Question What should I look for in a NAS set up

spikeysonic

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What should I look for in a NAS set up?

This is just intended as an alternative to a raid pair of Seagate Ironwolf 4TB hard drives.

Shoudl I still get the pair and put one as the storage drive in the workstation and the other in the Ns box?

What should I look for in a NAS box, good and bad brands and models.

What Should I avoid etc.

Not looking for more than two drives slots as not doing some big netweork business set up.

its only as was advised against the raid backup[ plan so not looking to the most expensive set up


looks likly I will be getting a motherboard with a 10gig lan if that helps
 

kanewolf

Titan
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What should I look for in a NAS set up?

This is just intended as an alternative to a raid pair of Seagate Ironwolf 4TB hard drives.

Shoudl I still get the pair and put one as the storage drive in the workstation and the other in the Ns box?

What should I look for in a NAS box, good and bad brands and models.

What Should I avoid etc.

Not looking for more than two drives slots as not doing some big netweork business set up.

its only as was advised against the raid backup[ plan so not looking to the most expensive set up
There are three BIG names in home/Small Business NAS -- Synology, QNAP and Thecus. Asustor is a fourth possibility.
They ALL have two drive units. Even then they have different levels of two drive units. For example, do you have a windows domain that you want the NAS to understand for logins? Would you even need 10GE? Some have a separate slot for an SSD for caching.
Is this NAS being used for anything besides Windows file systems? For example a DLNA media server?
You will have to look at the four manufacturer's websites. They have options to "test drive" their software. Take advantage of that. The interface might make the choice obvious.
 

kanewolf

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Those are probably fine.
BUT, if the OP needs Windows domain integration, a DS718 won't support that. You need a plus "+" Synology model to have Windows domain integration. We haven't been provided enough background to make INFORMED recommendations.
 
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spikeysonic

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There are three BIG names in home/Small Business NAS -- Synology, QNAP and Thecus. Asustor is a fourth possibility.
They ALL have two drive units. Even then they have different levels of two drive units. For example, do you have a windows domain that you want the NAS to understand for logins? Would you even need 10GE? Some have a separate slot for an SSD for caching.
Is this NAS being used for anything besides Windows file systems? For example a DLNA media server?
You will have to look at the four manufacturer's websites. They have options to "test drive" their software. Take advantage of that. The interface might make the choice obvious.



Nothing special.../ just looking for a hard drive back up as have had hard drive failure before whihc really f*ed my life up so want to avoid that.... a mix of general back up copy of my hard drive, a image of the operating software drive and some sort of incremental abck up... thinking 4tb should do it.

Basically a better alternative to in workstation raid


With 2 drive bays do they have some sort of hardware raid so back themselves up but better than a motherboard raid?
 

spikeysonic

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There are three BIG names in home/Small Business NAS -- Synology, QNAP and Thecus. Asustor is a fourth possibility.
They ALL have two drive units. Even then they have different levels of two drive units. For example, do you have a windows domain that you want the NAS to understand for logins? Would you even need 10GE? Some have a separate slot for an SSD for caching.
Is this NAS being used for anything besides Windows file systems? For example a DLNA media server?
You will have to look at the four manufacturer's websites. They have options to "test drive" their software. Take advantage of that. The interface might make the choice obvious.


A pair of 4th seagate ironwolf hard drives at 7200rpm was going to set me back £300 trying to keep the cost close to that as the hole system will be over £4000 and trying not to add too much
 

spikeysonic

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I notice you have a MSI motherboard, How has it been as I have been trying to decide between either a Threadripper 3 TRX40 system with choice between

  • MSI trx40 Creator
  • ASUS TRX40 Zeneth Extreme II

or a Ryzen 3950x system with

  • MSI PRESTIGE X570 CREATION,
  • ASUS AMD Ryzen X570 Pro WS X570-ACE AM4 PCIe 4.0 ATX
  • Those are probably fine.
    BUT, if the OP needs Windows domain integration, a DS718 won't support that. You need a plus "+" Synology model to have Windows domain integration. We haven't been provided enough background to make INFORMED recommendations.
Any advice there? is MSI as good as ASUS as rthew custom computer suppliers are only pushing ASUS
 
I notice you have a MSI motherboard, How has it been as I have been trying to decide between either a Threadripper 3 TRX40 system with choice between

