well are people forgeting something

[AeroSnoop]

Right, well thats a start. The fact is though that you should not be calling anyone a wannabe when you have still not posted any of YOUR work. Sure you say you will but that does not change the fact that you have not YET.

Tonestar, people who do professional work must also have a professional attitude. Being a professional means you respect other people, even if you may not agree with them. If you come in here and only try to put people down do you think myself or others here would ever want to do business with you? Show respect to others and you will recieve it back.

 

[noko]

Thats getting better, you have a weird way of motivating someone. I wonder if everyone at your work place calls you an ASS. Still coaches (good coaches) are rarely sweet peas and are down right flamming assholes. Works better when you have a balance of negative and positive motivational techniques, overdo one of the other most people stop listening to you. Only reasons why you wouldn't place your work for our review are:

1. You are a fake
2. You don't think your work is that good
3. Scared of our criticism
4. Doubt of our ability to critique your work

You should have no problem exporting your cad work into 3dsMax or any other high end 3d program for rendering and subsequent posting on the net. If not then why where you arguing with m_kelder in the first place? You could also just render and do a screen shot in the cad program you are working in. This Flash $hit has no bearing, trying to dress something up which isn't good? Just post your stuff, I am sure it will be better then what I can produce, it should be. I will tell you what I see plain and simple, I do have a engineering back ground myself.

Well to eat your <b>C kie</b> and have it too, gotta get <b>Rade n II</b>

 

[Guest]

From your last post I was tempted to call you a wise man. I never suggested that flash would or could dress up anything, I simply thought about making an appealing site rather than just blob a diagram on a page.

Sounds like your already biased noko? You've got alot of questions but no answers, so how about you tell us what YOU can do with a computer. Don't have to though, cos I sure don't care.

The question in my head is, why would I want to go to any effort for the halfwits in this forum? BUT I will, even if it is just to prove a point. I will submit a wireframe drawing to a 3D site so you can appreciate the complexity of some of the components I design, however it will not be wrapped in a shiny reflective chrome material (sorry to those that think the world revolves around shiny reflective objects).

Your right, good coaches are rarely sweet as peas, and a similar reality check goes for any new draftspeople or engineers that get employed at my firm. People love to prove their worth, so rather than let them talk forever you got to put it to them. Especially when they ask for a new computer, you got to get them to show you how and why it comes to a crawl before you right off thousands in new components. By that time though they're really kickin butt and its all worth it. I find they either get right into it and become an important part of the equation or whinge themselves out of there before we've laid 6 months salary on them.

Life is simple really, it just has a complex procedure.

And so it is for kelder, I however feel he will do what he does best and keep making excuses, not for me, but for himself.

His response about not being able to get a job is absolute garbage, even I know there are tons of videos, interactive CD's, books and online tutorials that can excel any persons skills to incredible hights. Check out 3Dluvr, digitalanimators or where ever else and examine the profiles of employed animators, most of them have a solid arts background and taught themselves the program. I was at one of them the other day and none of the profiles mentioned said anything about a formal animating education.

So kelder, will you resolve to the bottom rung of maslow's hierachy of needs like most of the other talkers in this forum or will you in fact be different? Your parents have let you get away with who you are but I haven't. Neither will the animation houses. If in five or so years you look back on this post with a smile then there's a good chance you will have made it, if by then you can't even remember it there might be a good chance you'll be to busy to think about it anyhow, cos you'll be flipping burgers.

"Will you have fries with that?"

Well will you kelder?

"no kelder....you can't shoot goblins in wordpad"

 

[Guest]

"Tonestar, people who do professional work must also have a professional attitude. Being a professional means you respect other people, even if you may not agree with them."

Do you really believe that AeroDope?

Do you really believe that companys or people who excel really approach everything so diplomaticaly and passively? Organisations or people at the forefront DON'T agree when something is wrong and DON'T respect the source of such falices, otherwise their own situations would be no different. ?????? .

