well are people forgeting something

[noko]

At some point in time you where an amateur, what did you do to become what you are today? What training did you go through to get where you are now? Didn't you flip burgers sometime in your life, or have some petty job before you got proficient at what you do now. Kelder fate depends on his actions, his actions only. Who am I? Can you predict my fate as well? or yours? Blair Witch project was not an animation as you say, the point was that professional work is not limited to a select few with the best tools. If you are trying to motivate Kelder then my hat is off to you if he proves you wrong. I do think you touched on a key point on the inner drive to create art that must be there to work in any art, may it be movies, music or 3d modelling and animations. I am really interested in what drove you to do 3d work and how you maintain that drive. Your sometimes harsh criticism of Kelder may actually be a blessing, I don't know if he see's it that way yet. Still you had a starting point in life pooping your diapers like the rest of us and began to crawl eating bugs like the rest of us before you knew better before you walked. I disagree with you if you are saying that you need the latest and most high end tools to do professional work, that I find very false. A piece of burnt wood and paper can be transformed into something that is atonishing by a true artist. No need for the latest high equipment that will be obsolete in a matter of months, it is the human inner drive that creates master pieces. Why be limited to movie type settings of building collasping and people running from cars, yawn, when a whole new world can be created with unthought of dimensions, that is art, not copying others.

Well to eat your <b>C kie</b> and have it too, gotta get <b>Rade n II</b><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 06/07/01 02:57 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Guest]

"However turning off objects is often no option eg. car exploding with characters running away and shop fronts collapsing...they have to be animated in relation to each other...hence the use of a pro 3D card."
This is always an option, you can turn down the detail of the object very easily. Also, the only time there would be the problem is if you have to have the camera move or move the entire scene. Dual planes would allow you to animate everything separately without too much trouble. You don't seem to understand that max runs without professional hardware. The MX would crap out before the likes of a wildcat and firegl but you wouldn't be left out, by no means. You claimed before that your Oxygen VX1 doesn't give you any problems and that it is perfectly smooth, by that you just said that YOU don't need a firegl or wildcat. So where is your logic now? You've written yourself off by saying that. What I am trying to tell you is that the MX will have enough power to get you buy and when it does crap out it is on the 3d artist's job to get through with his skill, which is why it is good for non-professionals to use lesser hardware to start out so they learn more.

Back in high school, when I did my final for animation I was on a very demanding schedule. If I was ever idle because of rendering I lost time I could be working on the animation. I got up at 7:00am and worked on it until I had to go to school. I'd go for a few hours taking the classes which I needed to (even skipping a lot of them around the end) and then come back home and work until I had to fall asleep. All this while working a part time job and school basketball. If I ever got up in the morning to find something still rendering (which was often) I was [-peep-] for that time until it finished. Don't you dare not tell me that rendering times is not important! Your a cad user, you hardly ever render and when you do it is most likely the final. I can see where your coming from. If you have two computers then great! Have one all for rendering and the other solely for viewport speed. If that was the case then you'd go for nothing short of dual Pentium 4's.

Point being, I've shown you the benchmarks that prove without a shred of doubt that a geforce 2 series card can and does perform that of yester years pro cards, making oxygen cards out of the price/performance loop. I know for a fact that many animation houses out there use nvidia cards, I suspect most are game developers, which I am gearing towards. Now that games are getting higher detail I needed to fallow.

Now about what you said about the other guy and his experience years ago. This wasn't max's early years. This was 3d studio dos R3 and R4. A program which wasn't really used for animations because it’s keyframe was pretty poor, although R4 was much better. You where pretty much limited to just moving the objects in the best characteristic way you could with morphing. That didn't really exist back then. My prof at my high school showed me mags from the early 90's and I remember one article being a picture of a dragonfly, which was bad by todays standards but was state of the art back then. On there top of the line machine it took 2 days to render. Now take today, if you where to create the best life like looking dragonfly today it would take minutes not days. This shows you what kind of power todays machines have that are accessible to anyone to use in this manner.

It isn't what you know, it is how you use what you know. You have no clue who I am and you judge me and say that people know more about animation here, who? you? Thats a laugh. If I were to be looking for a job in animation then I'd need to know a lot more and be able to do a lot more. I know a guy that was worse than I was a year ago, he went to animation school, now he is working at mainframe, not exactly Pixar but still pretty good and he gets paid to do something that he loves. Even if I got paid just enough to get me by then I'd still do it. Even if I never got a job in animation then I'd still do it because I like it. I bet if you ask every animator out there, they will tell you that the best part of it is their own personal achievements and self praise and that is what makes them do good work, not having the absolute best hardware can give.

