Question WHat is my best CPU choice to upgrade my existing motherboard?

[jpotter0]

I have an ASUS TUF X299 Mark 2 LGA2066 motherboard with an Intel i7-7820X processor and 128 GB DDR4 RAM that I built in late 2017. I'm looking to upgrade, but I'm not sure I can afford a new MB, Processor, and Memory. My application is CPU and memory intensive numerical calculations and I'd like more speed. Is it worth while to just replace the CPU with something like an i9-13900K, which can still use the current MB and RAM? Should I just byte the bullet and replace every thing?

My software license currently limits me to 10 cores so I don't really need more. I am at 7500 ft elevation and the existing system with air cooling doesn't run reliably when it's overclocked. Also, I could use more than 128 GB RAM. On occasion I am using up to my limit of 90% of the 128 GB RAM.

There's no sense going beyond just adding water cooling to my existing system for a marginal increase in speed. How much speed improvement can I get by replacing the CPU in my existing MB compared to a new MB and DDR5 RAM?

 

[Lutfij]

My application is CPU and memory intensive numerical calculations and I'd like more speed. Is it worth while to just replace the CPU with something like an i9-13900K, which can still use the current MB and RAM? Should I just byte the bullet and replace every thing?
Yes, I would...if the work you do puts a roof over your head and food on the table, also provided your tasks can leverage extra cores.

Maybe look into a ThreadRipper build if you need a lot more ram for your needs...?

What is it that you do? As in what app are you currently taxing your build with?

[moved thread from Graphics card section to Systems]

 

[siaan312]

Couple of things you got wrong.
The i9-13900K cannot go into your motherboard, it will need a new motherboard.
As for ram, the 13900K can use both ddr4 and ddr5, depending on the motherboard, also, the 13900K has 8 performance cores and 8 efficency cores, meaning you might not get the full effect.
As for the best cpu that can go in that motherboard, that would be the i9-10980XE which has 18 cores.
The best 10 core cpu would be the 10900X, which is not noticeably faster than the 7820X.

Depending on what ram sticks you have, you might not even be able to fit 128GB of ram into a 13900K since it would only have 4 slots instead of the 8 you have on the X299 platfrom.

If you ask me, there's really no upgrade path for your motherboard.
You can keep the ram and use a 13900K, but it might limit you to 64GB (4 slots of 16GBs, or 128 if you have 4 sticks of 32GB.)
But you'd need a motherboard change.

 

[DavidM012]

13900k is socket lga 1700 won't fit your mobo. Nor will ddr 5. You'd need a new ddr 5 only socket lga 1700 mobo as well as however many gb of ddr 5 you need.

Socket lga 1700 mobo have ddr 4 and ddr 5 variants and the ram isn't compatible.

Your cooling situation for a 13900k doesn't sound too user friendly either it has been described as a power hungry resource hog of a cpu and I don't know of anyone else whose tried to cool it at 7500ft.

So you're looking at mobo, mem & cpu + lga 1700 compatible cooler (what's your current cooler can you get a lga 1700 bracket for it?)

Then what's your Power Supply, make model and wattage? Might want a fresh one to use with a 13900k.

This sounds like $1500+. $600 cpu/$500 ram (256gb ddr 5aboot 500 d$?) / $300 mobo / $300 power supply + maybe case + maybe cooler.

What's your PC case make and model?


You could move your DIMMs to a ddr 4 lga 1700 mobo and save a bit so long as they aren't outlandishly incompatible/outside the mainstream obscure manufacturer dimms.

Can you read the dimm part no.s in spd tab of cpu-z anyway a gamble as to whether it might be compatible with a new mobo

You definitely need more of a cpu expert to know what cpu will give you an economical boost. LGA 2066 cpus are also about $1000 but I think tend to have a higher multi threaded score rather than a much higher single threaded score than your 7820x. So you're looking more at what is bang for buck than what's cheaper.

 

[DavidM012]

here's a couple of verses against your 7820x:

vs 12700k

vs 13900k

I mean wow you could stand to dial down the cpu a bit and save some $ and maybe use an i5-13400f (ten core lga 1700 cpu recently released this week, 6p core 4e core) just so you don't have to deal with any monstrous cooling solutions for a 13900k or a 13700k (8p core 8e core 24 threads). Looks like a 13400f isn't a huge boost though. Maybe 12700k is enough of a boost to be appealing without being too expensive.

You could also get a pci-e 5.0 nvme drive -review might even help in your case, faster read/writes to windows page file. Could also stand to dial it back a bit to a pci-e 4.0 samsung 990 pro if that's too much.

Threadripper pshh $1000 cpu, $700mobo if you can afford it. have to look up benches and reviews etc. for a sense of it's performance for your job and how favorably it compares.

128gb memory at 90% usage still isn't 95% or 100% usage... and the faster nvme drive might perk up the windows swap file a bit.

 

[jpotter0]

My application is CPU and memory intensive numerical calculations and I'd like more speed. Is it worth while to just replace the CPU with something like an i9-13900K, which can still use the current MB and RAM? Should I just byte the bullet and replace every thing?
Yes, I would...if the work you do puts a roof over your head and food on the table, also provided your tasks can leverage extra cores.