Good minds and an aggresive approach with long and hard work make the things we all admire these days. Bull$hit is bull$hit, wether is sounds nice and soothing or offensive and humiliating. Don't gloss yourself over for the sake of the forum, think son, think. Did you ever think that I in fact would be a more productive factor in kelders life than people like you who simply like to kiss ass? His parents and friends probably do the same, but that hasn't helped the poor twit get a job has it? I'm trying to get him out of a coma and your encouraging him to keep his eyes shut.

"no kelder....you can't shoot goblins in wordpad"

 

[noko]

A wire frame would be more than sufficient for me to tell your modelling ability. Chrome effects, lighting, material selection I believe is an art in itself, also animation. I am basically learning 3d modeling, lighting, animation as a hobby, nothing serious using TrueSpace5. Also learning to program in C++. Spent most of my life in Nuclear energy field either operating Nuc plants and or teaching about Nuclear power. Taught mechanical theory and Electrical theory for 3 years at Naval Nuclear Power School here in Orlando. As for being wise, some things yes other things no. I am always learning. Mastering one self is the biggest factor in ones life, self disclipline out weighs outside coaching. I've have had a number of failures in my life but getting back up on the horse is maybe more important then not falling off.

Well to eat your <b>C kie</b> and have it too, gotta get <b>Rade n II</b>

 

[Guest]

I'd like to remind everybody that tonestar has a <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=faq&notfound=1&code=1" target="_new">record</A> of lying and fraud in this forum. I would recommend that you disregard his posts and do not reply to them.



<i>Cognite Tute</i>
(Think for Yourself)

 

[Guest]

I'd like to remind everybody that tonestar has a <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=faq&notfound=1&code=1" target="_new">record</A> of lying and fraud in this forum. I would recommend that you disregard his posts and do not reply to them.

<i>Cognite Tute</i>
(Think for Yourself)

 

[Guest]

ergeorge...there is no need to recreate the same post twice, you ought to delete one.

Interesting noko, how come you picked Truespace 5?

Mastering one self is the biggest factor in ones life, self disclipline out weighs outside coaching....true ...true....

I've have had a number of failures in my life but getting back up on the horse is maybe more important then not falling off....yep tuff one to learn though.





"no kelder....you can't shoot goblins in wordpad"

 

[noko]

Well he does have the oppuntunity to show us where his expertise is by posting some of his work. I hope no one is over critical either if he does. If he doesn't, well I will probably just do as you say plain and simple. I hope he turns about to be an asset for all of us. I think we all make mistakes sometimes in our posts or our perception of someone else. Still most people have something that can teach us. Sometimes it just doesn't come in a box of chocolates.

Well to eat your <b>C kie</b> and have it too, gotta get <b>Rade n II</b>

 

[camieabz]

You sound like a kid trying to be an adult.

What a pile of crap!

<b>
"Now drop your weapons or I'll kill him with this deadly jelly baby."
</b>

 

[noko]

Well I use to do some work on my Amiga using Caligari24, which is the same company that produces Truespace. Really I am more use to the interface, plus the cost is somewhat cheaper then the high end 3d modellers/animation packages as in 3dsMax or Lightwave. That pretty much sums it up my choice in Truespace5.

Well to eat your <b>C kie</b> and have it too, gotta get <b>Rade n II</b>

 

[Guest]

....cool....

"no kelder....you can't shoot goblins in wordpad"

 

[Guest]

>Well he does have the oppuntunity to show us where his
>expertise is by posting some of his work.

Will you believe it is his own work if he does?

Given what I've posted, why would you?

>I think we all make mistakes sometimes in our posts or our
>perception of someone else.

Except this wasn't a mistake. It was a complete lie, a fabrication he created in an attempt to discredit me (instead of arguing the merits of his position).

I've given him every chance to move beyond this incident. I don't bring it up lightly. In fact, prior to today, I think others have brought it up more then I have.

But he keeps coming back with his foul mouth, insults, distortions, and other B.S. I'm sorry to disrupt the thread here, but I've had it with this a$$hole.


<i>Cognite Tute</i>
(Think for Yourself)

 

[Guest]

Wow ergeorge, I proved you to be wrong as well as an idiot in regards to the Anandtech Benchmark and now your running round the forum making all sorts of posts. Will that somehow magicaly convert the benchmark and corrupt the Polar coordinates test? Doubtfull. Your wrong. I'm right. I told you to prepare an appology didn't I? But you had to completely dismiss the P3 platform without any testing, any consultation and make a fool of yourself. Where's my appology? If your not going to appologise, why the hell not?

