Question Weird DOA Motherboard?

[Humboldt_K]

Hey guys, I was trying to build a new gaming PC for my older brother, but after putting everything together pc showed no signs of life, no led’s on motherboard, no fans spinning etc. I did everything to eliminate the issue. First I tested the PSU with the short test, it works. After that I tried powering on my motherboard outside of the case with only the CPU/cooler/8pin power connected and 1 stick of ram and the 24 pin mobo power connector. Tried using the power button as well as shorting the power pins on the motherboard to start it up, still nothing. For some reason I tried starting the motherboard without the CPU connected and all the led’s lit up on the motherboard. After that I connected a ram stick, RGB’s lit up on the ram. After that I placed the CPU in the socket, connected the cooler and everything, and it wouldn’t power on. Completely dead again. I took the cpu out, and the motherboard powers back on. So I placed the CPU in the socket, and without pushing the lever down, it started, as soon as I tried pushing the lever down with the motherboard on, it instantly turns off and stays dead, but without it powers on correctly. Seems like a dead CPU right? But I had another computer that I was able to test the CPU on; and who woulda guessed, the cpu works just fine in the other computer. Any ideas?

New build specs are:
CPU: Ryzen 5 2600
Mobo: MSI B450 Tomahawk
Ram: 16GB ddr4 3200mhz Corsair vengeance
GPU: MSI GTX 1070
PSU: EVGA 550watt B3 80+ Bronze
Storage: 1TB WD Black

The cpu was tested in a spare computer with a B350 tomahawk.

 

[Aeacus]

Just because the PSU fan starts turning when you jumpstart the PSU doesn't mean that PSU actually outputs any kind of load for PC's normal operation. Due to that reason, i'd pull the PSU from spare PC and put it into this PC to test if system boots up. If it does, issue is with EVGA PSU. But if you get the same exact results with spare PSU as well (0 life out of your PC), then it can be said the issue is within B450 MoBo.

 

[Humboldt_K]

Just because the PSU fan starts turning when you jumpstart the PSU doesn't mean that PSU actually outputs any kind of load for PC's normal operation. Due to that reason, i'd pull the PSU from spare PC and put it into this PC to test if system boots up. If it does, issue is with EVGA PSU. But if you get the same exact results with spare PSU as well (0 life out of your PC), then it can be said the issue is within B450 MoBo.

Okay I did what you said, still no power to the motherboard while the CPU is in, so it must be the motherboard. That’s really weird it lights up without the cpu in the socket. Ordered a new motherboard.

 

[Humboldt_K]

Bump, I really want to know what is wrong with the motherboard

 

[Aeacus]

Bump, I really want to know what is wrong with the motherboard

Do not bump the topic, it's against forum rules.

As far as what can be wrong with MoBo, it's most likely DOA (Dead On Arrival). For such instances, there's RMA and warranty that covers it. What the actual cause of dead MoBo is, that's impossible to tell. It could be that the voltage regulation module itself is dead and can't ask power from PSU. It could be something else. Your guess is as good as mine. If you return the MoBo to MSI, MSI techs do look into it and try to figure out what caused it's demise. Here, i don't think MSI would disclose to you the exact reason why the MoBo doesn't work.

 

[Humboldt_K]

Do not bump the topic, it's against forum rules.

As far as what can be wrong with MoBo, it's most likely DOA (Dead On Arrival). For such instances, there's RMA and warranty that covers it. What the actual cause of dead MoBo is, that's impossible to tell. It could be that the voltage regulation module itself is dead and can't ask power from PSU. It could be something else. Your guess is as good as mine. If you return the MoBo to MSI, MSI techs do look into it and try to figure out what caused it's demise. Here, i don't think MSI would disclose to you the exact reason why the MoBo doesn't work.

Gotcha, I bought it from a 3rd party seller on Newegg. Weird the motherboard powers on fine without the cpu installed. If I didn’t have another test computer for the CPU I would’ve thought it was a dead CPU.

 

[Aeacus]

Without 2nd system to test CPU, MoBo, RAM; it's impossible to tell which of them is dead. It could be any of them or all of them. Though, when it comes to the component reliability, MoBos are first to go. RAM has better reliability while CPUs have very good reliability. That's why i think the issue would be with MoBo.

 

[Humboldt_K]

Without 2nd system to test CPU, MoBo, RAM; it's impossible to tell which of them is dead. It could be any of them or all of them. Though, when it comes to the component reliability, MoBos are first to go. RAM has better reliability while CPUs have very good reliability. That's why i think the issue would be with MoBo.