Maybe look into a ThreadRipper build if you need a lot more ram for your needs...?

What is it that you do? As in what app are you currently taxing your build with?

[moved thread from Graphics card section to Systems]

Thanks for the reply. I have been busy and forgot to check on replies. Is there a way to request notifications?

My application is Ansys EDT, formerly Ansoft HFSS, coupled to Ansys Mechanical. My license allows for 10 cores. Originally it was for 6 cores. Then they threw in 4 cores as part of my annual (expensive!) support. I'm not sure more cores will make enough difference to justify the cost. I am paying $24k annually for support (and upgrades), which is pretty steep for a small company. Recently the upgrades have been useful and I'm using support more for real help instead of just finding bugs in the code. I've been using this program since 1999, when it cost $5k, and a useful computer cost $8k. The support costs keep going up, but the hardware costs have stayed at about $4k for a DIY build.

Early on I did a speed test. Not every part of the calculation uses multi-threading. It seems like the improvement was less as I added more cores.

This is part of what pays the bills here. I am a consultant for 3D E&M simulations for rf linear accelerators. That includes chains of coupled resonant cavities and a structure called a DTL. I've been able to do fairly large structures with the present setup. More speed would be nice. I can probably get more out of the current setup by adding water cooling so I can use the overclocking. It's running reliably with air cooling as long as I don't use the overclocking. The tech who did the build originally put in water cooling, but took it out because of some problem. The tech no longer works for me, but I am capable of building a system myself. It more an issue of time for me.

I don't use the computer for calculation intensive applications 100% of the time because I also design and build electronic hardware. I use SolidWorks and Kicad a lot for that on a Dell laptop Workstation. I noticed when the National Lab (LANL) buys a seat of HFSS for $60k the hire an E&M specialist to run it full time, so the code is a small part of the total cost.

I think if I decide to spend the money, more memory would be useful. I ran into memory limitations at about 1/3 of a 72 cell DTL with post stabilizers, which is a big added complexity.

I appreciate the reply form you and the others. I will take all the advice to heart as I try to figure out the best way forward. As someone said, what I'm looking for is the most bang for the buck. That most likely includes more memory. An incremental improvement wouldn't do much for my productivity. As it is I'm amazed at the progress in hardware. I started in 1975 with a 2 MHz 8080 CPU with 4k of RAM and 2 k of tiny basic on a single board computer that I turned into a 64k CP/M system.

 

[jpotter0]

13900k is socket lga 1700 won't fit your mobo. Nor will ddr 5. You'd need a new ddr 5 only socket lga 1700 mobo as well as however many gb of ddr 5 you need.

Socket lga 1700 mobo have ddr 4 and ddr 5 variants and the ram isn't compatible.

Your cooling situation for a 13900k doesn't sound too user friendly either it has been described as a power hungry resource hog of a cpu and I don't know of anyone else whose tried to cool it at 7500ft.

So you're looking at mobo, mem & cpu + lga 1700 compatible cooler (what's your current cooler can you get a lga 1700 bracket for it?)

Then what's your Power Supply, make model and wattage? Might want a fresh one to use with a 13900k.

This sounds like $1500+. $600 cpu/$500 ram (256gb ddr 5aboot 500 d$?) / $300 mobo / $300 power supply + maybe case + maybe cooler.

What's your PC case make and model?


You could move your DIMMs to a ddr 4 lga 1700 mobo and save a bit so long as they aren't outlandishly incompatible/outside the mainstream obscure manufacturer dimms.

Can you read the dimm part no.s in spd tab of cpu-z anyway a gamble as to whether it might be compatible with a new mobo

You definitely need more of a cpu expert to know what cpu will give you an economical boost. LGA 2066 cpus are also about $1000 but I think tend to have a higher multi threaded score rather than a much higher single threaded score than your 7820x. So you're looking more at what is bang for buck than what's cheaper.

Thanks for the reply! See my reply to a previous post for more details. I think if I go for a new MB, CPU, and RAM I'll make a new build. I might be able to recover a few $$ by selling the old system. I don't require a super graphics card since my application is not gaming. My current graphics card is an NVidia Quadro P4000 with a 4k monitor.

 

[DavidM012]

Well kinda struggling to get pci-e 5.0 m.2 support mobo for under $500 so it's pci-e 4.0 m.2 support with ddr 5 and I can only find 64gb ddr5 kits on pc partpicker so if you want more like 128gb or 256gb ddr 5 you might have to ask a manufacturer directly for advice like g.skill. be prepared for it to be at least $1000 just for the memory.

By no means a definitive list just for an idea of how it looks:

threw in any old case you could choose one more to your liking and the 850w rm psu because pcpp prices look skew-whiff somehow. 650w and 750w are $200 but 850w is £135, why?

