Question What parts needs an upgrade? System is choking

BlueBeast

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Hey!

After a long break from the hardware and tech world I’ve returned and feel completely restarted in knowledge

When I play CS:GO in 4:3 1280x960 I get lag spikes and freezes with max fps at 200, game takes about a minute to open up from minimised - as well as being stuck in loading screen for 3-4 minutes. Happens in most games

Current specs:
4x4 3200mhz DDR4
6 years old 780gtx ti x2 SLI
I5-6600K 3.5ghz with H110i attached
512gb Main SSD for applications
256gb game SSD
4TB storage HDD

Was thinking of RTX 2080 TI but I’m worried about bottlenecking it, my goal is clean gameplay with 144hz and possibility for 4K gaming
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
System is choking? Heimlich maneuver. One good oooomph. Poomp. Ok, playin'.

FIRST thing we need to know is what your EXACT power supply model number is?

Also, how old is that power supply?

Have you TRIED it with a single GTX 780, rather than the SLI configuration? Many modern games will not be playable with SLI or Crossfire. Some are playable, but barely. Others have no optimization at all for multi card configurations or completely lack support for SLI and Crossfire.

Also, have you done a CLEAN install of the graphics drivers, using the DDU?

What version of Windows are you using AND how old is the installation. In other words, how long since a clean install of windows was done?
 

BlueBeast

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Well in that case I’m suited for the job, just refreshed my first aid course this Wednesday:)

My power supply is a cooler master v1000 Gold so there should be more than enough juice. This power supply is just as old as the SLI cards so about 5-6 years

Made a clean install about 2 months ago and I’m running windows 10
 

Wolfshadw

Titan
Moderator
Well, if you're ready to perform a complete system build, the first thing I'd recommend is a clean install of Windows on your current system. Clean out all the other garbage that's accumulated over the years and start CS:GO on a clean install. See if/how that improves performance. If you're still not happy with it, then you can do the system overhaul.

-Wolf sends
 
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Vic 40

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Yes, similar results.
Tested each card on it's own,or just the one in the primary slot?

Not doing this to keep things cheap,but it might be good to know what the problem is before upgrading to just a new gpu for instance.

Saw in another thread that resetting the bios to optimal default values might even help with problems and is easily done. Can always (re)enable XMP after testing that.
 
There is something wrong if it takes minutes to load or restore a game.
Possibly your SSD devices are near full which can slow them down.
Some brands are not so good. What do you now have.

Have you overclocked your 6600K?
As of 12/04/2016
What percent can get an overclock at a somewhat sane 1.40v Vcore.

I5-6600K

4.9 14%
4.8 38%
4.7 67%
4.6 87%

For fast action games, I would suspect your sli GTX780 is an issue.

Some games are graphics limited like fast action shooters.
Others are cpu core speed limited like strategy, sims, and mmo.
Multiplayer tends to like many threads.

You need to find out which.
------------------------------------------------------------
To help clarify your CPU/GPU options, run these two tests:

a) Run YOUR games, but lower your resolution and eye candy.
If your FPS increases, it indicates that your cpu is strong enough to drive a better graphics configuration.
If your FPS stays the same, you are likely more cpu limited.

b) Limit your cpu, either by reducing the OC, or, in windows power management, limit the maximum cpu% to something like 70%.
Go to control panel/power options/change plan settings/change advanced power settings/processor power management/maximum processor state/
This will simulate what a lack of cpu power will do.
Conversely what a 30% improvement in core speed might do.

You should also experiment with removing one or more cores/threads. You can do this in the windows msconfig boot advanced options option.
You will need to reboot for the change to take effect. Set the number of threads to less than you have.
This will tell you how sensitive your games are to the benefits of many threads.
If you see little difference, your game does not need all the threads you have.



It is possible that both tests are positive, indicating that you have a well balanced system,
and both cpu and gpu need to be upgraded to get better gaming FPS.
-------------------------------------------------------------

From a gaming performance point of view, a RTX2080ti is as good as it gets today.
I think a 9700K overclocked to perhaps 5.0 on all cores is about as good as it gets for gaming.

What does your $2000 budget include?
You can eat up a lot of that with a top monitor.

Do you plan to reuse some of your parts and case?
 
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BlueBeast

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Well, if you're ready to perform a complete system build, the first thing I'd recommend is a clean install of Windows on your current system. Clean out all the other garbage that's accumulated over the years and start CS:GO on a clean install. See if/how that improves performance. If you're still not happy with it, then you can do the system overhaul.