Stop trying to tell me you know something about animation tonestar because you’ve proven that you don’t. Your only stance is that you need only professional hardware and that alone to be an animator. Maybe that was true 2 years ago when game cards where years behind pro cards but that just isn’t the case anymore.

 

[Guest]

Aug! My package just came but I didn't have the cash to pay for it! I guess I'll have to wait for tmw. After I get it I'll post how high I got it to oc and my temps with the case mods I've done. I guess that means you guys won't be seeing much of me anymore. Been nice talking to you, especially you noko.

 

[noko]

Good luck, just realize you make your own luck. Yes do work hard at your trade. Stop by once in awhile but please don't get side tracked here, cough cough, like myself. Also thanks.

Well to eat your <b>C kie</b> and have it too, gotta get <b>Rade n II</b><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 06/07/01 03:31 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Kelledin]

You seem to be obsessed with trying to discredit m_kelder. What did he ever do to you anyways? Did he, like ergeorge, produce some other bit of proof that you're a fraud? I wouldn't be surprised if he did.

Kelledin

"/join #hackerz. See the Web. DoS interesting people."

 

[Guest]

He is sure trying to make everyone believe he knows all to be known with this issue but he really doesn't know much at all, he just repeats what someone else tells him. It is like a semi mechanic telling someone how to fix a Mclaren F1.

 

[AeroSnoop]

Wow your really an a$$hole aren't you? Why don't you stop talking like your some hot [-peep-] and actually show us some of your work?

Whats that you say -- you can't? Well I figured anyways..

 

[Ncogneto]

Hey this is way off topic but I was wondering if any of you guys have had any expeirance with this monitor....
<A HREF="http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1243934111" target="_new">http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1243934111</A>

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!

 

[Guest]

Someone could go on argueing with you for years kelder and you'd still be talking crap. Since you've put so much time into animation tell us where we can view some of your work?

And point us to something that says kelder or m_kelder, don't try and take credit for someone else's work.

And for those that are keen to see my work, tell me a CAD site where you can post your stuff (cos I haven't found one yet) and I will.
All that crap you said before about animating on dual planes was totally irrelavent to my point. You obviously don't even understand the situation I'm trying to depict, of course you wouldn't, you've never used the software.
And all this waffle about the rendering times you put forward...it must have been a feature length film for you to commit so much rendering time to it. How long was it in your dream...30 seconds....ummm sorry the figures don't add up. Mega time rendering= long animation. Unless of course your incredibly stupid. !!Bingo!!
As for CAD people hardly ever rendering...this goes to show very little you do know. Most draftspeople work in "shaded" mode (there are various kinds of shading) and when you watch a good one work you will see them rotating and flipping the object...adding...extruding..dimensioning..whatever...all in real time. You don't always have the oppurtunity to work in wireframe mode...particularly when you are working in accurate virtual space. So yes kelder, it does take some power to drive all these events in real time.

"I know a guy that was worse than I was a year ago, he went to animation school, now he is working at mainframe, not exactly Pixar but still pretty good and he gets paid to do something that he loves".....

So is this your way of telling us you are in fact lame and stupid? Why aren't you working at one of these studio's?

You know kelder, if you didn't try and pretend to be someone your not and not spill garbage wherever you went I'd have no problem with you.

"no kelder....you can't shoot goblins in wordpad"

 

[AeroSnoop]

"Someone could go on argueing with you for years kelder and you'd still be talking crap. Since you've put so much time into animation tell us where we can view some of your work?"

Please tonestar don't make me laugh any harder. I have been asking the same from you.. can you actually read the posts?

 

[Guest]

".. can you actually read the posts?"...can you areodope?
Ummm....can't paste CAD drawings at this post, so have you found a CAD site where I can?



"no kelder....you can't shoot goblins in wordpad"

 

[Kelledin]

Find some free web space somewhere and post screenshots.

Kelledin

"/join #hackerz. See the Web. DoS interesting people."

 

[Guest]

I know you like to avoid posts kelder so I thought I'd make life a little more convient for you by copying this post across:

Agreed, a little more diplomacy and tolerance would be better recieved in the forum. Unfortunetly when you attempt to explain a simple concept or situation half a dozen times(eg. kelder), at half a dozen different posts (eg. kelder), you get a little weary of that strategy. You see kelder comes here and professes to understand 3D hardware. Yet when ncogneto required answers to establishing his render farm kelder conveniently disapeared from a post he had religiously visited every few hours.