I think we have a misunderstanding. I do have a another system to test things, as mentioned in my first post. My brothers PC is a slightly upgraded version of my PC (I have a B350 and Ryzen 5 1600). After building his PC and troubleshooting and finding out that his motherboard won’t power on at all when the CPU is installed, I was saying if I didn’t have that second system to test his CPU with, I would’ve thought his CPU was dead since the motherboard does indeed power on without it installed. Anyhow, I ordered a new motherboard from amazon and am doing a return/refund on his B450

 

[Humboldt_K]

So I got the new motherboard today, had the same issue except this time, after I had everything installed the PC turned on for a half second, then turned off. Wouldn’t turn back on after. Pulled the CPU, tried turning it on and everything started blinking like the power was pulsating and smoke started coming from the new motherboard. What the heck

 

[Humboldt_K]

That’s two motherboards that die when I put the CPU in... CPU worked fine on my other test PC

 

[Aeacus]

If you see smoke then something got fried. Also, do note that it's very bad idea to run MoBo without CPU since in most cases, you'll fry the MoBo.

Here, if you don't trust MSI anymore (i think both MoBos are MSI) then you can switch brand for new MoBo. Asus MoBos are one of the best out there. Also, before installing MoBo into the PC, breadboard the MoBo to make sure it works.

3rd time around, here's what i'd do:

• get a new MoBo and place it to any cardboard box (MoBo's own box will do fine)
• install CPU, CPU cooler, RAM, GPU
• connect monitor to GPU
• use another PSU from 2nd PC (it's possible your EVGA B3 PSU is frying MoBos)
• power on the PC by jumpstarting MoBo (short the + and - power pins with screwdriver)

Without any storage drives connected, PC does POST and goes into BIOS.

Once system is running, shut it down (flip the PSU switch on the PSU), install storage drive and OS on it, while MoBo is still breadboarded. You can then try running your system with EVGA B3 PSU but if your 3rd MoBo also shows same symptoms with EVGA B3 PSU as it has with 2x MoBos prior to that, it's your PSUs fault.

After OS is on storage drive and you can successfully boot to OS when MoBo is breadboarded, only then install the system into the PC case.

Under the spoiler is image of MoBo breadboarding. In this case, it's my Skylake build when i bought it.

Spoiler: MoBo breadboarding

 

[Humboldt_K]

If you see smoke then something got fried. Also, do note that it's very bad idea to run MoBo without CPU since in most cases, you'll fry the MoBo.

Here, if you don't trust MSI anymore (i think both MoBos are MSI) then you can switch brand for new MoBo. Asus MoBos are one of the best out there. Also, before installing MoBo into the PC, breadboard the MoBo to make sure it works.

3rd time around, here's what i'd do:

• get a new MoBo and place it to any cardboard box (MoBo's own box will do fine)
• install CPU, CPU cooler, RAM, GPU
• connect monitor to GPU
• use another PSU from 2nd PC (it's possible your EVGA B3 PSU is frying MoBos)
• power on the PC by jumpstarting MoBo (short the + and - power pins with screwdriver)

Without any storage drives connected, PC does POST and goes into BIOS.

Once system is running, shut it down (flip the PSU switch on the PSU), install storage drive and OS on it, while MoBo is still breadboarded. You can then try running your system with EVGA B3 PSU but if your 3rd MoBo also shows same symptoms with EVGA B3 PSU as it has with 2x MoBos prior to that, it's your PSUs fault.

After OS is on storage drive and you can successfully boot to OS when MoBo is breadboarded, only then install the system into the PC case.

Under the spoiler is image of MoBo breadboarding. In this case, it's my Skylake build when i bought it.

Spoiler: MoBo breadboarding

Thank you, I made the mistake of not breadboarding it the second time around. I contacted amazon and they sent me out another motherboard, which is coming this Wednesday. I’m going to go ahead and replace the PSU as well and breadboard this 3rd attempt..

Edit: just tried my spare PSU on this second motherboard. Same issue, won’t power at all with the CPU installed but stays powered on without it but the red CPU light on the motherboard is on. As soon as I install the CPU it’s dead, but yet the CPU works fine on my spare computer. Any explanation for this?

 

[Humboldt_K]

I’m so done.... I just got the 3rd motherboard and replacement power supply. Bread boarded and it didn’t boot, so I figured maybe the BIOS needs updating to support the 2600. Popped in my Ryzen 5 1600. It posted. Updated the BIOS. Swapped CPU’s then put everything together. Didn’t boot or anything once put together. Took the side panel off and removed the power connectors and tried shorting the power button. As a did that a ram module smoked, I removed it. Tried isolating the problem, unplugged Perf, Sata’s and just left the motherboard/cpu connected/powered. Tried shorting the power button and nothing. Tried the Ryzen 5 1600 again and nothing. Went to go put the Ryzen 1600 back in my spare computer and it wouldn’t power on. Took the CPU out and it powers on, but of course won’t post or whatever since there’s no CPU. So I just fried two CPU’s after buying 3 motherboards and replacing a PSU while having to pay collateral while waiting to return my old one.. I want to kms right now

 

[Aeacus]

Sad to hear that you got that unlucky.

