What performs better? A64 3000+ or AXP 3000+

[hatimh]

I'm looking to buy a gaming system, but now I'm just wondering if I really need to go 64 bit?

I know the subject says AXP3000+ but I was thinking of OCing a 2500+ barton.

If I get good RAM 2*512
and I've heard about 6600GT graphics card being good value so might go with that.

I'm thinking about ABIT NF7-S with AXP barton 2500+ OCd to however high it can go safely.

OR

Pat on the forum suggests Soltek K8AN2E-GR with A64 3000+ (754) I don't know how much that can OC to as I don't have much experience with A64.

I'm not really going to go with the extreme overclocking, I just want safe overclocking with stock cooling.

That in mind... My questions are as follows.

1. Which of the two set ups would perform better overall
2. As far as I can see the main difference in price between the two setups is that the A64 is almost double the price of the barton 2500+, it's not THAT MUCH, so does that make it more sensible to go 64 to be slightly future proof.

I'm sure there are other questions, but I can't remember them right now.



-----------------------------------
The bigger I am, the harder they fall.

 

[pat]

For gaming, I really suggest going with AMD64 CPU, as they poerform well and cool. As for overclocking, I can run my board at 10x215, which give me 2.15 GHz on the CPU. Islowed it down to 10x210 for assured stability and component long term reliability as I often sell both the cpu and board when I upgrade again. I run stock cooling and I have a fan controller to cut in hale the speed of my cases's fan, to have a very silent PC. I do watch movies with my computer connected to my TV on my living room, and that matte to me... much more than a few more MHZ...

Coupld with a fast videocard, the 754 3200+ will perform well enough without overclocking or with mild overclocking as I did. Or you can buy the 939 3200+ and overclock it to get at least the speed of the 754 3200+ ... because they are really slow CPU...see, a 3200+ socket 939 is only a little bit faster than a 3000+ 754...That why I guess peoples overclock them...

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!

 

[peteroy]

Most games today make use of the SSE2 extension and the Athlon XP does not have it.

Athlon 64 has SSE2 extension and integrated memory controller, so it is a lot more suitable for modern games.

<A HREF="http://www.clancas.net" target="_new">clan CHAOS</A>

 

[pauldh]

There is no question that the A64 is the better gamer. Shoot OC, the AXP to 400MHz higher, it's still far behind an A64. Months ago, an new AXP still made sense for a value gamer. But where are you getting your prices from? The price difference isn't that huge now from what I have seen.

Memory is the same, the mobo can cost about the same depending on the socket A64 or features you want, and the CPU difference isn't that huge anymore(almost the same) as A64's have come down and AXP's have gone up. (Here in the USA anyway). Whole system wise, you could do S754 A64 3000+ for $20 over NF2 AXP-3000+. Or spend a little more on both mobo and cpu for S939.

IMO, A mobile XP OC'ed is still an option. But honeslty comparing a whole system cost, stepping up to an A64 isn't that much more costly. It's virtually identical.

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[pauldh]

If you go the barton route. Do a Mobile XP2500+. The NF7-S is a great mobo. But be careful as a the legendary NF7-S revision 2 with Soundstorm is more rare and costlier than a NF7-S2 with no soundstorm.


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[Cybercraig]

I think the Mobile XP clocked to 2.4ghz will score about the same as an A64-3000+ with the same GPU in 3dMark. This would indicate that the A64 is about 20% faster at the same clock speed. The Mobile won't run Win 64 worth a damn tho! Barton for back-up PC? Fine. Barton for primary PC? Why?

Abit IS7 - 3.0C @ 3.6ghz - Mushkin PC4000 (2 X 512) - Sapphire 9800Pro - TT 420 watt Pure Power
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[hatimh]

I'd just like to say thank you for responding so quickly and convincingly.

Up until now I didn't really know how much better an A64 platform would be and just had the misconception that it would cost a lot more.

I guess I will go A64.

So if you guys don't mind persevering a little more with me......

I have seen that PCI-E graphics cards are better priced than AGP. It's my understanding that for PCI-E I would need to go 939. Is that right or is it, if I want to go PCI-E I would have to go NForce 4? Is it possible to get 754 with PCI-E?

I have chosen to go for Corsair value select RAM matched pair 2*512 cl2.5, Anybody know if this RAM would reach 210-215 fsb? The reason I'm going for this is that the price is good.

-----------------------------------
The bigger I am, the harder they fall.

 

[Cybercraig]

PCI-E only available in socket 939. The ram may or may not go there. Want to be sure? Buy PC3500.

Abit IS7 - 3.0C @ 3.6ghz - Mushkin PC4000 (2 X 512) - Sapphire 9800Pro - TT 420 watt Pure Power
Samsung 120gb ATA-100 - Maxtor 40gb ATA - 100
Sony DRU-510A - Yellowtail Merlot

 

[endyen]

I am running samsung generic pc3200. It has been running for about 3 months @ 222mhz and cl2.5. Of course, a lot depends on the on die memory controller, and the traces on the mobo. Truth is that if it wont run at higher speeds, you dont loose much by choosing lower speeds. You can set the mem bus to 166/333 speeds, and have to go to about 201 to get the same perf as 200/400 with the 210 oc.
Most decent ram is good for 10% no sweat.

 

[funkdog]

Here's an interesting read about overclocking a mobile barton which you costs about $95. Athlon64 costs 118-174.

Depending on your budget.. XP gets stomped in memory benches.. so depending on what your going to do with your computer...

And keep in mind these benches are for a mobile barton at 200x12. These chips can do much more than that.

<A HREF="http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q1/athlonxp-m-2500/index.x?pg=1" target="_new">http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q1/athlonxp-m-2500/index.x?pg=1</A>

<b>"These are my thoughts, your mileage may vary."