-Wolf sends
There is something wrong if it takes minutes to load or restore a game.
Possibly your SSD devices are near full which can slow them down.
Some brands are not so good. What do you now have.

Have you overclocked your 6600K?
As of 12/04/2016
What percent can get an overclock at a somewhat sane 1.40v Vcore.

I5-6600K

4.9 14%
4.8 38%
4.7 67%
4.6 87%

For fast action games, I would suspect your sli GTX780 is an issue.

Some games are graphics limited like fast action shooters.
Others are cpu core speed limited like strategy, sims, and mmo.
Multiplayer tends to like many threads.

You need to find out which.
------------------------------------------------------------
To help clarify your CPU/GPU options, run these two tests:

a) Run YOUR games, but lower your resolution and eye candy.
If your FPS increases, it indicates that your cpu is strong enough to drive a better graphics configuration.
If your FPS stays the same, you are likely more cpu limited.

b) Limit your cpu, either by reducing the OC, or, in windows power management, limit the maximum cpu% to something like 70%.
Go to control panel/power options/change plan settings/change advanced power settings/processor power management/maximum processor state/
This will simulate what a lack of cpu power will do.
Conversely what a 30% improvement in core speed might do.

You should also experiment with removing one or more cores/threads. You can do this in the windows msconfig boot advanced options option.
You will need to reboot for the change to take effect. Set the number of threads to less than you have.
This will tell you how sensitive your games are to the benefits of many threads.
If you see little difference, your game does not need all the threads you have.



It is possible that both tests are positive, indicating that you have a well balanced system,
and both cpu and gpu need to be upgraded to get better gaming FPS.
It's not that I don't appreciate the advice, I really do but to be totally honest I'm done troubleshooting my current build. I'm looking for an upgrade not a fix if you catch me.

I'm also pretty sure that CS:GO is single core based.
 

BlueBeast

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A 27" or 32" 1440p 144Hz variable refresh rate monitor is much more realistic than 4k if that's the way you're headed.
Yeah after doing some research I realized that even though I have a large budget, it's simple just too expensive. So I changed my mind and I'm probably going to buy a 1080p or 1440p 144hz 1ms main monitor and a "budget" 4k screen as my secondary monitor.




From a gaming performance point of view, a RTX2080ti is as good as it gets today.
I think a 9700K overclocked to perhaps 5.0 on all cores is about as good as it gets for gaming.

What does your $2000 budget include?
You can eat up a lot of that with a top monitor.

Do you plan to reuse some of your parts and case?
What country are you in?

What do you have NOW, that you absolutely do not want or feel you need, to replace. (Subject to discussion of course. :) )
I plan on keeping as many parts as possible, I don't see any reason to swap my hard drives, case, cooling system and power supply. I don't think I need to change my MB or CPU but this could very well be ignorance from my side, so if you advice doing so I would change those to gain full compatibility with the RTX 2080 TI. Initially I wanted to change my GPU and monitors as my number 1 priority, anything else can, of course, be discussed or perhaps be a necessity

I'm living in Denmark btw
 
If you primarily play CSGO, and it is largely single threaded, then you want the best single threaded processor available.
Today, that will be an intel 9th gen K suffix processor.
The i5-9600K, i7-9700K and i9-9900K are all capable of running at 5.0 or close to it.
There are now also KF versions that do not include integrated graphics and are a bit cheaper.
Using the intel performance maximizer and a Z390 motherboard, you can get the max out of your particular chip.
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-cpu-auto-overclock-performance-maximizer,6179.html
For example:
As of 2/6/2019
What percent can get an overclock at a somewhat sane Vcore in the 1.337 to 1.375 range.
And AVX offset = 2.

I7-9700K

5.2 10%
5.1 35%
5.0 78%
4.9 100%

You pick the number of threads you need, 6/8/16 respectively.
Most games do not make effective use of more than the 4 threads you now have on the 6600K.
 
Reactions: digitalgriffin
Made 2 lists, one Intel one AMD
I focused most money on the gpu as you said you wanted 4k. Both of these cpus are nearly identical in performance but the i5 can be overclocked further for maximum single core performance, which is why i included a beefy cooler.
You could also cut cost by scavenging the old RAM, case and SSDs. Those cuts could be put towards a better cpu. i7 9700k on Intel side or Ryzen 7 3700x on AMD side, no changes would be needed to other parts if you go with either of these.