"no kelder....you can't shoot goblins in wordpad"

 

[Guest]

>If your not going to appologise, why the hell not?

I did not dismiss the PIII platform. I dismissed the recent Anandtech Photoshop benchmark results for the dual PIII.

At worst, that is a difference of opinion, and needs no apology from either party. Your continued distortion of my opinion could do with an apology though.

That's all I have to say until we get an explanation for your <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=faq&notfound=1&code=1" target="_new">lying and fabrication</A>.



<i>Cognite Tute</i>
(Think for Yourself)

 

[Guest]

when you said..."In your world, failure may be an option.
It's not an option in my world. If it doesn't complete the benchmark, it fails. End of story. That goes for any platform."...it sure sounded like a dismisal...

"I dismissed the recent Anandtech Photoshop benchmark results for the dual PIII."...umm you in fact said in one of your other posts words to the effect of "anadtech agreed with me and left the P3 off the graph."...very, very silly thing for anyone to do benchmarking cpu performance don't you think?

If in fact is was the mainboard or some other component that caused a failure in the Polar Coordinates test don't you think it would have been wiser to sort the problem and replace that component considering is was a CPU benchmark?

Oh, ergeorge...fundamentals? Basic logic? Yes?

Besides if your now saying you agree why run around the forum avoiding the issue. C'mon, I think I deserve that appology don't you?

Cognite Tute- You sure didn't, you relied on Anandtech to do it for you.





"no kelder....you can't shoot goblins in wordpad"

 

[Guest]

I'm not avoiding the issue. I've said all I have to say on that issue. If you don't agree with my opinion, fine. That's your right. I won't apologize for my opinion.

And I urge any other readers (if there are any who give a damn about this issue) to please read what I wrote, rather then rely on this liar's twisted & distorted interpratation of what I wrote.

Now how about you?
Stop dancing around this as you have for the past 2 months.

Will you admit to <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=faq&notfound=1&code=1" target="_new">lying and fabrication</A> on this forum? How many other times have you lied to the members of this forum.



<i>Cognite Tute</i>
(Think for Yourself)

 

[dhlucke]

Holy sh1t tonestar!! Were you born in a freak'n barn? Why don't you use some damn courtesy when posting on a public board?! Have your mom wash your mouth out with soap. Are you twelve or what?

<font color=red>Amd or Intel? Who cares?? Not me...</font color=red>

 

[Guest]

Whether or not he tries to do this or not, he constantly tries to change what you said into another context.

I once told him that a single athlon processor could compete with a dual P3 setup at rendering and you blatantly insulted me for it. I showed you the benchmarks proving that it could and you had nothing else to say about rendering speeds. You claimed that rendering speeds didn't matter once I showed you the benchmarks and then you tried to tell me that the only thing that mattered was viewport speeds. I told you how if someone only had one machine to use then rendering speeds would become many times more important, I even told you my very own experience with rendering times impeding creation time but you ignored that issue.

While I never disputed the importance of viewport speeds, you tried to paint a face on me that I said it didn’t matter and thus you claimed I was a fraud because of words you put in my mouth? You stuck to that for a long time and then went as far as to say I was an idiot for not buying oxygen pro card. You claim an oxygen card could kill a geforce 2. I explained to you that the oxygen line cards were now not a viable purchase and that a geforce 2 card could equal or out perform a oxygen card for hundreds of dollars less. You pronounced me as an idiot and a fraud for saying that because you didn’t know that what I said was actually the truth. You failed to realize that what you believed for sometime now was false (take the benchmark you referred to that was over a year old). Times change buddy, you obviously haven’t been keeping up with the change. Take how you didn’t even know the athlon was a more powerful renderer than any intel cpu. Athlon has been out way more than a year and has been outperforming the P3 in rendering for all this time and you didn’t know. You claim to know all there is to know about how hardware performs under certain circumstances but you don’t. You try and push your opinion that is based solely on cad background on every part of computers. You fail to realize that 3d animation and cad are similar but very different when it comes to hardware needs. You should be using a wildcat or firegl card but no less if your in cad. Cad prduces way more poly’s than animation and so a cad person can’t claim to know what is good for animation. You draft, if your happy with that then it is fine by me but for anyone that likes to do animation you need to have elements in the work that would never be in cad like special effect that can only be made to look good through many renders, but rendering time doesn’t matter right tonestar? Even in that small reference you are wrong and if you want any sort of particles in your animation you are looking at rendering times going through the roof.


