Question What is the best high end build within the next 1-2 Months

Prince_

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I'm looking for advice on a very high end build. I need better speed when I'm doing work on my computer.

Budget is less of a consideration, but i'm not looking to waste money either. I think I'll probably upgrade my current build so I have more money for the new CPU/mobo/ram.
I think I saw that the next gen threadripper is on the way as well as offerings from intel. Dunno if I should wait around for all that or go for something available now?
My current build is i7 8700K, 2080TI, M.2 Drives, 64gb 3200 ram, maximus x code. It doesn't seem like this build should struggle but I'm throwing a lot at it.

I'm editing a lot of 4K footage and I'm dealing with massive files and fistfuls of terabytes. My current pc is no slouch but it seems to have issues with premiere. I also want to learn aftereffects too but not before I can handle premiere smoothly. I also use photoshop and am a heavy multitasker with many chrome tabs always open.

I would say single threaded performance is still very important but I'm really tired of premiere bogging up and crashing and taking forever to render proxies and previews. I kind of would like to have good game performance but I honestly play games a few times a year if even these days.
 

Darkbreeze

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Pretty much every program you've mentioned is highly CPU intensive, with little, but some, hardware acceleration from the GPU side of things. So you're definitely good in that regard unless you wish to throw some serious cash at a powerful workstation card, but that seems like a waste since these primarily Adobe applications are all programs that utilize CPU and memory more than anything else AND tend to favor very strong single core performance over a truckload of threads no matter how well optimized.

Truthfully, I believe you want to look at HEDT (High end desktop) options rather than consumer options, but as of right now there are really not a lot of choices that offer more single core performance than what you get from that 8700k. The addition of cores could be helpful, to some degree or other, depending on the application.

Honestly, now is probably not the absolute best time for YOU to look at a platform upgrade, when there are new HEDT offerings on the way in the next 6 months or so.

What might make sense is simply dropping a 9900k in there for now. That gives you a 7.22% increase in single core performance over the 8700k. It also gives you two extra physical cores and an additional two hyperthreads, for an overall multithreaded increase of 26.7%.

Selling the 8700k could make up a good portion of that expense as well since they are still very capable upgrades for gaming systems.

If you want to only look at HEDT options, then that is something we can certainly do as well. I really think you'd do well to wait and see what the Intel X and AMD TR offerings look like though. We know Intel isn't going to get much in the way of IPC/Single core gains, most of those will be gaining additional cores, but the TR offerings might be precursors to the Ryzen 3 platform, with at least some additional onboard cache and other refinements. All speculation on my part of course. I think when you are this close to new releases though it always pays to at least SEE what they offer, even if finally the answer is that it's nothing that was worth waiting for. At least you know then.

Beyond that, IDK.

I'm going to assume you are already using some form of NVME storage devices or at least have a large fast SSD of some kind for caching in those programs and file storage/access?
 

kanewolf

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You really need to determine what is limiting you. Is it your CPU? Your RAM? Your storage? It could be any (or all).
Your 8700K is only a dual channel memory CPU. A ThreadRipper, or a HEDT or a Xeon will have more channels of memory controller. That means faster data in and out of your CPU.
 

Darkbreeze

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I agree, for these kinds of applications, memory architecture is definitely a big consideration. While it may not be something that makes a huge difference on gaming systems, for productivity and professional applications it's a much different story. Bandwidth is much more impactful in that arena.
 

Prince_

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You really need to determine what is limiting you. Is it your CPU? Your RAM? Your storage? It could be any (or all).
Your 8700K is only a dual channel memory CPU. A ThreadRipper, or a HEDT or a Xeon will have more channels of memory controller. That means faster data in and out of your CPU.
When it comes to editing, the biggest bottle neck other than frequent crashes is just general sluggishness while editing on big timelines. I make long form tutorials with 4K footage from multiple cameras. This is all rather new to me so I can't say I have much of a baseline for my expectations but it always feels sluggish and it heavily deters me from experimenting with even some of the baked in transitions as it locks up my rig for a time. Faster rendering and transcoding times would be nice but not as a trade off to performance while manipulating the timeline.
I don't have any experience with quad channel mem so I don't know if that would help, but if it would I'm all for it. But doesn't that normally come in for the high core count CPUS with lower clock speeds? Current ram I think is 3200 corsair. 64GB total

As for storage, its a struggle with the sheer volume of data my projects have added in recent months, but I've mostly got a handle on it until I can spring for a proper NAS and 10gbe.
My OS drive is a 1TB 960 PRO NVME
Drive 2 2TB 979 EVO NVME
Drive 3 4TB 860 EVO SSD
Drive 4 2TB 850 EVO SSD
Then for longer term storage I've just had to shove everything on some external 10TB WD drives (X2) with google drive as the only redundancy at the moment.
 

