Jul 28, 2019
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Hello all, one question is making me sleepless is do the PSU OEM brand matters that much, after reading numerous forum post's I came to know that Seasonic is the best OEM as well as Brand, so I have selected two models and buy either one of them for my current rig as well as upcoming rig. (Please Suggest PSU that are manufactured by Seasonic )

they are (1)

SEASONIC SS-650KMIII SMPS 650 WATT 80 PLUS GOLD CERTIFICATION FULLY MODULAR PSU WITH ACTIVE PFC
URL: https://mdcomputers.in/seasonic-ss-650kmiii-650-watt-80-plus-gold-ss-650km3.html

And (2)

SEASONIC SSR-750GD SMPS 750 WATT 80 PLUS GOLD CERTIFICATION FULLY MODULAR PSU
URL:https://mdcomputers.in/seasonic-prime-gold-750-watt-80-plus-gold-ssr-750gd.html

This is my current build

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 965 C3 (125w TDP)

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper n620 (modified with Noctua Fans in (Push/Pull)

MOBO: Gigabyte GA-78 LMT USB 3

Memory: G.Skill RipJaw X 4GBx4 16GB DDR3 1333MHz

GPU: Sapphire Radeon HD 6870

Storage: 2 x 2TB HDD Seagate Baracuda

Case: Cooler Master HAF 922

PSU: NO PSU, system is down.

and This Upcoming Build (then I will sell the first rig)

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 2700x

CPU Cooler: Corsair H100i V2

MOBO: Asus Rog Strix X470

Memory: Corsair Vengence LPX 16GB x 2 32GB DDR4 3000Mhz

GPU: Asus GeForce Rog Strix RTX 2060 Super OC Edition 8GB GDDR6

Storage for OS & Programs: Crucial P1 Nand NVMe 500GB M.2 &

Storage: 2 x 2TB HDD Seagate Baracuda

Case: Cooler Master HAF 922 (might require modification for the RTX)

PSU: anyone from the above.

but unfortunately, both of them are out of stock, please advice me should I wait for re-stock or buy something else, and are they good PSU's please share your thoughts.
Why I am focusing on selective OEM because, I had Corsair HX650 Gold Semi-Modular Unit in past and that failed after 6 years (No complaint on that 6 years is enough), as it has a 7 years warranty I got a replacement Unit but this time I got RM650 Gold Fully Modular but it didn't last for 2 years, after researching I came to know that the OEM of HX650 Gold was Seasonic, & the OEM of RM650 Gold was CWT (Channel Well Technologies) so I don't have any faith in CWT models and nowadays most of the Corsair PSU's are CWT OEM. according to this chart:
http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/PSUReviewDatabase.html

So the conclusion of my post is what other OEMs are better?

Seasonic

Delta Electronics

Any Thing Else.

or should I wait for the restock? of the above models.

As I am from India only a few brands are available with a handful of models.

any feedback and advice will be very much appreciated

Thanks for reading.
 
There are other good PSUs such as Super Flower Leadex, which is what EVGA uses in their top quality PSUs like the EVGA G2 and G3. Then there is Corsair who uses CWT (Channel Well Technology) for their RMx units that are also very good.

That's about all I recommend, Corsair's CWT models (RMx), EVGA's Leadex models (G2 and G3), and SeaSonic's top quality units (X-series, FOCUS/FOCUS Plus, and PRIME).

If you have a smaller budget then there are some decent FSP units like EVGA's G1+ and then there is Great Wall which is used by Corsair for their newer TXM series and a lesser CWT unit like the newer Corsair CX series.
 
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Barty1884

Titan
Moderator
It's a little simplistic to look at OEM alone.

As a fairly general idea, SeaSonic, SuperFlower and, for the most part FlexTronics are probably the only units you could reasonably look to buy a PSU based on OEM alone and no other information.

However, that doesn't mean all are created equal, or that OEM alone should be your only deciding factor. Older platforms, outsourced manufacturing etc all play a factor. For example, SeaSonic's S12III lineup is outsourced, and entry level. You simply cannot compare that with their higher end platforms, or something like SuperFlower's Leadex/Leadex II.


More specifically, CWT have good/bad/indifferent platforms, as do every other OEM. Some lean one way or the other a little more though. The RM650 should've been fine for more than a couple of years though, that's definitely strange. A lot of the RM (not RMx or RMi) were Chicony though.... not sure about the 650.

Corsair's newer lines of TX and CX (not CX-M, which is CWT) are made by Great Wall, and quality units themselves (TX > CX though). Even the CX-M isn't bad, despite being CWT.