  • MSI trx40 Creator
  • ASUS TRX40 Zeneth Extreme II
or a Ryzen 3950x system with

  • MSI PRESTIGE X570 CREATION,
  • ASUS AMD Ryzen X570 Pro WS X570-ACE AM4 PCIe 4.0 ATX
Any advice there? is MSI as good as ASUS as rthew custom computer suppliers are only pushing ASUS

I don't have an MSI motherboard, it's an ASRock board. I have an MSI graphics card - but I will send you a private message with my answer since this thread is not talking about motherboards.
 

spikeysonic

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Those are probably fine.
BUT, if the OP needs Windows domain integration, a DS718 won't support that. You need a plus "+" Synology model to have Windows domain integration. We haven't been provided enough background to make INFORMED recommendations.



Basically its this simple... I was looking to get a system built that most likley would be

  • 1x Bullguard Internet Security - Free 90 Day Licence
  • 1x Fractal Design Define R6 Case - White Tempered Glass
  • 1x Asus ROG Zenith II Extreme TRX40 Motherboard

  • 1x Enermax LiqTech II TR4 360 RGB CPU Water Cooler - 360mm
    Was advised to swap this for a CoolerMaster Master Liquid ML 360 RGB TR4 Edition Due to lots of bad reviews listing failure, clogging, blockages in the Eermax system despite it having the best contact plate for fitting a Threadripper


  • 1x AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3960X CPU 24 Cores / 48 Threads 3.8 - 4.5GHz
  • 2x 32GB Corsair Vengeance LPX Black DDR4 3200MHz AMD Ryzen Tuned Memory (2 x 16GB Sticks)
  • 1x NVIDIA Quadro RTX 4000 8GB Graphics Card
  • 1x 1TB Seagate Firecuda 520 M.2 PCIe Gen 4 Solid State Drive (Or Corsair Force MP600)

  • 2x Seagate 4TB IronWolf Pro 7200RPM NAS Hard Disk in a RAID 1 array

  • 1x 24x DVD-RW Drive
  • 1x Corsair HX1000 80 PLUS Platinum 1000W PSU
  • 1x Windows 10 Pro for High End 64-bit
I was strongly advised to swap out the Raid Pair of Ironwolf Drives for a NAS system... the above is going to clean me out at around £4400 so dont have much more at all. So looking for some home based system more secure than a raid 1 pair that does nto cost much more that has similar transfer speeds. I dont know if having 2 hard drives in the NAS that can be Raid 1 paired more efficiently than off a mother board software Raid so nothign complex and expensive just s simply back up to my workstation build...


would it be an idea to put one of the hard drives in the workstation and put the other in the NAS as an alternative to a usb connected external hard drive that could fail with one little knock as has happened in the past more than once.? If a second drive of put in the naz (so 3 hard drives inc the one in the PC would they back each other up in the nas?


Dont know about any domain... would I need to set one up if so how? At present its just the virgin router to conect my and any other laptops, phones the TV and a printer
 

kanewolf

Titan
Moderator
Basically its this simple... I was looking to get a system built that most likley would be

  • 1x Bullguard Internet Security - Free 90 Day Licence
  • 1x Fractal Design Define R6 Case - White Tempered Glass
  • 1x Asus ROG Zenith II Extreme TRX40 Motherboard

  • 1x Enermax LiqTech II TR4 360 RGB CPU Water Cooler - 360mm
    Was advised to swap this for a CoolerMaster Master Liquid ML 360 RGB TR4 Edition Due to lots of bad reviews listing failure, clogging, blockages in the Eermax system despite it having the best contact plate for fitting a Threadripper


  • 1x AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3960X CPU 24 Cores / 48 Threads 3.8 - 4.5GHz
  • 2x 32GB Corsair Vengeance LPX Black DDR4 3200MHz AMD Ryzen Tuned Memory (2 x 16GB Sticks)
  • 1x NVIDIA Quadro RTX 4000 8GB Graphics Card
  • 1x 1TB Seagate Firecuda 520 M.2 PCIe Gen 4 Solid State Drive (Or Corsair Force MP600)