Prince_

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I agree, for these kinds of applications, memory architecture is definitely a big consideration. While it may not be something that makes a huge difference on gaming systems, for productivity and professional applications it's a much different story. Bandwidth is much more impactful in that arena.
I sounds like it might help, but I really have no experience with it. I would want to maintain high clock speed if possible. Overall the most important thing for me is increasing performance while working on these media projects (photoshop to premire) and increasing stability. I get crashes in premiere all the damn time for some reason. Everything else is just fine though.
 

Prince_

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One thing I'm mulling over is updating my main rig now and building a dedicated video editing rig when it feels like the right time. (finances depending)
If I were to upgrade right now, or within the next week or two or so (CPU/MOBO/RAM) what would make the most sense? Should I be going for quad channel? Or would that involve a big tradeoff on single core performance?

As for budget, I'd probably be willing to spend a few grand on just the upgrade if it will keep me from pulling my hair out while editing, and hopefully getting an overall speed boost in general.
 

Darkbreeze

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Slow, could be anything. Crashes, indicate there is a problem. Regardless of how complex or large your project is, the system should not crash unless there is an issue with drivers, a hardware problem or a lack of clean power to something. It's very unlikely to simply be due to "not good enough".

What is the EXACT model of your power supply?



Couple of things do, is download and run the Intel processor diagnostic tool.

Then run Memtest to see if there is a memory issue.



Memtest86


Go to the Passmark software website and download the USB Memtest86 free version. You can do the optical disk version too if for some reason you cannot use a bootable USB flash drive.

Create bootable media using the downloaded Memtest86 (NOT Memtest86+, that is a different, older version and is outdated). Once you have done that, go into your BIOS and configure the system to boot to the USB drive that contains the Memtest86 USB media or the optical drive if using that option.


Create a bootable USB Flash drive:

1. Download the Windows MemTest86 USB image.

2. Right click on the downloaded file and select the "Extract to Here" option. This places the USB image and imaging tool into the current folder.

3. Run the included imageUSB tool, it should already have the image file selected and you just need to choose which connected USB drive to turn into a bootable drive. Note that this will erase all data on the drive.



No memory should ever fail to pass Memtest86 when it is at the default configuration that the system sets it at when you start out or do a clear CMOS by removing the CMOS battery for five minutes.

Best method for testing memory is to first run four passes of Memtest86, all 11 tests, WITH the memory at the default configuration. This should be done BEFORE setting the memory to the XMP profile settings. The paid version has 13 tests but the free version only has tests 1-10 and test 13. So run full passes of all 11 tests. Be sure to download the latest version of Memtest86. Memtest86+ has not been updated in MANY years. It is NO-WISE as good as regular Memtest86 from Passmark software.

If there are ANY errors, at all, then the memory configuration is not stable. Bumping the DRAM voltage up slightly may resolve that OR you may need to make adjustments to the primary timings. There are very few secondary or tertiary timings that should be altered. I can tell you about those if you are trying to tighten your memory timings.

If you cannot pass Memtest86 with the memory at the XMP configuration settings then I would recommend restoring the memory to the default JEDEC SPD of 1333/2133mhz (Depending on your platform and memory type) with everything left on the auto/default configuration and running Memtest86 over again. If it completes the four full passes without error you can try again with the XMP settings but first try bumping the DRAM voltage up once again by whatever small increment the motherboard will allow you to increase it by. If it passes, great, move on to the Prime95 testing.

If it still fails, try once again bumping the voltage if you are still within the maximum allowable voltage for your memory type and test again. If it still fails, you are likely going to need more advanced help with configuring your primary timings and should return the memory to the default configuration until you can sort it out.

If the memory will not pass Memtest86 for four passes when it IS at the stock default non-XMP configuration, even after a minor bump in voltage, then there is likely something physically wrong with one or more of the memory modules and I'd recommend running Memtest on each individual module, separately, to determine which module is causing the issue. If you find a single module that is faulty you should contact the seller or the memory manufacturer and have them replace the memory as a SET. Memory comes matched for a reason as I made clear earlier and if you let them replace only one module rather than the entire set you are back to using unmatched memory which is an open door for problems with incompatible memory.

Be aware that you SHOULD run Memtest86 to test the memory at the default, non-XMP, non-custom profile settings BEFORE ever making any changes to the memory configuration so that you will know if the problem is a setting or is a physical problem with the memory.
 