Intel:
PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-9600K 3.7 GHz 6-Core Processor (€239.00 @ Caseking)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 82.5 CFM CPU Cooler (€87.79 @ Aquatuning)
Motherboard: MSI MAG Z390 TOMAHAWK ATX LGA1151 Motherboard (€152.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: Patriot Viper Steel 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory (€89.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: Samsung 970 Evo Plus 500 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (€105.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti 11 GB Black Video Card (€1149.00 @ Caseking)
Case: Corsair Carbide Series 275R ATX Mid Tower Case (€68.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Power Supply: Super Flower Leadex III Gold 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€99.90 @ Caseking)
Total: €1993.47
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-10-11 18:20 CEST+0200



AMD:
PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor (€199.00 @ Caseking)
Motherboard: ASRock X570 Pro4 ATX AM4 Motherboard (€178.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: Patriot Viper Steel 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory (€89.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: Samsung 970 Evo Plus 500 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (€105.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti 11 GB Black Video Card (€1149.00 @ Caseking)
Case: Corsair Carbide Series 275R ATX Mid Tower Case (€68.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Power Supply: Super Flower Leadex III Gold 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€99.90 @ Caseking)
Total: €1891.68
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-10-11 18:23 CEST+0200
 
When I play CS:GO in 4:3 1280x960 I get lag spikes and freezes with max fps at 200, game takes about a minute to open up from minimised - as well as being stuck in loading screen for 3-4 minutes. Happens in most games
I plan on keeping as many parts as possible, I don't see any reason to swap my hard drives, case, cooling system and power supply.
It's not that I don't appreciate the advice, I really do but to be totally honest I'm done troubleshooting my current build. I'm looking for an upgrade not a fix if you catch me.
The problem is, how do you even know it's your graphics hardware that's given you trouble? For all we know, a drive might be causing these freezes, or maybe the CPU is overheating due to a failed cooler, or the power supply is not delivering stable voltage. If you intend on re-using hardware, it's probably worth making sure that the hardware is not the actual source of your issues.

At a bit more than 720p resolution, I would expect even a single GTX 780 to handle CS:GO reasonably well. A 2080 Ti is probably going to be massive overkill for running CS:GO, though it's possible there might be some benefit if you move to a 1440p 144Hz or higher screen.
 
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Ketchup79

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It is one thing to be able to use multi cores.
It is another to effectively use many of them.
The test is... if you add more threads to a game, does your performance improve commensurately?
A back handed way to test this on these new 8+ thread processors is to take away one thread and see if it actually makes a difference.
 
Perhaps your chosen server's bandwidth and/or your won does not keep up with your 200 fps?

Try a lower capped FPS at 60 fps and see if your playing is less chunky/laggy...

(Everyone wants 200 fps, but, not every server can keep up with your inputs, much less everyone else trying 200-300 fps inputs)

Heaven only knows how I played games so long at only only 60 fps max....! :)
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
I don't see any reason to swap my hard drives, case, cooling system and power supply. I don't think I need to change my MB or CPU
Ok, so what do you plan to upgrade, because you've eliminated every upgrade that might make any difference at all. A 2080 TI with a 6600k puts you right back in the same position you're in now. You will be wasting about half the potential of that graphics card because the 6600k will NOT be capable of keeping up with it, by any stretch of the imagination.

Plus, as mentioned, your problem might not even BE primarily your hardware. If you don't have a great ISP connection, or a very good router, or a very good network adapter/card, or others in the house are sucking down bandwidth when you're trying to game, or any of a bunch of other flavors of chocolate in the box, you could very well upgrade your whole system and not improve anything PLUS as was also mentioned, if you're hitting a slower or unreliable server, that might be a factor too. Honestly though, in your case, it's PROBABLY hardware.

My 6700k can't even keep up with the 2060 Super I just bought, so I know for sure your 6600k can't keep up with a 2080TI and your SLI cards are likely part of the problem themselves, because there is practically literally zero support for SLI or Crossfire profiles anymore, and a single 780 ti is outperformed by 40-60% by a lowly GTX 1660. So I agree that new hardware is part of the problem, but just slapping a new graphics card in there isn't going to do a thing for the consistency of your frame rates most probably. Not without a CPU that can maintain them.
 