CPU: Intel Core i7-12700K 3.6 GHz 12-Core Processor ($298.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler ($35.90 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z790 AORUS ELITE AX ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($259.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws S5 64 GB (2 x 32 GB) DDR5-6000 CL32 Memory ($329.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 990 Pro 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($289.99 @ B&H)
Case: Fractal Design Focus G ATX Mid Tower Case ($64.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair RM850x (2021) 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($134.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $1414.83
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-01-22 02:58 EST-0500

Here's how it looks ddr 4 build without any ram and re-using your current dimms (presuming they're compatible)

CPU: Intel Core i7-12700K 3.6 GHz 12-Core Processor ($298.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler ($35.90 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z690 AORUS ELITE DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($281.86 @ MemoryC)
Storage: Samsung 990 Pro 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($289.99 @ B&H)
Case: Fractal Design Focus G ATX Mid Tower Case ($64.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair RM850x (2021) 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($134.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $1106.71
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-01-22 03:07 EST-0500

with memory:

Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 128 GB (4 x 32 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($339.99 @ Newegg)

So ddr 5 with pci-5.0 m.2 is clearly a premium. Dunno about selling your old rig - who would buy it also dunno about threadripper but it will probably set you back nearer $3k once you got a case, cooler and power supply for it though maybe you should ask a cpu expert considering the workload you have for it, might be efficient somehow or something.

Basically I think a z690 or z790 mobo will help your cooling situation a bit over a basic b660 mobo since it'll have halfway decent vrms and vrm cooler on it but still probably have to read a bunch of reviews to look for any questionable performance issues.

You could also select a more powerful cpu though be aware that the maximum turbo power starts to climb with a 13700k to 253w which is huge and difficult to cool. 12700k maximum turbo power is 190w which is still large but hopefully not pushing the brink at 7500ft. Low air pressure your basic problem? Dunno looked it up didn't see a lot of technical info. Don't know much but the general idea is more is more expensive, of course.

 

[DavidM012]

You might also want to check out the blurb about contact frames for intel cpus: see gamer's nexus - and the prequel - and Tom's hardware review of the contact frame - could improve your thermals but could also void your warranty and with these larger sockets and cpus both cpu warping and bent pins in a socket are increasingly problematic technically so you must be careful assembling things.

So your situation looks like you're out on a limb a bit technically really you're spending to upgrade your CPU and Mobo and drive even though what you really want is more memory but you need a new platform to support it and the new platform necessitates learning a bunch of new things all of a sudden.

You could also consider a ryzen build, zen 3 would be ddr 4 and zen 4 would be ddr 5 however Zen 4 also has some problematic technical issues concerning cooling since it uses a thicker than usual integrated heat spreader on the cpu which affects thermal performance. This was done apparently to maintain compatibility with coolers on the market.

De-lidding improves thermals but risks cracking the cpu die (will happen inevitably if you try) while lapping needs a machine shop and both efforts to improve thermal performance also void your warranty.

So having to take risks and learn new things on the go seems a bit of a crazy trip. Well intel mobo's now only have the single lever loading mechanism which is why thermal grizzly pioneered the contact frame so now you have technical problems to figure out when previously there were none, maybe this gen's offerings doesn't have anything that suits your situation and budget and then it's a guess whether matters will improve with the next gen.

You should be able to build a pc for goodness sakes but both team red and blue have issues at the moment. I mean you probably can build a pc but can you build a pc that might not develop long term problems, not so sure. And anyway a discussion forum can't warrant manufacturer's goods.

I on the other hand could build for myself a crappy little gaming pc:


CPU: Intel Core i3-12100F 3.3 GHz Quad-Core Processor ($106.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Vetroo V5 52 CFM CPU Cooler ($34.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI MAG B660M BAZOOKA DDR4 Micro ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($148.81 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($78.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair RM650 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($94.99 @ Corsair)
Total: $464.77
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-01-22 05:55 EST-0500

Not too much to cry about if it goes wrong not a work 'puter that needs uptime and the undemanding cpu doesn't need super cooling and it'll do for the time being although more games will eventually get multithreaded so then it falls down needing a stronger mobo for a stronger cpu, for example. So I guess all it shows is big builds cry harder.

You might be better off tackling this from another angle: Is there a way to do what you want with less memory?

 

[geofelt]

What is the app that you are using?
How does the license for 10 cores work.?
Your current I7-7820x has 8 cores but 16 processing threads.
Can the app fully load all 16 threads, or is it mostly single threaded?
As one way to evaluate processors, look at the passmark ratings.
Your I7-7820x has 8 cores/16 threads and a performance rating of 17218. The single thread rating is 2543:
http://valid.x86.fr/bench/747adv
The I9-10980XE mentioned above has 18 cores and a passmark rating of 33134/2658.
It might sell used on ebay for $500.

To compare to the I9-13900K.
It has 8 performance cores with 16 threads, plus 16 lower performing efficient cores. No idea how your app license will deal with that.
The passmark rating is 59994, that is when all threads are fully busy.
The single thread rating is 4688.
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i9-13900K&id=5022
It will require a lga1700 motherboard, and there are none that support more than 128gb of ram.
For that, you are looking at server motherboards.