[SOLVED] What component is dying on my pc?

Aug 27, 2020
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System Specs:
Motherboard: Asus Z77 Extreme 3
CPU: Intel i3770k (yeah it's old... but at the time) with closed-circuit water cooling pump.
RAM: 16GB (2x8GB) ddr3 2100 hz
GPU: AMD RX480
PSU: Corsair 650W ( I think...)
OS: Windows 10
Everything was running perfectly until I kept shaming 4 different uruks in shadows of war.... then I got bored of it.

Here's the story,
I exited Shadows of War with the usual alt+F4. Turned off my second screen, got off the computer to go read. I come back (2ish hrs later) display isn't picking up a signal.

Disconnected the hdmi cable from the card and switched it to onboard graphics, Changed primary display to onboard in bios, still tried to load displays from the GPU. ended up removing the CMOS battery now it loads. Updated the drivers, and nothing changed.

Formatted my SSD (windows drive) and during the reinstallation, it freezes, got stuck in an endless restart to continue installing loop. Turned it off worked on it again tomorrow.

Got a Windows 10 installation disk from a friend and reinstalled it from there, no issues. Installed all the windows updates, then started working on updating the video card driver.
Download the most recent AMD 20.8.2 (also tried the earlier version, and the same issues occurred).

I have 2 issues at this point:
  1. If I'm connected to the internet while installing the AMD drivers crash due to different errors, most recently/common is Error 202 cannot install drivers because Windows is currently installing an update, (WHICH IT WAS NOT),
  2. I freeze at random times, most often it's during driver installations not at the same point every time(9%,54%, 23%,... etc) Each time I use DDU and run a driver wipe and try again.
#2 is more common.

Initially, I thought it was my GPU, but with the constant freezing at random points, I'm leaning more towards my CPU at this point. The only thing I haven't done is remove the CPU cooler, clean and reapply the CPU cement.

Is it my CPU?

Sorry for the long post
 
Solution
I borrowed and tested out a 2nd PSU (EVGA 650 watt). Used DDU (safe mode) to clear out anything. Restarted and installed the GPU drivers, still froze.
Good thing you could try it, though I am not at all surprised it made no difference since PSU problems tend to cause random reset/reboot when "tilt bits" (bits set when calculations and state machines hit an irrecoverable invalid state) trigger a system reset to prevent (further) data corruption.

Since you have an i7-3770k, the next thing I'd try is ditching the GPU and see if your system is stable on IGP. If crashes and restarts go away, then there is a definitive possibility your GPU may be acting up.
VERY unlikely to be the CPU unless you've been running it with a high voltage/high overclock for a long, long time, and it has degraded. Even then, it's STILL pretty unlikely unless the aforementioned conditions were leaning towards the extreme side of things.

What is MUCH more likely, is that it is the motherboard failing, because your Z77 board is now going on somewhere in the neighborhood of 8 years and at any point beyond five years for a daily driver that sees frequent or intense usage, such as on a gaming system, it's increasingly likely to see capacitor or other failures.

But it could certainly be something else altogether.

Such as "Corsair 650w (I think...)"

Let's start with the MOST likely problem for ALL systems, especially ones with some miles on them. What is the EXACT model of the power supply. If you don't know, look. It will be printed directly on the specifications decal on one of the sides of the PSU. Knowing roughly how old it is, has been in service, would be very good to know as well.
 
If he can't even install drivers, I seriously doubt he can run Prime95 or Furmark, or should try, for that matter.

And the need to install the OS is something that does happen, but it generally happens over time unless there is an infection or something gets manually borked by an uninformed user like attempting to edit the registry when they have no business being in there in the first place. None of that is likely to apply here, and it's very unlikely that Windows just suddenly became itself corrupted between playing a game and coming back two hours later.
 

InvalidError

Titan
Moderator
First thing I'd test for seemingly random crashes: memory with memtest86 or similar. A single intermittent DRAM bit can cause all manners of weirdness depending on where it lands and with OS address space randomization, it will rarely land at any given place and time twice in a row.
 
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This was a fairly good power supply when it was new, unfortunately that was about 8 years ago. Further, it was only a three year warranted unit, meaning it is five years out of warranty and for a component that relies heavily on it's internal capacitors, that's a pretty long stretch for a unit from that era.