Prince_

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oh no, the system isn't crashing, just premiere. And it will get to the point where sometimes I can't even open the project or the backups or autosaves either. Just auto crashes when loading in.
 

Darkbreeze

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Adding a bunch of cores probably isn't terribly helpful with Adobe applications, since they primarily tend to favor strong single core performance over a multitude of cores.

Have you tried uninstalling and reinstalling Premier?

Is this a legit licensed copy of Premier which is also up to date with all updates?
 

Prince_

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Adding a bunch of cores probably isn't terribly helpful with Adobe applications, since they primarily tend to favor strong single core performance over a multitude of cores.

Have you tried uninstalling and reinstalling Premier?

Is this a legit licensed copy of Premier which is also up to date with all updates?
Yes on both. The thing is, I can start a new project fine, but sometimes a project will start crashing and it'll never work again. I'll open the project, but within a second or two it doesn't like to render one of the clip previews or something and it crashes. I've tried resetting cache and preferences and such as well. Even more strange, all of the autosaves and alternate backups I made with it also crash now, even after updating. I actually reformatted my OS drive several months back because I literally could not get premiere to load at all, different issue, but it was only fixed by total reinstall of everything. Really don't have time for that now, I've got a lot of programs and presets everywhere I use.
 

Darkbreeze

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What does your cooling configuration look like?

CPU cooler?

Case?

Case fan arrangement and orientation?

Have you installed HWinfo (NOT HWmonitor, Speccy, Openhardware monitor or any other utility) or Core Temp, and kept an eye on the core and package thermals when running premier with these projects to see if there are thermal issues?

I'm pretty sure that wouldn't have anything to do with the projects not working properly when you try to open them or not being able to ever open them again later, but it would be a good idea to check those things anyhow.

Of MUCH more concern, is the possibility that you have a memory instability problem that isn't bad enough to cause blue screens or restarts normally but is corrupting your Premier data during saves and caching. Micro-errors are real, and tend to do this exact thing, although it usually tends to take a while for errors to accumulate in a file before you see this kind of problem.

I'd still absolutely run Memtest86 as I outlined above to make sure there is no configuration problem OR some physical problem with the memory that only becomes apparent when running the types of instructions used in Premier, which may not be commonly used elsewhere in the majority of other applications.
 

Prince_

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What does your cooling configuration look like?

CPU cooler?

Case?

Case fan arrangement and orientation?

Have you installed HWinfo (NOT HWmonitor, Speccy, Openhardware monitor or any other utility) or Core Temp, and kept an eye on the core and package thermals when running premier with these projects to see if there are thermal issues?

I'm pretty sure that wouldn't have anything to do with the projects not working properly when you try to open them or not being able to ever open them again later, but it would be a good idea to check those things anyhow.

Of MUCH more concern, is the possibility that you have a memory instability problem that isn't bad enough to cause blue screens or restarts normally but is corrupting your Premier data during saves and caching. Micro-errors are real, and tend to do this exact thing, although it usually tends to take a while for errors to accumulate in a file before you see this kind of problem.

I'd still absolutely run Memtest86 as I outlined above to make sure there is no configuration problem OR some physical problem with the memory that only becomes apparent when running the types of instructions used in Premier, which may not be commonly used elsewhere in the majority of other applications.
Cooler: Thermaltake Floe Triple Riing RGB 360 TT Premium Edition
Case: Thermaltake View 37 RGB E-ATX Mid Tower
Fans: 3 pull on front, 1 exhaust, psu and gpu exhausted out, rad doesn't have great airflow but not the worst. I haven't watched a specific program for thermals and seems to operate fine for most things. I'll try the apps you suggest and see. In the meanwhile I just started my edit over and its more or less editing fine other than scrubbing performance being low but thats always like that, even with proxies... even at 1/8th quality and 10% scale. blows my mind
 

Darkbreeze

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So, a few suggestions, and if you've done some or all of these already, don't be offended that I recommended them again. It's just always good to be sure that the basics have been addressed because usually something basic is the answer, in the end. Not always to be sure, but often enough that it is worth being absolutely sure you don't overlook anything.

If there are any steps listed here that you have not already done, it would be advisable to do so if for no other reason than to be able to say you've already done it and eliminate that possibility.



First,

make sure your motherboard has the MOST recent BIOS version installed. If it does not, then update. This solves a high number of issues even in cases where the release that is newer than yours makes no mention of improving graphics card or other hardware compatibility. They do not list every change they have made when they post a new BIOS release.


Second,

go to the product page for your motherboard on the manufacturer website. Download and install the latest driver versions for the chipset, storage controllers, audio and network adapters. Do not skip installing a newer driver just because you think it is not relevant to the problem you are having. The drivers for one device can often affect ALL other devices and a questionable driver release can cause instability in the OS itself. They don't release new drivers just for fun. If there is a new driver release for a component, there is a good reason for it. The same goes for BIOS updates.