What is available to you? and what kind of budget are you working with?
Hard to give solid recommendations without knowing what those limited brands/handful of models are.
To give you at least something to work with:
  • EVGA's G2, G3, P2, T2 (all SuperFlower, and quality units)
  • Corsair's CX, TX (GreatWall), RMi and RMx (both CWT)
  • SeaSonic from their Focus, Focus Plus, Prime, Prime Ultra lineups.
If you have a smaller budget then there are some decent FSP units like the newer Corsair CX series
Not to nitpick, but I don't believe Corsair use FSP at all. On the budget end, you'll find some HEC made. I think they're limited to the VS lineup though.
 
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Either is fine. I usually pick from Seasonic/Corsair/EVGA. However, all of them have lower end, not so good ones. It varies from models to models. Other brands have solid units too. For your location and new rig specs, any good 550+ unit is good enough but 650 is good to have for future upgrades. I will pick from cheap to expensive:
Corsair CX550 for budget but solid
Corsair Vengeance 650M, Corsair TX650M, Thermaltake toughpower 750 for better (no ranking among those three)
Corsair RM650X, top tier IMO
 

jonnyguru

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after reading numerous forum post's I came to know that Seasonic is the best OEM as well as Brand
Then you either misunderstood what you read, did selective reading, or are reading posts from people that don't know the full gamut of what's out there. ;)

In the industry, Seasonic isn't even a second tier manufacturer.
 

Barty1884

Titan
Moderator
Then you either misunderstood what you read, did selective reading, or are reading posts from people that don't know the full gamut of what's out there. ;)

In the industry, Seasonic isn't even a second tier manufacturer.
You'd be the one to know better than anybody JG, so would you mind elaborating?

Ultimately, when it comes to OEM alone (which would be a risky aspect to make your decision on solely), I would've put SeaSonic up there....

They have their dated designs, they have their outsourced builds, but AFAIK, they don't run the gamut of mediocre through good, that some of the OEMs do.
They're either "good, for their time, but dated now" or "good", no?


Out of curiosity, who would you put above SeaSonic? Following the theme of the thread, on OEM alone, no other qualifiers. SuperFlower? Flextronics? Surely not CWT, Great Wall or Chicony, who've all had some whoppers at times....?
 
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Darkbreeze

Titan
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In the industry, Seasonic isn't even a second tier manufacturer.
In WHICH industry? Enterprise? Consumer? Enthusiast? ALL of them?

I know you know your business, but I can't find any agreement for the idea that Seasonic doesn't rate as a first tier manufacturer in the consumer and OEM segment. Certainly they have platforms that are less than admirable, but as well they have platforms that are good enough to be used by many of the most highly recommended names including your own Corsair. I certainly don't, and likely won't, see any of the respectable reviewers like Aris and even those you used to work closely with on the JG site having much that isn't positive to say about the vast majority of their models. Certainly they are not untouchable, but they sure as hell aren't Great Wall either.
 

jonnyguru

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In WHICH industry? Enterprise? Consumer? Enthusiast? ALL of them?

I know you know your business, but I can't find any agreement for the idea that Seasonic doesn't rate as a first tier manufacturer in the consumer and OEM segment. Certainly they have platforms that are less than admirable, but as well they have platforms that are good enough to be used by many of the most highly recommended names including your own Corsair. I certainly don't, and likely won't, see any of the respectable reviewers like Aris and even those you used to work closely with on the JG site having much that isn't positive to say about the vast majority of their models. Certainly they are not untouchable, but they sure as hell aren't Great Wall either.
All of them/Any of them

Their PCBA is outsourced to a number of different SMT factories and sometimes they outsource their final assembly because their own factory is so small, they can do neither, never mind manufacturing of housing, cables, magnetics, etc.

They are literally a DESIGN HOUSE. Not much more in most cases.

We had high hopes when they tried to open a facility in China. They would only do final assembly there, but at least the rest of the supply chain remained in Taiwan. Unfortunately, that fell through. Then they decided to only do server PSUs in Taiwan. THAT eventually fell through too.

The high point of Seasonic is the ensemble of engineers that can make a really winning design. Unfortunately, a lot of those guys have moved on to other vendors.
 
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Darkbreeze

Titan
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I get that, but they must be doing something right because the majority of their products in the mainstream enthusiast segment seem to pass the very stringent testing done by Aris and Wolf with flying colors, more often (By far) than not. Honestly, I couldn't care less if one eyed monks in Tibet are putting them together, if they are managing to remain primarily at the top of the food chain in review tests and holding up long term. Which they seem to be doing.