 

[pat]

PCIe for 754 should be available shortly, as some company, like Soltek has announced some board. I dont know how long to have them thou...

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!

 

[hatimh]

That was a very interesting read, thanks for the link, short and sweet, not to mention well written.

Hmmm so PCI-E will be available on 754.....couple of things there...which I'm thinking. a) I have to wait for it to come out. b) I checked the prices of the 754 3000+ and the 939 3000+ and there's nothing in it, the price is almost the same.

The only reason to hesitate is as Pat said in another thread, why be a guinea pig for the 939 platform and the dual channel on 939 seems to make a very small difference in performance. But if the CPU costs are similar, I haven't actually checked yet but I doubt mobo prices will be so different either.

Why not go 939 all the way? Any reasons not to?

-----------------------------------
The bigger I am, the harder they fall.

 

[funkdog]

For me, I don't do much extreme gaming, so pushing the barton core to 260mhz FSB, in my mind would help to close the gap in memory performance against the 64. And as far as pure x86 apps, raw horespower reigns, and pushing the barton into the 3ghz range definately puts it on par with the 64.

As far as I've read to date the AGP8x and early PCI-E are neck and neck. But I could be wrong.

Happy gaming, hope you enjoy whatever you decide to choose. Cheers.

<b>"These are my thoughts, your mileage may vary."

 

[hatimh]

To be honest I didn't understand

"Truth is that if it wont run at higher speeds, you dont loose much by choosing lower speeds. You can set the mem bus to 166/333 speeds, and have to go to about 201 to get the same perf as 200/400 with the 210 oc."

-----------------------------------
The bigger I am, the harder they fall.

 

[pat]

What surprise me is how fast the 753 3400+ is! A computer based on this chip with a good video card could well last long enough before the need to upgrade happen again in your life.
And dont forget that with the mobile, you'll nee to buy a HSF, which come standard on the A64... This increase the price.

So, by going the Barton road, you'll have to buy a chip and a HSF, which will make it to cost almost as much as an A64 and you'll end up with an old chip that have to be overclocked to hold is own (which it cannot really do) against newer A64 and risk stability issue and longetivity loss instead of getting a fast and cool chip right off the box that will last long enough before the need tu upgrade againé Oh, and the mobile is warranty only 3 month(maybe less too, I dont remember) while A64 are warranty 3 years...

So depending on my budget, the XP is a dead end that will make me spend more for less cpu value, even if it is cheaper.

Unless you want to play the overclocking game, then the XP definitively are to be avoided in new system now.

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!

 

[pat]

I dont said being a guinea pig for socket 939. 939 is as robust as 754, only slower for comparative chip. PCIe is what I'll avoid right now.

the 3000+ 939 may cost the same as the 3000+ 754, but to get the same performance than the 754 3000+, you'll need the 3200+ 939 which cost more. Unless you overclock the 3000+ 939...

So, my point is, if you want a fast system NOW, not for the future, get a socket 754 with nforce3 mobo and get a fast AGP video card. see, 754 board can be bought for less than 939, which often come with tons of RAID capability which is not every pople need, firewire which is usefull only fo DV and some external device, ... So, just getting a plain, fast board with only the feature you need, a fast CPU and a fast video card is the best option for a gaming system.

When sound cards, sata adapter card, network card, modem card, ... will start to appears as PCIe device, then I will consider to switch, but for now, only to have a video card, welll, that doesnt worth it to pay more for the board as there is more choice of videocard in AGP style.

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!

 

[funkdog]

We'd have to see his budget also, something he didn't mention. Valid point you made too. Only reason I would go the a64 route would be the imporved memory bandwith... but I would think an xp with a 260fsb would be fairly close to a 200fsb 64.

<b>"These are my thoughts, your mileage may vary."

 

[endyen]

An xp, with a 260/520 fsb? Do you know smeone who has cranked one that high?

 

[funkdog]

I'll dig up some sights.. but have seen posts on other forums with 250+fsb on DFI lanparty boards.

<b>"These are my thoughts, your mileage may vary."

 

[funkdog]

Here's a long thread on the progression of fsb overclocks over the past 1 year with the mobile xp. As the memory has gotten faster and better, the fsb on the NF7s and the DFI Lanparty ultra boards have gotten alot better.

<A HREF="http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=91414&page=1&pp=20" target="_new">http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=91414&page=1&pp=20</A>

<b>"These are my thoughts, your mileage may vary."

 

[endyen]

Nice thread, but those guys are "extreme" in thier OCing. I still didn't see anyone there over 240.

 

[funkdog]

most are still using pc3200 also... I'll dig up some more.

<b>"These are my thoughts, your mileage may vary."

 

[funkdog]

<A HREF="http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1527&page=6" target="_new">http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1527&page=6</A> review of the DFI board.

<b>"These are my thoughts, your mileage may vary."

 

[pauldh]

I think the Mobile XP clocked to 2.4ghz will score about the same as an A64-3000+ Winchester with the same GPU in 3dMark

For me it took 2.6 GHz with the mobile XP to almost = what the A64 3000+ did at stock speed in 3dmark2001se. Same Video card at stock speed and same dual channel ram just cpu/mobo difference.

Mobile XP 2500+ @ 2.6 GHz(13*200)/ Abit NF7 rev 2 18,649 3dmarks
A64 3000+ @ stock 1.8GHz / MSI K8N Neo2 platinum 18,688 3dmarks

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<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Pauldh on 01/10/05 03:27 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[hatimh]

deleted a double post, sorry!<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by hatimh on 01/10/05 05:41 PM.</EM></FONT></P>