No where in this entire forum does kelder divulge his profession, or his professional perspective with regard to 3D software, why, because he doesn't know how to use any. So therefore he infact doesn't have a professional opinion. When faced with a stack of technical evidence posted against him he conveniently disappears. I infact I am still waiting for an answer to a question a had earlier in another post which was:

Why kelder do you, YOU SPECIFICALY need an ultra fast cpu, hard drive etc?

....he has not replied because he knows in fact he does not require one because he does nothing that warants such a machine. He cannot speak about issues like driver stability and aftermarket resolution support because these are issues to people who use high end software day in and day out who are expected to deliver something in their work enviroment. They are not issues to people who surf the net and create a sphere in a 3D program and claim to have talent.
So basically in an attempt to halt the avalanche of stupidity in order to save the valuable members in the forum you bring out your last mechanism of defence...abuse.

If you have had the misfortune of coming across kelders trail of vomit too many times it becomes an easy option. The best I can hope for is that I may have saved some people from listening to kelder and wasting their money.

I tried diplomacy in the my first year out of school...it didn't work...now my attitude is...if you can't do the job resign or I will terminate your employment. The CEO has been rather attentive the last couple of years, we will post our highest ever turnover and net profit this financial year (and we got rid of the entire marketing department the year before bar one)....and every time he pats me on the back I know my little battles are worth it.






"no kelder....you can't shoot goblins in wordpad"

 

[Kelledin]

Until you actually post some proof that you are what you claim to be, you are in no position to knock m_kelder's occupation. It's about time for you to put up or shut up.

Oh, and m_kelder's probably not replying because he's a little too civilized to argue for the last word with an idiot.

Kelledin

"/join #hackerz. See the Web. DoS interesting people."

 

[Guest]

Ye I don't mind putting up my work. Why I need to prove anything to a vegetable like you though is worth rethinking. I didn't know kelder had an occupation....he always try's to hide that one from me. If he's too civilized to argue for the last word why on earth are you butting in?

"no kelder....you can't shoot goblins in wordpad"

 

[Guest]

lol tonestar, you really need to stop jumping to conclusions (I think I already said this to you before many times)

"Yet when ncogneto required answers to establishing his render farm kelder conveniently disapeared from a post he had religiously visited every few hours."
I don't know anything about rendering farms, is that a crime? I also could not get on the message boards for about 1 or 2 weeks. You can even ask fredi as I emailed him about it and we got it straitened out. See how your bias towards me gets in the way and makes yourself look like an ass?

"So therefore he infact doesn't have a professional opinion. When faced with a stack of technical evidence posted against him he conveniently disappears. I infact I am still waiting for an answer to a question a had earlier in another post which was"

Technical evidence? You’ve never posted anything, never! All you do is push your opinion around you got from somewhere. Take how you only refered to a benchmark that was over a year old, that didn’t even include a geforce 2. Do you know what drivers are? They do improve as time goes by you know, a year in the computer world is like ten years compared to anything else.

I never said I had a professional opinion. You called me a fraud and say that I'm not a professional and I say "hey, your right, I'm not a professional and I have never said I was.” I just post the technical data, which backs up what I say, and you just reply with insults and avoid what the benchmarks prove. I even showed you a benchmark to prove that you were wrong in saying that the oxygen line cards were better than geforce 2 gpu and you tried to change it and say that the firegl cards where better than a geforce 2 and called me a liar when I never even said that the firegl's weren't better. I've always told you from the start where my perspective comes from and the technical data to back it up. Half of what I know was told to me BY professional 3d artist at sites as discreet message board, not by another profession that isn't on the same level as animation.

"Why kelder do you, YOU SPECIFICALY need an ultra fast cpu, hard drive etc?"
Why not? Why wouldn't anyone need the fastest computer they can have? Just because I don't have the budget of an animation house doesn't mean I can't research what the best hardware is for myself!

"If you have had the misfortune of coming across kelders trail of vomit too many times it becomes an easy option. The best I can hope for is that I may have saved some people from listening to kelder and wasting their money."

I believe I've only left a trail of opinion backed by benchmarks and what I was told by professionals in the animation field. The only vomit was left by you as your curses and rants after anything I posted, even if it was a discussion if the sky was blue you'd post calling me a moron for thinking the sky is blue and say it is red with nothing to back on.

I only reply for your benefit tonestar (and to make you look like the fool you are I must admit). People reading this see that I post benchmarks to show why I say something and you just rant without anything backing you up, nothing at all. I prove you wrong and you just try and hide that fact by cursing. The fact is, I’ve been honest here but if you still want to call me an idiot for saying something even though the benchmarks proving me right are right in your face then go right ahead, just don’t expect people to take you seriously because they check most of the things I say I’m sure. Your already making a bad rep here by posting garbage that you can’t seem to stop posting. I’m done with you now, I’ve shown every benchmark that I know of to try and get your to understand but your skull is way too thick. The more crap you post about me the more people will be reassured that you are indeed just a little man that can’t admit he is wrong. I really can’t believe that you think I am some sort of fraud trying to make maybe ten people believe I am someone I’m not in this small corner on the internet. Sounds like something you’d be trying to do…. Sorry, I’m getting my hardware soon and won’t be here much at all because I’ll be working on animation while you’re here still wasting your breathe. No more of you

 

[camieabz]

Come on man.