IF you have other hardware installed or attached to the system that are not a part of the systems covered by the motherboard drivers, then go to the support page for THAT component and check to see if there are newer drivers available for that as well. If there are, install them.


Third,

Make sure your memory is running at the correct advertised speed in the BIOS. This may require that you set the memory to run at the XMP profile settings. Also, make sure you have the memory installed in the correct slots and that they are running in dual channel which you can check by installing CPU-Z and checking the Memory and SPD tabs. For all modern motherboards that are dual channel memory architectures, from the last ten years at least, if you have two sticks installed they should be in the A2 (Called DDR4_1 on some boards) or B2 (Called DDR4_2 on some boards) which are ALWAYS the SECOND and FOURTH slots over from the CPU socket, counting TOWARDS the edge of the motherboard EXCEPT on boards that only have two memory slots total. In that case, if you have two modules it's not rocket science, but if you have only one, then install it in the A1 or DDR4_1 slot.


The last thing we want to look at,

for now anyhow, is the graphics card drivers. Regardless of whether you "already installed the newest drivers" for your graphics card or not, it is OFTEN a good idea to do a CLEAN install of the graphics card drivers. Just installing over the old drivers OR trying to use what Nvidia and AMD consider a clean install is not good enough and does not usually give the same result as using the Display Driver Uninstaller utility. This has a very high success rate and is always worth a shot.


If you have had both Nvidia and AMD cards installed at any point on that operating system then you will want to run the DDU twice. Once for the old card drivers (ie, Nvidia or AMD) and again for the currently installed graphics card drivers (ie, AMD or Nvidia). So if you had an Nvidia card at some point in the past, run it first for Nvidia and then after that is complete, run it again for AMD if you currently have an AMD card installed.

 

Prince_

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My original thread was mainly about wondering what would be best to build but it kind of evolved into a tech support inquiry to diagnose premiere issues. I figured I should reply since I have updates on both fronts.

As for premiere, I got sick to death of troubleshooting, and adobe support was just useless, and it was just going on and on and burning more hours so just I did a clean install of windows and premiere and was able to recover my project and finish the video. That doesn't really count as a fix to me. I have no idea what was causing it to go fubar, and its always a big time sink to go and have to reinstall and update everything too. It didn't seem to be hardware related in any case or reinstalling probably wouldn't have done anything.

As for the original purpose of the thread, I've been doing some research and I've decided to give the HEDT arena a shot. I'm building an enthusiast level build with 3970X and Asus Zenith II Extreme. Still trying to figure out ram selection (posted a thread on this topic too)

But based on the benchmarks I've been seeing I think this route is going to greatly improve speed and my quality of life while editing and rendering and serve me well for years.
 

Prince_

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How much memory are you planning to run?
Probably 64GB unless there is a compelling reason (as an enthusiast user, but not multi user production) to go 128. Trying to work out the ideal speed, and if I will lose any notable performance by going 8 sticks instead of 4 due to the supported frequency drop.
 

Darkbreeze

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I would go with only four sticks. The more sticks you add, the more stress there is on the memory controller and since this is a quad channel memory architecture anything more than four sticks isn't going to benefit from a higher 8 channel configuration like some Epyc platforms do.

Plus, then you leave room to add more memory later, even though we really recommend buying ALL of the memory you think you are going to need from the start in one kit, if you decide that 64GB isn't enough. Even so, if you think you will need 128GB it would be a good idea to get that all from the start in one kit.

You can do that two ways, with 8 x16GB DIMMs or 4 x32GB DIMMs. The least number of DIMMs you'd want to use would be four since that gives you some appreciable performance through quad channel operation but you certainly CAN use all 8 if you need to such as if there is a very significant difference in price between getting your full desired memory capacity with an 8 DIMM kit versus a 4 DIMM kit. The only problem with that is, as I said, there is an increase in stress on the memory controller when you are running double the number of DIMMs PLUS you are doubling the opportunity for there to be an incompatibility between one of the memory modules and the rest.

Buying them all in ONE kit usually avoids that issue since they will be tested for compatibility at the manufacturer, but it's not ALWAYS a guarantee, as we've seen before with members who had 8 DIMM kits where not only one didn't work, but then the manufacturer (Wrongly) tried sending them just a single replacement, which would work fine, but not with the rest of the sticks in the kit, only by itself. That is why you should always insist on the full kit being replaced if EVER something goes wrong with any stick of memory that came in a multiple stick kit.
 

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