Units being manufactured in the last five years, some of them anyhow, could easily go ten years before you need to start looking at them sideways, but your unit is well beyond the point where it could, or should, be trusted.

What you do with that bit of information is entirely up to you but just know that since it's a good idea to replace it anyway AND because your power supply could easily be the source of ANY problem you have, on any system, because EVERYTHING relies on the power supply and can exhibit symptoms of failure that aren't actually due to the part itself failing but rather due to a lack of clean, stable power, it might definitely be worth looking into replacing it first before moving forward with other potential concerns. Or at the least, taking a look at it's current output using HWinfo to get at least a preliminary idea of where you are in terms of the 3, 5 and 12v readings.

Personally, I'd replace it no matter what the sensors say, but that doesn't necessarily mean it IS the source of your problems either.

Testing with Memtest86 like InvalidError suggested is a good idea, probably the best place to start, but keep in mind that if there are power issues then any results of Memtest are likely to be skewed anyhow.


Memtest86


Go to the Passmark software website and download the USB Memtest86 free version. You can do the optical disk version too if for some reason you cannot use a bootable USB flash drive.

Create bootable media using the downloaded Memtest86 (NOT Memtest86+, that is a different, older version and is outdated). Once you have done that, go into your BIOS and configure the system to boot to the USB drive that contains the Memtest86 USB media or the optical drive if using that option.


Create a bootable USB Flash drive:

1. Download the Windows MemTest86 USB image.

2. Right click on the downloaded file and select the "Extract to Here" option. This places the USB image and imaging tool into the current folder.

3. Run the included imageUSB tool, it should already have the image file selected and you just need to choose which connected USB drive to turn into a bootable drive. Note that this will erase all data on the drive.



No memory should ever fail to pass Memtest86 when it is at the default configuration that the system sets it at when you start out or do a clear CMOS by removing the CMOS battery for five minutes.

Best method for testing memory is to first run four passes of Memtest86, all 11 tests, WITH the memory at the default configuration. This should be done BEFORE setting the memory to the XMP profile settings. The paid version has 13 tests but the free version only has tests 1-10 and test 13. So run full passes of all 11 tests. Be sure to download the latest version of Memtest86. Memtest86+ has not been updated in MANY years. It is NO-WISE as good as regular Memtest86 from Passmark software.

If there are ANY errors, at all, then the memory configuration is not stable. Bumping the DRAM voltage up slightly may resolve that OR you may need to make adjustments to the primary timings. There are very few secondary or tertiary timings that should be altered. I can tell you about those if you are trying to tighten your memory timings.

If you cannot pass Memtest86 with the memory at the XMP configuration settings then I would recommend restoring the memory to the default JEDEC SPD of 1333/2133mhz (Depending on your platform and memory type) with everything left on the auto/default configuration and running Memtest86 over again. If it completes the four full passes without error you can try again with the XMP settings but first try bumping the DRAM voltage up once again by whatever small increment the motherboard will allow you to increase it by. If it passes, great, move on to the Prime95 testing.

If it still fails, try once again bumping the voltage if you are still within the maximum allowable voltage for your memory type and test again. If it still fails, you are likely going to need more advanced help with configuring your primary timings and should return the memory to the default configuration until you can sort it out.

If the memory will not pass Memtest86 for four passes when it IS at the stock default non-XMP configuration, even after a minor bump in voltage, then there is likely something physically wrong with one or more of the memory modules and I'd recommend running Memtest on each individual module, separately, to determine which module is causing the issue. If you find a single module that is faulty you should contact the seller or the memory manufacturer and have them replace the memory as a SET. Memory comes matched for a reason as I made clear earlier and if you let them replace only one module rather than the entire set you are back to using unmatched memory which is an open door for problems with incompatible memory.

Be aware that you SHOULD run Memtest86 to test the memory at the default, non-XMP, non-custom profile settings BEFORE ever making any changes to the memory configuration so that you will know if the problem is a setting or is a physical problem with the memory.
 
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InvalidError

Titan
Moderator
Memtest86+ has not been updated in MANY years. It is NO-WISE as good as regular Memtest86 from Passmark software.
Memtest86= was updated in April 2020, not that old. The PassMark version does fundamentally the same things, only with a prettier GUI and a couple of arbitrary limitations (ex.: four passes limit - I don't feel comfortable with less than 7 since I've once had an intermitent bit corrupt a few GBs of data before I caught it and didn"t get my first memtest error until the 5th pass. When I run memtest86+, I run it overnight for ~10 passes) to push license sales.
 