But I get that it would certainly be preferable to have a one stop shop from design to in the box. Unfortunately, there aren't many of those around. Or any these days it seems like. I'm sure there are some, but if there are, and if they're offering the same level of performance in the final product as (As brief examples) the Focus Plus and Prime units, I have missed out on hearing about them. Then again, I'm not an engineer by a long shot, so unless it was mentioned in a review, on the various forums or on Orion's database (Which has largely gone silent for a while now), I probably wouldn't be in the know anyhow.
 
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jonnyguru

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I get that, but they must be doing something right because the majority of their products in the mainstream enthusiast segment seem to pass the very stringent testing done by Aris and Wolf with flying colors, more often (By far) than not. Honestly, I couldn't care less if one eyed monks in Tibet are putting them together, if they are managing to remain primarily at the top of the food chain in review tests and holding up long term. Which they seem to be doing.

But I get that it would certainly be preferable to have a one stop shop from design to in the box. Unfortunately, there aren't many of those around. Or any these days it seems like. I'm sure there are some, but if there are, and if they're offering the same level of performance in the final product as (As brief examples) the Focus Plus and Prime units, I have missed out on hearing about them. Then again, I'm not an engineer by a long shot, so unless it was mentioned in a review, on the various forums or on Orion's database (Which has largely gone silent for a while now), I probably wouldn't be in the know anyhow.
You're using the term "tier 1" in terms of tiers of subjective quality.

Not in actual manufacturing tiers.

https://smallbusiness.chron.com/difference-between-tier-1-tier-2-companies-25430.html

It's more difficult to QC a company that isn't tier one because their supply chain is a moving target.

So while PERFORMANCE can often be seen as top notch due to reviews because they have a good in-house design team, actual end product consistency can be almost random as no customer has enough time to go audit every single factory they outsource to.
 

Barty1884

Titan
Moderator
You're using the term "tier 1" in terms of tiers of subjective quality.

Not in actual manufacturing tiers.
Which is exactly what the conversation was about? Including what you quoted/responded to?

after reading numerous forum post's I came to know that Seasonic is the best OEM as well as Brand
Then you either misunderstood what you read, did selective reading, or are reading posts from people that don't know the full gamut of what's out there. ;)

In the industry, Seasonic isn't even a second tier manufacturer.
Honestly, I couldn't care less if one eyed monks in Tibet are putting them together, if they are managing to remain primarily at the top of the food chain in review tests and holding up long term. Which they seem to be doing.
Agreed.

So while PERFORMANCE can often be seen as top notch due to reviews because they have a good in-house design team, actual end product consistency can be almost random as no customer has enough time to go audit every single factory they outsource to.
Very true.... although correct me if I'm wrong, do Seasonic not exclusively send retail units for review?
Seemed to be the word a couple of years ago, and I've heard nothing revoking that?

You will remember that Seasonic is now using retailers to source review samples after one too many accusations of cherry picking, and I am still most pleased with their willingness to do this.
https://www.jonnyguru.com/blog/2017/09/18/seasonic-focus-plus-850-gold-power-supply/

So, while I'm sure the odd defective unit gets through, I wouldn't expect it to be any worse than anybody else in the higher quality/reputation bracket - and I'm not aware of any being 'caught' in a review.

I wouldn't complain that the architect/engineer didn't personally build my house, provided the builders actually followed the instructions. No different here.
 

jonnyguru

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The problem with actual "tier one manufacturers" is they have the CAPABILITY to build anything at any price range. Because their vertical integration allows them control over all aspects of manufacturing from the bottom up, they can make the very cheap or the very high end. Unfortunately, the "volume" of product is "very cheap" because of its price point. Which in turn gives certain OEM's a "bad name". Because of Seasonic's limited capability, they can pick and choose. Actual tier 1 suppliers would be stupid to refuse to do business from anyone that can/will pay them to make a series of PSUs for them.

If you think "design is everything", that's a pretty naive thought. There are many manufacturing issues that can come up. Like SMT solder durability, including cold solder joints, quality of the solder itself (i.e. % of silver in the solder), number of windings on a bobbin to make a choke or transformer, capability of the burn in racks, environment of the storage of raw materials (i.e. making sure things like caps, etc. are kept in proper temperature/humidity in often hot and humid Shenzhen), etc. There is so much to the actual manufacturing of the product beyond the engineering of the design that Corsair even has a team of three guys in China just to monitor the actual manufacturing of the product on a day to day basis.
 

jonnyguru

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Honestly, I couldn't care less if one eyed monks in Tibet are putting them together, if they are managing to remain primarily at the top of the food chain in review tests and holding up long term. Which they seem to be doing.
Wow.. I mean... I would delete that part of your post if I were you because... wow.....

