers? I'll be doing my own search but help is appreciated.

I'm stuck with my laptop and only have these links below (WARNING: this is a mixed bag of stuff I'm copying out of a folder. Get what you can and dump the rest. Some of this is old!):

http://www.overclockers.com/tips313/

http://www.digit-life.com/articles/peltiercoolers/

http://www.heatsink-guide.com/peltier.htm

http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=39842

http://utility-computing.webbuyersguide.com/reviews/3458-wbgutilitycomputing_reviews.html

http://www.dslreports.com/faq/overclocking/1.4%20Heatsink

http://www.ocworkbench.com/hardware/leufken/peltier1.htm

http://www.dansdata.com/peltprac.htm

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11060

http://arstechnica.com/paedia/celeron_oc_faq4.html

http://www.totalchoicehosting.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2384

http://www.dansdata.com/sprop.htm

http://madshrimps.be/forums/showthread.php?s=344e466f4f86e88e77ba3f6ef796cdc3&threadid=26603

http://www.overclockers.com/articles23/

http://www.sysopt.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=7

http://www.overclock.net/peltiers-tec/97374-cheap-idiot-proof-peltier-set-up-2.html

 

[SuperFly03]

thanks for the links. I just want to be well educated about what I am getting myself into because this looks like risky business (which I am a fan of ).

 

[phreejak]

Storm blocks weren't designed to be used to cool TECs. You see, you have to make certain that the entire TEC area is cooled - not just 99% of it because it will crack and that is the end of it. On that one little bit of area that might not be cooled, the temp differential between the hotside/coldside will be too great. It's not like having part of a ramsink on your gpu covered by a waterblock and it will do kinda thing. TECs generate electrically superfast temps on their hot side and their cold side.

Now, if you were able to have a peltier module custom designed to be for fitting to a Storm, that would be different.

Clue69Less, in all actuality, my cooling loop (with my TEC waterblock, is as maintenance-free as any standard watercooling system. I don't have to do anything extra that I didn't have to do when I was just straight watercooling. I'll admit to their inefficiency but, they are much more practical than phase-change cooling - and considerably much more quiet. I live by thebeach here in New York and I like to keep my windows open and breathe in the ocean air. The temps, here, can get pretty warm during the summertime so I needed to find a way to protect my proc. I'm actually looking forward to putting the TEC on my controe and see how it works out, I'm just waiting on a few things I ordered before I do that. If I can maintain 0 degrees celsius on a 955 presler - even under load - I can't wait to see how much I can overlock my E6600 and maintain a good temp.

 

[SuperFly03]

Any suggestions on a possible substitution for a water block? I'll investigate the issue more.

 

[phreejak]

Well, the ideal waterblock shape (since the typical peltier module that you would be dealing with is square shaped) is something along the lines of a block shaped like a Danger Den Maze4 GPU form. Now I know that is a GPU waterblock - I just wanted to give you the idea that it should be square shaped like that. In most Peltier waterblocks, you will be dealing with peltier modules that are 40mm * 40mm or 50mm * 50mm in size. 40mm modules aren't going to be of much use to you for CPU cooling because their extreme potential isn't that high (the best I've seen is around 172 to 180 watts perhaps). 50mm modules, thoughh, are ideal as they can get quite high (the module in my Swiftech waterblock is a 226w TEC. There was a company called Arctic Web (which has since gone out of business) that made a TEC waterblock that used a 62mm * 62mm module and was a 437watt unit - very extreme.

Anyway, I hope this gives you food for thought - 40mm * 40mm square is really undersized for CPUs and 50mm * 50mm is just right. So, you take those dimensions when choosing a waterblock. Of course, there is nothing to say that you have to stick straight to the waterblocks that are sold. You can custom make your own block with materials of several blocks if you can find them. On my new Abit board, there is a heatsink near the CPU that cools pwm3 & pwm4 and I am using a GPU waterblock variation to cool them. So, if there is a need, there is a way.

However, the Swiftech TEC waterblock is pretty much the best all around waterblock design right now to use as a TEC/waterblock as it was designed to cool a 50mm * 50mm module. That particular TEC/waterblock costs about $120. Keep in mind of the voltage of the module you are using though. TEC modules that you will most likely encounter will either be 12v or 24v modules and if you are going to use a dedicated secondary PSU then make sure that it is a 12v or 24v corresponding one. Also, a module is always going to be "under-rated". That is, take a 226 watt module. The 12v model of that is actually capable of up to somehting like 15.4 colts so it has an even greater potwntial than 226 watts. The same goes for the 24v variation of the module. Meanwell PSUs that are typically used in TEC setups are designed the same way. I use a 600 SE12 PSU for my TEC and it is rated at 12 volts but can actually raise the voltages up to 15.4 or so. I think you get the picture here. If you could get a voltage adjuster installed for a dedicated secondary PSU that would be ideal (I know a guy who can do that) as it would allow you to raise or lower the power of the TEC based on what you need it for. I have a voltage adjuster on my Meanwell 600 SE12.