That's new. Prior to that it had not been updated since 2013, which is definitely WAY too far out of date to recommend using since modern architectures are much different, and DDR4 wasn't even commonly adopted yet.

I'll update my guide and recommendations though.
 
Aug 27, 2020
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So just to clarify, I've never OC'd any part on my pc. My ideology has always been similar to why would you add nitrous to a corolla. That being said, I've never adjusted any settings on my ram so I just ran memtest86 last night (twice). 0 errors both times, each attempt took around 3.5 hours.

I also downloaded HWinfo, CPU core temps were at 49C. Checked the PSU, the min/max voltage values for 12/5/3 volts were all stable in their respective ranges. I'm going to borrow my friend's PSU and install that to see if I'll be able to at least install the drivers and rule out the PSU being the main issue.

Last night I saw AMD released 20.8.3 drivers (I'd already tried 20.8.2 and 20.4.2). After the results of memtest86 I went to download the new drivers to see if maybe those would install, but my computer froze a few seconds after finishing the download.

I never mentioned this part before because (for some reason) it didn't click that it might be related to these issues. I have a dual display setup, the primary monitor is an ASUS 27" connected via HDMI, the secondary (which I use for Netflix/youtube), is an old sony 32-inch tv connected via hdmi-to-display port adaptor. About a year ago the second screen would occasionally flash green for about 2 seconds then go back to displaying whatever was on it before. It normally happens every time I'd be on the computer, however, it ONLY happens once per login. I don't know if that changes anything.
 
If you've never adjusted any settings on your RAM, that means you've probably never set the XMP profile and therefore are probably not running at 2133mhz. I would double check all that and make sure. You WANT the XMP profile enabled in the BIOS if your platform supports the speed of your sticks.
 

InvalidError

Titan
Moderator
Last night I saw AMD released 20.8.3 drivers (I'd already tried 20.8.2 and 20.4.2). After the results of memtest86 I went to download the new drivers to see if maybe those would install, but my computer froze a few seconds after finishing the download.
If you were never successful in installing GPU drivers since re-installing Windows, you should be running on Microsoft's generic VGA driver and that driver is generally considered rock-solid. If you still have random freezes with that, then your problem likely has nothing to do with GPU drivers or lack thereof.

As for your "TV flashes green once per login" issue, that could be a sign that its power supply is on its way out and struggling to reliably turn on - I've had two of my LG monitors do something similar ~10 years ago.
 

InvalidError

Titan
Moderator
I borrowed and tested out a 2nd PSU (EVGA 650 watt). Used DDU (safe mode) to clear out anything. Restarted and installed the GPU drivers, still froze.
Good thing you could try it, though I am not at all surprised it made no difference since PSU problems tend to cause random reset/reboot when "tilt bits" (bits set when calculations and state machines hit an irrecoverable invalid state) trigger a system reset to prevent (further) data corruption.

Since you have an i7-3770k, the next thing I'd try is ditching the GPU and see if your system is stable on IGP. If crashes and restarts go away, then there is a definitive possibility your GPU may be acting up.
 
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Solution
Good advice.

Doesn't change the fact that an 8 year old PSU should be on your short list of things to replace though.

I'd definitely try the integrated graphics as IE suggested, if the problem remains then I'd be pretty suspicious of your motherboard. If not, or regardless, if you can, try a different graphics card.
 
Aug 27, 2020
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Sorry for the delay, been busy with different assignments and whatnot.
Thanks for the advice, I'll go ahead disconnect (or try to borrow a GPU) to see if I get the same issues. Regarding motherboard issues themselves. Is there a way to diagnose it other than process of elimination?
 

InvalidError

Titan
Moderator
Is there a way to diagnose it other than process of elimination?
Unless you can narrow the crash to a perfectly repeatable sequence and outcome, there usually are too many variables to know for certain without swapping parts.

If the crashes only happen while there is LAN activity, then maybe it is the LAN chip that is acting up. You could try disabling it and using some other form of networking for a while if you happen to have a WiFi/USB or GbE/USB adapter.
 
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Aug 27, 2020
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So I made adjustments to the registry, allowed installs in safe mode and got the drivers installed, no signal from the GPU.

Thanks for your help so far guys. it's been amazing.
 
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