You do realize that "kids" are putting these things together, right? And while you try to maintain a shop floor system in the factories you CAN control, you can't control every step of the way. There are about 50 people + on the assembly line for a single PSU. All it takes is one guy to screw up. And in China, there's hardly such a thing as a "full time employee". Sure, you get guys that show up for 8 hours a day. Maybe 12 hours if the factory doesn't do multiple shifts, but come Chinese New Year, odds are that 50% of them aren't coming back.

At the end of the day, a PSU is an assembly of parts. The parts in that final assembly need to be manufactured in one part of your supply chain, but then they're assembled into a sub-assembly in another factory and then put into final assembly in another factory. If you think it's not that complicated, I have to assume you're thinking we're making chocolate chip cookies or something.
 

Barty1884

Titan
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Unfortunately, the "volume" of product is "very cheap" because of its price point. Which in turn gives certain OEM's a "bad name". Because of Seasonic's limited capability, they can pick and choose. Actual tier 1 suppliers would be stupid to refuse to do business from anyone that can/will pay them to make a series of PSUs for them.
Which brings us full circle to the actual discussion at hand. It's been stated it's a poor sole measure, but the topic is on OEM alone, who stands where? So, to step in and state

In the industry, Seasonic isn't even a second tier manufacturer.
Just reeks of an agenda, given the topic at hand.
I'm not saying you're wrong in what you're saying, far from it - of course there are many factors, but to throw out that they're not even second tier (in the context of the thread) is just false).

If you think "design is everything", that's a pretty naive thought.
Not "everything", no. But provided the product is built to spec/design, using the appropriate materials etc, then the end result is the end result. Can you link us any review materials at all substantiate that this might not be the case?

You do realize that "kids" are putting these things together, right? And while you try to maintain a shop floor system in the factories you CAN control, you can't control every step of the way. There are about 50 people + on the assembly line for a single PSU. All it takes is one guy to screw up. And in China, there's hardly such a thing as a "full time employee". Sure, you get guys that show up for 8 hours a day. Maybe 12 hours if the factory doesn't do multiple shifts, but come Chinese New Year, odds are that 50% of them aren't coming back.
And this is exclusive to any one design/manufacturer? No, of course it's not.
Those guys that don't show up after CNY... where do they go? I'm pretty sure they simply migrate to A.N.Other PSU assembly facility.

Corsair even has a team of three guys in China just to monitor the actual manufacturing of the product on a day to day basis.
Is 3 enough? Sure, it's better than 0. Not disputing that.... but can 3 people truly "oversee" the QC of an entire product stack? I'd suspect the answer is no.



Even if we were talking manufacturing tiers (which we weren't), does any "brand" come out ahead?
Who's considered Tier 1? Delta? Lite-On? Brands with some whoppers themselves?
Tier 2?... CWT, Great Wall? I'm not sure what the substance behind that is, when they've had their own share of pretty junk units.

Is a Corsair's (or whoever's) entry level, budget unit any better because it was subject to their own QC vs one that was outsourced and built appropriately to a better design, yet is surprisingly affordable because it's assembly was outsourced?

Sure, there's a chance of a lemon.... but your comments were to Seasonic specifically, and I'm not aware of any widespread issues?



Any chance of a response to this aspect JG?
correct me if I'm wrong, do Seasonic not exclusively send retail units for review?
Seemed to be the word a couple of years ago, and I've heard nothing revoking that?
AFAIK, they're not cherry picking samples that go out, and there's been no widespread issues with build quality etc? In fact, they're frequently praised for same. Do you suspect that they're not sending out retail samples?
 

Rogue Leader

Titan
Moderator
So while PERFORMANCE can often be seen as top notch due to reviews because they have a good in-house design team, actual end product consistency can be almost random as no customer has enough time to go audit every single factory they outsource to.
Totally understand everything you're saying. I worked for a consumer electronics company, as well as a manufacturing company for many years.

BUT

Seasonic is slapping 12 year warranties on these things. Also last I checked there hasn't been an epidemic of Seasonic PSUs crashing systems, causing fires, and so on. Have they failed any PSU reviewer's tests glaringly? Nope, not even yours. They even ship review units out of Newegg stock.

So sure, product consistency "could be" random, but they have consistently staked their entire reputation on literal random units from their stock, and they come out aces every time. Makes me think they are confident both in their partners ability to manufacture all levels of their product, and that the consistency over time is solid.

