Question What the heck is wrong with microsoft?

[9to5tech]

so as you all know apple released their m1 mac's and they are great and bla bla bla, but they couldn't run windows via
bootcamp because of their architecture. Then craig federghi in a interview said that the m1 mac's are totaly capable of running windows via bootcamp but it is all upto microsoft because they have to release a version for m1 mac's which they can do. So why in the world isn't microsoft doing that? and would anything happend if they release a version for m1?

 

[baboo85]

I think they'll do it in the future (Windows 11 is coming), but WHY they would do it?
Even Apple with an old Macbook Air never released the right drivers for the Nvidia card on Windows 7 in bootcamp, so you've never been able to use the dedicated graphic card but only the intel one. Or it was seen as a generic Video Adapter. To make it work you needed custom drivers made from someone on internet that weren't stable at all, BSOD everytime.
Why would Apple ever had to do it? Apple sells Mac computer with OS X, why bothering to make it compatible with Windows?
And why would Microsoft ever have to make Windows compatible with Apple computers?

It's like having an iPhone able to install Android and viceversa. Or having Coca Cola bottling Asahi. Why would one do that, that's nonsense.

 

[9to5tech]

I think they'll do it in the future (Windows 11 is coming), but WHY they would do it?
Even Apple with an old Macbook Air never released the right drivers for the Nvidia card on Windows 7 in bootcamp, so you've never been able to use the dedicated graphic card but only the intel one. Or it was seen as a generic Video Adapter. To make it work you needed custom drivers made from someone on internet that weren't stable at all, BSOD everytime.
Why would Apple ever had to do it? Apple sells Mac computer with OS X, why bothering to make it compatible with Windows?
And why would Microsoft ever have to make Windows compatible with Apple computers?

It's like having an iPhone able to install Android and viceversa. Or having Coca Cola bottling Asahi. Why would one do that, that's nonsense.

then why does bootcamp exist ?

 

[bignastyid]

Likely the market(users with a M1 that want windows) isn't big enough yet to justify the cost of the the code rewrite.

 

[sizzling]

I’d also expect there could be issues with applications even if Windows itself runs. This is Apple’s ecosystem they are pushing on customers, why should Microsoft pick up any cost unless it is both financially and strategically beneficial.

 

[9to5tech]

I’d also expect there could be issues with applications even if Windows itself runs. This is Apple’s ecosystem they are pushing on customers, why should Microsoft pick up any cost unless it is both financially and strategically beneficial.

if microsoft releases windows for m1 then lot of people will buy it and they can make a lot of money right?
As there are millions on m1 mac users.

 

[punkncat]

Begging pardon.

If you wish to run Windows why buy Apple?

You realize they are competitors.....

 

[9to5tech]

Begging pardon.

If you wish to run Windows why buy Apple?

You realize they are competitors.....

Yes they are but many people(including me) want windows and macos because of the features, also the m1 mac is great in terms of hardware and mainly in gaming but it doesn't support games and many other stuff so why not? And I know they are competitors then why does bootcamp exist and why is Apple allowing you to do that?

 

[Wolfshadw]

Begging pardon.

If you wish to run Windows why buy Apple?

You realize they are competitors.....

Hypothetically speaking, if 80% of the tasks performed worked better with Apple software and the remaining 20% of the tasks I perform work with Windows compatible software, wouldn't it be reasonable to run both?

As for why Microsoft hasn't delivered a M1 compatible version, that's easy.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

It costs money to develop software. It costs even more to maintain it. If there isn't a large enough profit margin, it doesn't happen.

-Wolf sends

 

[sizzling]

if microsoft releases windows for m1 then lot of people will buy it and they can make a lot of money right?
As there are millions on m1 mac users.

Out of Microsoft’s Windows customer base I’d be stunned if legally bought licenses for bootcamp made up 0.1% of their total users. Development and maintenance costs for another version are going to be a very real consideration. I really would not be surprised if it would be a loss and not a profit, it is then a question of if it has a strategic benefit worth the cost. Again Apple created this situation, not Microsoft.

 

[9to5tech]

Out of Microsoft’s Windows customer base I’d be stunned if legally bought licenses for bootcamp made up 0.1% of their total users. Development and maintenance costs for another version are going to be a very real consideration. I really would not be surprised if it would be a loss and not a profit, it is then a question of if it has a strategic benefit worth the cost. Again Apple created this situation, not Microsoft.

Even though it costs money to develop the software for m1 they will get back more money than they invested because lot of people will buy it.

 

[sizzling]

Even though it costs money to develop the software for m1 they will get back more money than they invested because lot of people will buy it.

What do you have to back that up apart from a guess? How much would it cost to develop and then maintain annually? If you don’t know the answer you cannot even start to guess if they will make a profit. I am not saying they won’t make a profit from it but I can equally believe they would loose money and that’s the point, only Microsoft can estimate if this would be profitable. The costs of developing a new version and then providing support and updates I can imagine are very significant. It is also time and money they could put into other projects. In the big picture to Microsoft I really expect this is an insignificant % of their customer base. It might have a strategic benefit but then you need to know what their long term strategy is.