BlueBeast

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Ok, so what do you plan to upgrade, because you've eliminated every upgrade that might make any difference at all. A 2080 TI with a 6600k puts you right back in the same position you're in now. You will be wasting about half the potential of that graphics card because the 6600k will NOT be capable of keeping up with it, by any stretch of the imagination.

Plus, as mentioned, your problem might not even BE primarily your hardware. If you don't have a great ISP connection, or a very good router, or a very good network adapter/card, or others in the house are sucking down bandwidth when you're trying to game, or any of a bunch of other flavors of chocolate in the box, you could very well upgrade your whole system and not improve anything PLUS as was also mentioned, if you're hitting a slower or unreliable server, that might be a factor too. Honestly though, in your case, it's PROBABLY hardware.

My 6700k can't even keep up with the 2060 Super I just bought, so I know for sure your 6600k can't keep up with a 2080TI and your SLI cards are likely part of the problem themselves, because there is practically literally zero support for SLI or Crossfire profiles anymore, and a single 780 ti is outperformed by 40-60% by a lowly GTX 1660. So I agree that new hardware is part of the problem, but just slapping a new graphics card in there isn't going to do a thing for the consistency of your frame rates most probably. Not without a CPU that can maintain them.
This is the answer I've been waiting for. I literally said I was thinking about a 2080 TI but I'm worried about bottlenecking it. So the conclusion to all of this is that I would need a new CPU to support a recent GPU. Btw I'm running on a 100/100mbit fiber connection.

What parts can I salvage from my current rig? (Yes I'm retarded and listed the wrong CPU - I doubled checked this list now):
  • 4x4gb DDR4 3200mhz ram
  • Intel Core i5-7600K @ 3.80GHz with H110i 280mm
  • ASRock Z270 Extreme4 Motherboard
  • 2x GTX 780 Ti SLI
  • 1000W Coolermaster gold
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
RAM is good.

What is your case model and what does your case cooling configuration look like?

CPU cooler is good.

I'd say you want to do a motherboard, CPU and graphics card, if the rest are good. PSU we need to look at. All the reviews of that V1000 seem to be from 2013 which means it's probably ~6 years old, and looking back you've said as much. I wouldn't trust it with brand new, high end hardware. It's already older than the warranty on it was and we know that beyond five years back those units really were not designed to LAST longer than the warranty by much, especially when being pushed in a high demand gaming rig.

So what do you think your budget would be for motherboard, CPU, graphics card and power supply? I think you'd be surprised by how easily you could significantly exceed the performance of your current hardware without having to take out a loan or sell body parts. Won't be cheap, but doesn't necessarily have to match the price of a good used truck either. And also, what country are you in. Not sure if I asked that before. I don't think so.
 

BlueBeast

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RAM is good.

What is your case model and what does your case cooling configuration look like?

CPU cooler is good.

I'd say you want to do a motherboard, CPU and graphics card, if the rest are good. PSU we need to look at. All the reviews of that V1000 seem to be from 2013 which means it's probably ~6 years old, and looking back you've said as much. I wouldn't trust it with brand new, high end hardware. It's already older than the warranty on it was and we know that beyond five years back those units really were not designed to LAST longer than the warranty by much, especially when being pushed in a high demand gaming rig.

So what do you think your budget would be for motherboard, CPU, graphics card and power supply? I think you'd be surprised by how easily you could significantly exceed the performance of your current hardware without having to take out a loan or sell body parts. Won't be cheap, but doesn't necessarily have to match the price of a good used truck either. And also, what country are you in. Not sure if I asked that before. I don't think so.
I'd say my max comfortable budget for this month is 1200£/$1500, and I've decided that Ti is overkill which is why I'm aiming for e.g RTX 2080 MSI Trio. So if possible I'd like at least a 144hz screen either 1440p or 1080p (most realistic with the current budget) and the necessary parts which seem to be MB, GPU, CPU, and PSU. I'm very aware that $1500 is probably not going to cut it(?) as it turns out I couldn't get away with just replacing my GPU and CPU as I naively dreamed off hahaha


Regarding my current cooling setup and case, I believe I have an okay solid setup. I'm using the 280mm H110i CPU watercooler as mentioned, and I got an NZXT H440 with the pre-installed NZXT fans which is 3x 120mm rear and 1x 140mm front


I'm living in Denmark, think I mentioned it earlier but no worries :)
 

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