When ever I show you data or tell you something you insulted me, called me a fraud and a liar, made sexual references which you have no clue which mine are, made fun of my family you don't know, attempted to put words in my mouth... the list goes on and on of your tactics to avoid the real issue. I haven’t seen you post any real benchmarks proving anything you say besides "my oxygen card is perfectly smooth, your an idiot for saying game cards can run professional apps, your mother smells, your a fraud and you owe me an appology..." You just assumed that game cards couldn’t perform that of an oxygen card so you went on that trying to make me look like an idiot when I actually come out with evidence proving you wrong, who’s the idiot? If you read back you'd see how you eagerly said that you copied the benchmarks I posted so I couldn't edit them out, proving me a moron. Read back further and you'd see that I posted those benchmarks to only prove that a geforce 2 could beat an oxygen card, not all pro cards. You even went as far as to try and make everyone believe I said a geforce 2 could beat a firegl or wildcat card which I never said (just an example of you putting words in my mouth). You never replied about that you know. That was one of the most heated topics where you tried to claim that I was a fraud and was just pretended to know something about animation. When I showed the proof you ignored them.

I think one of the most outrageous things you tried to say was that the athlon MP would probably suck because it was there first try at SMP. LoL, you sure where proven wrong about that lately weren’t you.

Bottem line, I’ve shown you benchmarks that where posted within a month proving nearly all your claims to be incorrect. This may be just because you didn’t know any better but you claiming everyone to be stupid and only you have any brains is quite laughable considering all the above. I don’t care if you were just fooling around with us, if you were lying, or if you just tried to put your expertise knowledge where it didn’t belong. The only thing I care about is that you drop the deconstructive attitude, back up your claims with proof and except when your wrong. This isn’t asking for much but when you ask someone like you that must have been acting this way for a very long time it maybe a lot to ask.

Instead of calling names, why don’t you ask them to clarify what the benchmarks that you don’t understand mean or why they come to the conclusions you don’t. I think I have laid this all out in a way that you can understand that a cad doesn’t know what is good for a 3d artist. Maybe you should keep that in mind before you post anything. You should say to yourself “Do I really know what the real issue here is or should I try and impose my opinion even though I am the wrong person to say much because I really don’t have any background or even read a single benchmark about this particular issue?”

I'm not calling you a fraud here and I'm not trying to piss you off, I am simply letting you know that your arrogant attitude and view that only comes from cad doesn't have much merit in everything you talk about here.

 

[Guest]

Well kelder you have gone to so trouble that I feel I ought to respond.

1. Single Athlon vs Dual P3...I haven't yet seen a bench that has the Athlon leading in a VIEWPORT render test. NOT an image render. Plus you got to stick a card with multithreaded drivers in a dual P3 box to make the test worthwhile. Did you think of that?

2. Yes, I think you are an idiot for not buying the GVX-1 for $120. A gpu, multithreaded drivers and application optimised drivers with a glint rasteriser. Yep that was dumb.

3. GF2 vs Oxygen cards? Which cards are you refering to and are you talking about viewport acceleration or texturing or what? I know you love the GF2, but you ought to go to somewhere like 3Dlinks and see if you can tell people why that card won't let Maya boot or why they crash in Max. Also there are quite a few cards in the Oxygen range.The 210 and 420 may in fact beat the GF2 however you'd have to dig up two identical benchmarks in the pro and games catagories to compare these. So do you have a GF2/210/420 comparison? Not just for texturing and lighting either but a comprehensive one? Plus you never mention stability and optimised driver sets.