Show us what you are.

Scared???

<b>
"Now drop your weapons or I'll kill him with this deadly jelly baby."
</b>

 

[Guest]

Getting some web space is, like, doable by an 8-years old. Unless you want to keep on going and sounding like a 7-years old troll, you might as well show us something. I'm like the third or fourth person actually asking.

Btw, as far as I'm concerned, bringing the words "CAD" and "engineering" together would only make me think of the kind of 3D a civil or aerospace engineering company would do. Is that where you work? Those 3d projects would seem to me to be a universe away from feature animations. As in, final result being a simplistic animation (if it's not just a still image) with absolutely no eye-candy whatsoever.

You remind me of the good ol' BBS era. Always at least one dang name-caller per board. We just couldn't get away from it. Amazing. Hehehe...

 

[mjdunn]

If you were not an ass you might be more believable

96.3 % of Statistics are made up.

 

[Guest]

Ho man, that was pretty fun! It think it was the most funny topic I ever seen in a while. And I'm 100% with you kelder! You don't need a F1 to appreciate a road don't you tonestar? A Civic must be enough, it will just take more time to finish your trip. You just need a F1 when you have to do it pretty fast. In the same way you don't need a professionnal card if you want to do some home-made rendering. Specialy if this year game card beat last year professionnal card.

See ya!

Where the <b>hell</b> is that AnyKey?

 

[Guest]

"I even showed you a benchmark to prove that you were wrong in saying that the oxygen line cards were better than geforce 2 gpu "....so show me where I said that exactly, cos I didn't.

"…. Sorry, I’m getting my hardware soon and won’t be here much at all because I’ll be working on animation while you’re here still wasting your breathe"....I don't think so kelder...you don't have a passion for animation otherwise your work would already be up somewhere. You are a talker and talking is what you do best.

So how come your friend got a job at mainframe and you didn't?...Maybe its time to give up the whole charade?

"no kelder....you can't shoot goblins in wordpad"

 

[Guest]

well I said that I wouldn't be here again but I don't have my hardware yet.

"so show me where I said that exactly, cos I didn't." That has been your whole arguement since the first time we had this sort of discussion months ago. You said you can't do anything with a geforce 2 and you need a professional card, I've shown you that game cards can perform better than the oxygen line of pro cards so what you said is wrong.

"animation otherwise your work would already be up somewhere" it is. I've posted some of my work in the past but not here at tomshardware but that is irrelivant.

"So how come your friend got a job at mainframe and you didn't?...Maybe its time to give up the whole charade?" He isn't my friend, he is a friend of a friend and he went to a school which I can't afford, that is why he has a job and I don't.

 

[Kelledin]

Why I need to prove anything to a vegetable like you though is worth rethinking.

Right...I remember that in another thread, you challenged my claim to an occupation, got an answer to your challenge, and never replied.

Oh, and if not to me, try proving your worth to the rest of the forum, where your credibility is currently zero and dropping fast.

If he's too civilized to argue for the last word why on earth are you butting in?

I'm merely pointing out why you get no respect.

Kelledin

"/join #hackerz. See the Web. DoS interesting people."

 

[lamer_gamer]

You have to be the biggest ass that I've ever seen post in this forum. You dis Kelder over & over again, and wtf for? You have been asked repeatedly to show your stuff to back up what you say, and you never do! And I think we've all figured out why! This is a great forum and it deserves better than the likes of you! So STFU!

My brain has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down

 

[Guest]

"I've posted some of my work in the past but not here at tomshardware".....so where is it exactly?

As for the rest asking about proof, I will look into web space this week and might even learn flash so I have something a little more dynamic to show. I've started already actually and am making rollover buttons and drop down menu's so it shouldn't be long.

Excellent kelder, I'm glad to see your keen to get into your animation and I hope that in a few months nobody will be able to call you a monkey spanker cos you'll have something to show. Maybe its in you, maybe we'll all be paying to see your work one day and maybe you'll be able to get your name off the "wannabe pretender" list. Till then your still a wanker and always will be till you either make it or resolve to another career. This isn't my philosophy but that of the world's.

"no kelder....you can't shoot goblins in wordpad"