  • 2x Seagate 4TB IronWolf Pro 7200RPM NAS Hard Disk in a RAID 1 array

  • 1x 24x DVD-RW Drive
  • 1x Corsair HX1000 80 PLUS Platinum 1000W PSU
  • 1x Windows 10 Pro for High End 64-bit
I was strongly advised to swap out the Raid Pair of Ironwolf Drives for a NAS system... the above is going to clean me out at around £4400 so dont have much more at all. So looking for some home based system more secure than a raid 1 pair that does nto cost much more that has similar transfer speeds. I dont know if having 2 hard drives in the NAS that can be Raid 1 paired more efficiently than off a mother board software Raid so nothign complex and expensive just s simply back up to my workstation build...


would it be an idea to put one of the hard drives in the workstation and put the other in the NAS as an alternative to a usb connected external hard drive that could fail with one little knock as has happened in the past more than once.? If a second drive of put in the naz (so 3 hard drives inc the one in the PC would they back each other up in the nas?


Dont know about any domain... would I need to set one up if so how? At present its just the virgin router to conect my and any other laptops, phones the TV and a printer
This is totally unrelated to your NAS thread. Please keep this to a single topic if you want specific answers. Start a new thread for a threadripper build.
 

spikeysonic

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Asustor is the lowest cost of the four manufactures usually. What is your preferred seller ?
No idea on seller as all new to me hence asking you guys. I just see .. not another addition cost for this custom build I have been tryign to work out for over a month but do very much want some sort of back up as been royalty F*ed due to failed drives in the past so a backup was at the top of the wish list.

Was pallning for a simple raid one and possibly internet based backup, But if the raid one according to many is a very back idea need ot look at alternative like a NSt system but trying to add too much to the already mega expensive build


Thanks for all the help so far guys, appreciate it
 

spikeysonic

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This is totally unrelated to your NAS thread. Please keep this to a single topic if you want specific answers. Start a new thread for a threadripper build.


I added the rest of the build as Kaewolf I think it was you who was asking for more background info.
We haven't been provided enough background to make INFORMED recommendations.

were saying they could not help much as did not know what I was trying to do build and use wise... thought it would be relevant for you guys to know so could advise better
 

spikeysonic

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This is totally unrelated to your NAS thread. Please keep this to a single topic if you want specific answers. Start a new thread for a threadripper build.
I don't have an MSI motherboard, it's an ASRock board. I have an MSI graphics card - but I will send you a private message with my answer since this thread is not talking about motherboards.


Opps bad read on my part there got the two mixed up
 

jon96789

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If you buy a NAS, buy a six or eight bay unit. It's more economical in the long run. If you use a four bay NAS, one drive will used as a redundancy check so you effectively only have three drives for storage, so 25% is lost. Also, if you run out of space, you have to replace all the drives for larger ones.

If you have a six bay NAS in RAID 5, one drive for redundancy means only 16.7% of the storage is lost for redundancy. Also, you only need three drives for RAID 5. So you can get three 4TB or 6TB drives for a reasonable cost and add more drives as needed. A six bay NAS with 4TB drives will give you 20TB capacity, whereas a four-bay NAS only gives you 12 TB space before you have to replace all the drives. Sure, you could opt for higher capacity drives in the first place, but you will find that they cost a lot more than smaller drives.
 

USAFRet

Titan
Moderator
Sure, you could opt for higher capacity drives in the first place, but you will find that they cost a lot more than smaller drives.
8TB drives currently go for under $150 USD.
Additionally, the current NAS boxes can be added to and merged to present as one space.

My current NAS setup:
4 bay QNAP TS-453a
1x 480GB SSD - system and small shared space. DataVol1
3x 8TB HDD, JBOD for 24TB space, DataVol2

TR-004 4 bay enclosure
4x 4TB Ironwolf, for 16TB space. DataVol3.

All directly accessible, and could be combined as a single volume.
 

jon96789

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Current 8TB NAS specific drives run about $200. While some desktop drives may work in a NAS, it is not recommended because of the error correction timing on a NAS drive is different from a desktop drive. This may lead the NAS to report errors but in reality, there is none.
 

popatim

Titan
Moderator
A NAS might be overkill for your situation. Something direct attached might be in order.

https://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-External-Lay-Flat-Docking-EC-DFFN/dp/B013WODZH0
Put the 1st 4tb in your pc.
Put the 2nd one in this.
Eject the drive but Turn it off instead of unplugging it when your done making your backup. it has a switch.
Disconnect it if you think your PC is infected, wipe your main drive and then connect & turn it on to reinstall your backup.
 

spikeysonic

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If you buy a NAS, buy a six or eight bay unit. It's more economical in the long run. If you use a four bay NAS, one drive will used as a redundancy check so you effectively only have three drives for storage, so 25% is lost. Also, if you run out of space, you have to replace all the drives for larger ones.