The truth is, an average Joe even an average Tom's or LTT or JG user doesn't really care that much about what exact factory their PSU came out of. In the end you can walk into any store at any given time nearly world wide and walk out with ANY Seasonic model and have a good PSU that will maintain its stated capabilities for many years. Period end of story, I don't care where in the supply chain they are.

I KNOW you know more than we do, but if you want to come in here and try to drop a bomb on a fairly obvious and consistent piece of common knowledge, by pointing out obscure "issues" in its supply chain, you should expect to be both questioned and challenged, properly I might add.

Feel free to prove me wrong, I will wait and I am confident I am correct.
 
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JG's been somewhat cynical in a lot of threads lately. I actually haven't seen him posting much at all on here until recently.

Maybe he's thinking from a macro-economics/business perspective and not an end-user/consumer perspective.
 
Jul 28, 2019
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If you have a smaller budget then there are some decent FSP units like EVGA's G1+ and then there is Great Wall which is used by Corsair for their newer TXM series and a lesser CWT unit like the newer Corsair CX series.
[/QUOTE]

My budget is $200 USD that is Rs. 14250.26 INR all I need a durable and good PSU.
 
I just checked in.PCPartPicker and these are all units mentioned already that are noteworthy.

Power Supply: Corsair CX (2017) 650 W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply (₹6600.00 @ Amazon India)
Power Supply: Corsair TXM Gold 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply (₹9325.00 @ Amazon India)
Power Supply: Corsair TXM Gold 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply (₹9990.00 @ Amazon India)
Power Supply: Corsair RMx 1000 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (₹12200.00 @ Amazon India)
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
Wow.. I mean... I would delete that part of your post if I were you because... wow.....

You do realize that "kids" are putting these things together, right? And while you try to maintain a shop floor system in the factories you CAN control, you can't control every step of the way. There are about 50 people + on the assembly line for a single PSU. All it takes is one guy to screw up. And in China, there's hardly such a thing as a "full time employee". Sure, you get guys that show up for 8 hours a day. Maybe 12 hours if the factory doesn't do multiple shifts, but come Chinese New Year, odds are that 50% of them aren't coming back.

At the end of the day, a PSU is an assembly of parts. The parts in that final assembly need to be manufactured in one part of your supply chain, but then they're assembled into a sub-assembly in another factory and then put into final assembly in another factory. If you think it's not that complicated, I have to assume you're thinking we're making chocolate chip cookies or something.
Kids putting things together, I care about. I'm not onboard with sweatshop practices and if ANY of them are doing that, I'd be a lot less inclined to buy hardware from that company. Even if they aren't "doing" it but are just turning a blind eye to it, same. However, I said one eyed monks, not kids, so I don's see any reason to delete my statement. I could just as easily have said seven tentacled aliens from Uranus (Not yours, specifically, LOL.) and it would still fall under the "if seven tentacled aliens from Uranus" are putting them together well enough to pass critical testing by Aris and Cybenetics, and others in the field, then seven tentacled aliens it is. I have no prerequisite that it needs to be assembled by white engineers in Germany or Japanese scientists. I don't even care if it's made in the back alleys of Saigon or the shanty towns of Mexico, as long as somebody is reliably overseeing things like you say and the end product is of good quality, with good performance and the longevity is being upheld in a manner that is at least mostly consistent with their warranty, or outlasting the warranty.

Seasonic seems to do that. So does Super Flower. So does EVGA. So does Corsair. At least, on any of their units that I'd recommend based on reviews and personal experience.

Our members are not concerned with the economics of the thing. They only care about "is this crap" or "is this good".
 
Then you either misunderstood what you read, did selective reading, or are reading posts from people that don't know the full gamut of what's out there. ;)

In the industry, Seasonic isn't even a second tier manufacturer.
The problem with actual "tier one manufacturers" is they have the CAPABILITY to build anything at any price range. Because their vertical integration allows them control over all aspects of manufacturing from the bottom up, they can make the very cheap or the very high end. Unfortunately, the "volume" of product is "very cheap" because of its price point. Which in turn gives certain OEM's a "bad name". Because of Seasonic's limited capability, they can pick and choose. Actual tier 1 suppliers would be stupid to refuse to do business from anyone that can/will pay them to make a series of PSUs for them.
So you're saying Seasonic isn't the best because they pick and choose which PSUs they make, (only the better ones?) while other brands like Corsair can make all PSUs even the cheapest ones, and that makes Seasonic second best or not even close? That seems highly subjective to personal opinion.
 
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