 

[SuperFly03]

Alright, taking the 50mm^2 size into account I looked up the dimensions of the Swiftech STORM Extreme and here is what I got from Frozencpu.com

Upper Body: CNC machined Delrin Acetal
Inlet and Outlet: straight threaded ports to 1/4" NPSM standard
Lower body: CNC machined Delrin® Acetal, with 35 mini jets
Base plate: CNC machined C110 copper, lapped to +/- 0.0003", Universal hold-down plate
Body O-ring: (2) 2.5 width x 50mm ID Buna
Nylon Fittings: 1/4" NPSM to 3/8" or 1/2" barbs
Fitting O-ring: (2) EPDM O-ring AS568A Dash Number 112
Base plate dimensions: 2" x 3" (50.8 x 76.2 mm)
Assembly weight: 9.2 oz (260 g)

The base plate seems to conform to the dimensions you outlined. I was definately going with a 226w Peltier (all my stuff in general is coming from frozencpu.com).

The other swiftech block is the Swiftech APOGEE Extreme which is in the same line but it isn't resistence based and is a perfect square block. Specs as follows:

Nylon Fittings: 1/4" NPSM to 3/8" and/or 1/2" barbs
Fitting O-ring: (2) EPDM O-ring AS568A Dash Number 112
Base plate dimensions: 2" x 2" (50.5 x 50.5 mm)
Assembly weight: 6.7 oz (190 g)

The diffrence seems to be that the base of the Storm is the same size as the apogee excep for some excess on 2 sides which do not come in contact with the CPU.

 

[clue69less]

Clue69Less, in all actuality, my cooling loop (with my TEC waterblock, is as maintenance-free as any standard watercooling system. I don't have to do anything extra that I didn't have to do when I was just straight watercooling.

One thing I'm getting at is that the consequences of a component failure can be more catastrophic. It's never happened to me but I've witnessed a system frying at close range. Nasty!

 

[phreejak]

What you really need to be looking at is the Internal design of the waterblock. If you go to the Swiftech site you'll see the breakdown of the Storm and Apogee blocks and how they are designed inside. While their baseplates might be 40mm or 50mm the contruction of the waterchannels inside the block are much smaller - they don't actually cover a 50mm * 50mm area and you have to make certain that the ENTIRE area of the hotside of a TEC module is cooled. The waterchannel of the Storm and the Apogee is actually ovular in shape if you look at it's internal structure.

Go to http://www.swiftnets.com/

Look at the Apogee and Storm blocks. Then, take a look at the thermoelectric blocks and see the difference in design and you will see what I mean.

 

[phreejak]

Yes, the potential for catastrophe is much greater if a TEC module isn't properly cooled, it will pretty much fry the CPU in less than a minue. But, I am sufficiently careful of testing my watercooling/TEC cooling aparatus well before it is used in my system.

 

[SuperFly03]

Ok I see what you are getting at. So it would be easier for me to purchase this.

And Clueless, I have had memory go out on me, hard drives start stuttering, 2 mobos die, so component failure is nothing new to me. I will just have to get a temperature monitor.

 

[phreejak]

Precisely...

That is the very TEC/waterbock combo that I have been using for over a year now. I've used it on a 3.73EE single core and my present 3.46 955 presler core. I will be using it on my E6600 conroe.

 

[SuperFly03]

Precisely...

That is the very TEC/waterbock combo that I have been using for over a year now. I've used it on a 3.73EE single core and my present 3.46 955 presler core. I will be using it on my E6600 conroe.

Alright we are on the same page now, and I understand why (very important to me ). I want to put a E6600 + Intel Badaxe + Gskill DDR2 800. Then cool it with that swiftech peltier and a dual 120mm rad in the TT Kandalf VA9000SWA case. Hopefully it should all fit.

 

[phreejak]

sounds like a plan.....

 

[phreejak]

One other thing. The Meanwell PSU - you'll need it to pwoer your TEC waterblock - you'll need to make some kind of custom drivebay tray to hold it - like tearing apart an old CD Drive or DVD Drive.

 

[SuperFly03]

One other thing. The Meanwell PSU - you'll need it to pwoer your TEC waterblock - you'll need to make some kind of custom drivebay tray to hold it - like tearing apart an old CD Drive or DVD Drive.

I was noticing that. I took a look at their website and there was no PSU that looked like it was made specificly to fit in a drive bay. It's all good though, I'm very handy with tools and sometimes I get a creative streak.

Thanks for the help. That clears up alot of issues and concerns.

Peace!

PS- Ill post when I get it all setup but I wouldn't expect it before christmas.

 

[phreejak]

Good enough - and good luck