If you have a six bay NAS in RAID 5, one drive for redundancy means only 16.7% of the storage is lost for redundancy. Also, you only need three drives for RAID 5. So you can get three 4TB or 6TB drives for a reasonable cost and add more drives as needed. A six bay NAS with 4TB drives will give you 20TB capacity, whereas a four-bay NAS only gives you 12 TB space before you have to replace all the drives. Sure, you could opt for higher capacity drives in the first place, but you will find that they cost a lot more than smaller drives.


THAT WONT BE REMOTELY AFFORDABLE. Jon

I average less that a week's worth of film extra work per month, often less.

Average pay £85-£200 roughly $105-$200 But its no paid on the day, end of week, or month its totally random some time in the 3 months of so after a shoot averaging around 2 months. So the rest of the time im on benefits./ social

Stuck at home work folks, in 40s. No Pension, No mortgage, no home, no assets, and not enough of any proper experience to get what I would term a grown up job despite being i top classes in school. The idea of the system is to help me get that.

Its taken me the best part of 2 1/2 years (there was a pause 8 months a go where I was planning on getting a threat ripper 2 system but then it was cores or speed the forked out for a lot of courses only don't work, don't get paid.

Now have a total of savings of £5800. roughly $7600. Will need a buffer for if there is no much comming in this month and not been able to work over christmas so cant blow the lot, Need to hold back at least £1000 or $1300 I was planning on spending no more than $£4500. or $5900 ideally less

The systems Ive been listing would be £4400 with a just a raid 1 pair of 4t Iron world drives. Each one £150 or $200

When someone suggested a NAS drive unit to replace the raid 1

I was hoping for no more that £150 $200 on top, ideally a lot less.

Especially as still need to get a keyboard and MS office on top and also need to follow up the workstation with a pod cast kit, green screen and photo studio set up and obviously after a couple of month a DSLR camera

8tb hard drives like the iron wolf would be £268 or $350 each

Its just to help me get creative, learn some software to try and find some work and the £4400 or so was bearly afford that.

So that would be $2100 Over my budget limit just for 6 of those 4tb drives not including the NAS system on top plus over $1500 for the NAS rack. $3600


Not a snowballs hope in hell of affording anything remotely like that Im afraid.That would come to at least £2770 over 60% of my entire workstation budget without any NAS at all


As said was just looking for something a but more reliable than a raid 1 pair of 4tb drives in the work station to go with the 1tb ssd not some sort of office or business set up.

Thanks guys for helping but this is only to be a little workstation with enough omph to properly learn and use content creation software with some redundacy so I dont loose my work again.


its just I can no longer trust a usb lead connected external drive as several failed /bricked , one with most of my whole university work for 4 years on it and the other took out nearly all my creative work, I have to seek out srapos to rebuild it.
 

spikeysonic

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Jul 23, 2018
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A NAS might be overkill for your situation. Something direct attached might be in order.

https://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-External-Lay-Flat-Docking-EC-DFFN/dp/B013WODZH0
Put the 1st 4tb in your pc.
Put the 2nd one in this.
Eject the drive but Turn it off instead of unplugging it when your done making your backup. it has a switch.
Disconnect it if you think your PC is infected, wipe your main drive and then connect & turn it on to reinstall your backup.


Is that any more secure knock and jolt wise than a usb external drive.?It kinda looks like like a box with a fan thats hot plugable...

Looking for a secure back up, including avoiding anything that could brick the drive from a simple bump on a very messy deks and ideally some for of auto back up after the inital one
 

spikeysonic

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Some of the suggestions do look overkill as just looking for a 4tb drive thats is securely backed up incase it fails

Is that any more secure knock and jolt wise than a usb external drive.?It kinda looks like like a box with a fan thats hot plug able...

Looking for a secure back up, including avoiding anything that could brick the drive from a simple bump on a very messy desks and ideally some for of auto back up after the inital one