 

[9to5tech]

What do you have to back that up apart from a guess? How much would it cost to develop and then maintain annually? If you don’t know the answer you cannot even start to guess if they will make a profit. I am not saying they won’t make a profit from it but I can equally believe they would loose money and that’s the point, only Microsoft can estimate if this would be profitable. The costs of developing a new version and then providing support and updates I can imagine are very significant. It is also time and money they could put into other projects. In the big picture to Microsoft I really expect this is an insignificant % of their customer base. It might have a strategic benefit but then you need to know what their long term strategy is.

so you think they will release a vesrion for it?

 

[9to5tech]

So I kind of found a way to run windows on m1 mac without a vm and to "install it" on m1 like how we used to do it with bootcamp. I haven't tried this but I suggest you try it if you have an m1 mac. So to do tis you need a windows virtual machine(to create a bootable drive) you can also use a real windows machine, then you will need a usb flash drive which is atleast 16 gb or more. So the first thing you need to to is to download the windows 10 iso(the normal one) and then you also need to download the windows on arm insider preview vhdx file. So after you download both of this you need to download rufus to create a bootable usb. So plug in your drive and in rufus click on choose file and choose the windows 10 iso file and make a normal windows 10 bootable drive. So after you make a bootable drive go right click on your vhdx file and click on mount and you should see all of the files in that. Copy all of those vhdx files into the windows 10 bootable usb you created earlier. Now just plug in the usb to your m1 mac and shut down your mac. Then turn it back on while holding the option key and should see your usb so choose it and hopefully it works.
Note-Make sure to change the t2 chip security settings so you can boot from a external drive.
What to do if it doesn't boot?
So if you choose your usb and if it doesn't boot then all you have to do is to go back to the machine you used an use a iso editor(like anyburn) and go to the windows 10 iso file(right click and mount and not the vhdx file) then go to sources and you should see something called install.wim so you use your iso editor and rename it to install.esd and use that iso to make another bootable usb. So pls try this and tell me if this works.

 

[Deleted member 14196]

just run windows in a vm, or get a windows notebook or something

 

[sizzling]

so you think they will release a vesrion for it?

Can’t say, we don’t have any facts. All I am saying is I can see why they may not be in a position to release a version. I really think it would be at a loss but that’s my guess, for me I can see how it wouldn’t make money. Then it comes down to strategy, companies do take on projects that are loss making if it supports their wider strategy. Microsoft has no responsibility to do this in my opinion, Apple created the situation and it’s up to Microsoft to work out if it is in their interests to do something.

 

[gamerk316]

Even though it costs money to develop the software for m1 they will get back more money than they invested because lot of people will buy it.

That's not how software development works. You need to think in terms of long term support, future development, and so on.

Most people who purchase Apple products do so because it's Apple, not Microsoft. So as a conservative estimate, only 20% of the people who would purchase an Apple product would even consider doing this. Now factor in the cost of literally RE-WRITING AND RE-VALIDATION OFTHE CORE OS, cost of long-term developer support, marketing, apples cut of the pie, and so on.

I've done software cost estimates for massive projects before, and my expertise is telling me Apple could pay a hundred million to Microsoft to do this for them and Microsoft still wouldn't turn a profit at the end of the day. There's not nearly enough of a market to justify the cost expenditure.

 

[9to5tech]

That's not how software development works. You need to think in terms of long term support, future development, and so on.

Most people who purchase Apple products do so because it's Apple, not Microsoft. So as a conservative estimate, only 20% of the people who would purchase an Apple product would even consider doing this. Now factor in the cost of literally RE-WRITING AND RE-VALIDATION OFTHE CORE OS, cost of long-term developer support, marketing, apples cut of the pie, and so on.

I've done software cost estimates for massive projects before, and my expertise is telling me Apple could pay a hundred million to Microsoft to do this for them and Microsoft still wouldn't turn a profit at the end of the day. There's not nearly enough of a market to justify the cost expenditure.

then what about windows on arm insider preview?

 

[Rogue Leader]

then what about windows on arm insider preview?

You do realize Microsoft sells ARM based Surface tablets and laptops.

Again, you massively overestimate the userbase that would want to spend $99 to run Windows natively on their Mac. And that Apple would even allow it since the way they behave with how they are creating devices these days, you're almost just renting a device that you will toss out at the end of your rental period.

 

[9to5tech]

You do realize Microsoft sells ARM based Surface tablets and laptops.

Again, you massively overestimate the userbase that would want to spend $99 to run Windows natively on their Mac. And that Apple would even allow it since the way they behave with how they are creating devices these days, you're almost just renting a device that you will toss out at the end of your rental period.

Hey I made a thread about install windows 10 on m1 without vm so can you check that out?

 

[Rogue Leader]

Hey I made a thread about install windows 10 on m1 without vm so can you check that out?

It was merged here into this thread. I don't have an M1 Mac to try it on and to be honest you're nuts if you think someone is going to risk messing up their brand new Mac to test your theory. If you want to try it you do it.

 

[Phillip Corcoran]

And I know they are competitors then why does bootcamp exist and why is Apple allowing you to do that?

Why wouldn't they? If it'll help to persuade long-time Windows PC users to switch to a Mac it will boost Apple's profits even higher.