4. CAD does not produce way more poly's than most animations. In fact the opposite is true. Even when I create a tight mesh for tool paths it still doesn't compare to most animated scenes. Your in lala land with that one.

5. Dual P3 will infact increase viewport acceleration considerably, as well as polygon manipulation.

6. With regard to dual Athlons, give them a chance, they have only been out a short time. Much has yet to be resolved with regards to stability and industry acceptance.

7. Your excuse "I didn't go to an animation school" was not accepted.

8. You have wasted alot of words to say not much at all. I think I have responded where required.

9. I think the less time you spend wasting surfing the web and the more time modelling and animating the better for you it will be. You seem to be more interested in hardware than actually persuing your vocation. Maybe you ought to build or sell computers? You make more of an effort to understand it (futile perhaps) than you do modelling or animating. Maybe thats why your friend got a job and you didn't?

10. I feel sorry for your parents.

"no kelder....you can't shoot goblins in wordpad"

 

[Guest]

1. Athlon doesn't lead in viewports, but it is hardly behind much.

2. Which doesn't amount to much, benchmarks prove what the card is worth with what ever it features, the gpu from nvidia beats it. simple

3. maybe if you actually read any of the benchmarks gave you you'd see that it was the Oxygen VX1PRO and Oxygen GVX420 which are the best oxygen cards 3dlabs produces. Even 3dlabs doesn't show benchmarks against nvidia cards
http://www.3dlabs.com/product/card/wildcat_II_5110/wildcat_II_5110_intro.htm#benchmark
And if you actually read the benchmarks that I showed you, you would have already known that nvidia doesn't just beat it in texturing but also in lighting and matches it in wireframe for hundreds less $$$.
4. True, when your talking a full scene animations will have way more but you'd hardly ever deal with the whole thing and when you do, even a firegl card will crawl just as much as a geforce 2.

5. True, but you can say that about any dual cpu setup.

6. "stability" The likes of tyan wouldn't produce their board if it wasn't, they are the top server board maker and wouldn't jeopardize that if they didn't have confidence in the dual athlon mp setup. "industry acceptance" what does that matter? No one likes change in the industry but they won't ignore benchmarks like you do.

7. "Your excuse "I didn't go to an animation school" was not accepted." LOL, by the likes of you? Your opinion here doesn't matter. You have no idea who I am, I only speak by what I'm told my professionals and what the reviews show. More irrelevant personal attacks by you.

8. More ignoring from you.

9. This was really funny, more of your ignorance. If you have just asked, I came here to toms forum to ask about video cards and 3dsmax, along with other forums around. I got most of my information about hardware from actual 3d sites. Why are you even here? I only know what I have to know about hardware and have been researching to find the best possible setup I can for animation on my budget for months. My reason for being here so much and not animating is simple, I sold my other stuff to buy new hardware and I am waiting for it now, slight delay in getting it which was due to me being careless.

10. More irrelevant garbage from you, thank you for proving my points with your reply.

 

[Guest]

You know Kelder. You probably ought to just drop this. You're just spending a lot of time arguing with a liar & fraud. Even if you win, what's that victory worth?

<i>Cognite Tute</i>
(Think for Yourself)

 

[Guest]

true, but I got nothing else to do before my upgrades arrive.

 

[noko]

<A HREF="http://www.caligari.com/gallery/onemanshow/MartinLovvold/index.html" target="_new">http://www.caligari.com/gallery/onemanshow/MartinLovvold/index.html</A>

Well to eat your <b>C kie</b> and have it too, gotta get <b>Rade n II</b>

 

[Guest]

Now theres a kid who WILL make it. So little resources, so much passion. I think you've got to know when something's not for you, so you can explore other options and maybe find out what your really passionate about so that one day you might actually be successfull at it. Huh Kelder? I'm not going to go on argueing with you kelder, now that I have realised your just young and not retarded, anyhow good luck with whatever you buy with whatever you do, I just hope your not still here in 6 months talking BS and pretending to be an animator. And I hope you have some work up on the web like the millions of other people that enjoy this type of work.
"no kelder....you can't shoot goblins in wordpad"