Since you got the breadboarded build to post with R5 1600, i can only think 3 ways why the build died once you put it all together:
1) if BIOS update, for whatever reason, should be interrupted, MoBo will be bricked.
Here, always test if the BIOS update was successful while still breadboarding. Once the system does POST with R5 2600 during breadboarding, only then assemble the build in the PC case.

2) it is possible that MoBo touches the PC case on some other point rather than the standoffs.
If this is the case, MoBo short circuits and fries. Due to that, it's crucial that MoBo touches the PC case only with the standoffs since area around the standoffs are sealed and grounded. Usually a loose screw between MoBo and MoBo tray is enough to bridge the cap and fry the MoBo.

3) static discharge.
Human body collects and holds quite a bit of static electricity in, especially when having dry skin and wearing certain materials (e.g polyester). To avoid static discharge, wear neutral materials (e.g cotton) and avoid walking and assembling PC on the carpet. While static discharge isn't harmful for humans, sometimes causing a light pain, it's devastating to the very sensitive electronics, like MoBo, RAM, CPU etc.
Before i service my PCs, i always ground myself by touching the metal central heating system radiator. Touching the metal side of the fridge/washing machine when they are plugged in the mains gives the same grounding effect.

At this point, if i were you, i'd switch to the Intel side with new CPU-MoBo-RAM cobo and get a new PC case as well. Good thing about Intel is that CPUs have on-board graphics and there's no need for dedicated GPU for system to work. This makes the breadboarding and any video signal issue troubleshooting much easier.

 

[Humboldt_K]

Thanks for the detailed response Aeacus. I’m going to rule that the root of all my issues was from the case. Everything is brand new, except for the case.. I reused an old case from cybertron pc. The motherboard was a really tight fit, only having like 1.5-2.5 millimeters between the top of power supply and bottom of the motherboard. The standoffs were built into the case, and there are two that were in areas of the motherboard where it said “case standoff keep out zone” so I put electrical tape over those two standoffs which should have not caused a short. This is the 3rd gaming rig I’ve tried building and had no problems with the first two rigs I ever built. I’m going to buy a new case, and I rma’d both processors, the 3rd motherboard and ram and I’m going to try one last time.. Do you think it’s possible something from the peripherals such as case fans or bad wiring cause the short? There were a lot of molex connectors in the front of the case, like 7 of them and only 3 were labeled, two labeled fan 1 & 2 and one labeled power so I only connected to those 3 out of the 7 that were in the case.

 

[Aeacus]

Without knowing the make and model of that old PC case, i can't tell why it had 7x molex connectors there. To know where they all go, just follow the power cables and look where the other end connects.

If there is any short in the powered molex connector, good quality PSU catches it and kicks in it's protection by shutting down the entire system. Lesser quality PSUs may not catch the sort circuiting happening. Unplugged molex connectors that aren't part of the PSU's power cables are unpowered and on their own, they can't create short circuit.
But bad wiring can cause sort circuit, especially when the wire/connector is damaged. Fan wires are the thinnest of them all and it's easy to damage/crush them. Also, fans use the 12V rail, which also powers the most of the components inside the PC (CPU, MoBo, GPU). Storage drives, RAM and some parts of the MoBo (e.g southbridge, built-in HD audio chip) doesn't use 12V rail. They use either 5V or 3.3V rail.

 

[Humboldt_K]

Without knowing the make and model of that old PC case, i can't tell why it had 7x molex connectors there. To know where they all go, just follow the power cables and look where the other end connects.

If there is any short in the powered molex connector, good quality PSU catches it and kicks in it's protection by shutting down the entire system. Lesser quality PSUs may not catch the sort circuiting happening. Unplugged molex connectors that aren't part of the PSU's power cables are unpowered and on their own, they can't create short circuit.
But bad wiring can cause sort circuit, especially when the wire/connector is damaged. Fan wires are the thinnest of them all and it's easy to damage/crush them. Also, fans use the 12V rail, which also powers the most of the components inside the PC (CPU, MoBo, GPU). Storage drives, RAM and some parts of the MoBo (e.g southbridge, built-in HD audio chip) doesn't use 12V rail. They use either 5V or 3.3V rail.

There’s 7 or 8 extra molex’s for extra fans, the case has a 6 fan controller on the front of the case. So I needed up getting a 4th motherboard replacement, and RMA’s on both my CPU’s. Tested the Corsair ram in my spare PC and it luckily didn’t fry. I also ordered a new PC case. Built it tonight and everything seems to work fine on the first build attempt, except the old HDD, that was somehow fried as well so I’m getting a replacement. In all I went through 3 motherboards, a PSU and two processors. I wish I could know exactly what caused this issue, im ruling the case as a big factor but yet it worked fine with the old build that was in it.