What to look for in a proper sound system?

[Urzu1000]

There is a TL;DR section at the bottom.

I want to set up a 'very' high quality sound system for a home theater setup as a present to my wife. Mainly for watching movies and listening to music. I don't know what to look for in sound equipment. There are a lot of inconsistencies that don't make a lot of sense to me, such as the difference between subwoofers VS woofers, etc. I'm more or less a newbie. I prioritize directional surround sound when choosing headsets for myself, as I'm a gamer, but a high-fidelity music system setup is different than simple surround sound. There are numerous articles on these subjects, but most of them are for normal people, and they list brands and types before solid specifications. I'm looking for advanced recommendations and tips, so I can get it right the first time. I need an enthusiast's advice for finding sound system components in detail. Can anyone give me a good place to start, or some advice on what specs to look for? Links are appreciated too, if there's good articles covering this which I missed.

TL;DR Section: Can anyone give me solid advice (from an enthusiast's perspective) on what to look for in specifications, and any additional advice or links that would benefit me?

Any tips for doing it on the cheap would be a bonus, but isn't required!

Thanks in advance!

 

[Wisecracker]

budget ?

Do you have a receiver ?

5.1 or 7.1 ?

What size TV ?

A sketch of your 'theater room' with panel and furniture locations would help a lot, too.

 

[ssddx]

as above... a good place to start is a budget.

perhaps you did not realize this, but "very high end" in home theater could very well mean $20,000 worth of sound equipment! my guess would be that since you said "on the cheap" you are thinking more along the lines of $300-500 though (which would technically be low to mid grade home theater equipment in the scheme of things).

if you are looking to go as cheap as possible yet still having good sound... take a look at the energy classic take 5.1 (or the cheaper clone ... monoprice 10565) paired up with a cheap receiver like the sony strdh-550. the pioneer vsx-523 is a decent cheap option as well. the set is good for small or medium sized rooms and offers good bang for the buck. better than pc speakers and most htib's you will find though of course for more money you can do better, but that is always the case.

you will want to be more specific about budget, size of room, layout of room, what kind of audio preferences you have, if you have room for large speakers and other such need-to-know information. if you are not in the usa you will also want to list that.

 

[Wisecracker]

... take a look at the energy classic take 5 ...

It is sometimes better to be lucky ... :lol:

Years ago the Energy Take '5-pack' went on sale on New Egg E-Blast for $120 or so when I was looking for some 'cheap' speakers. They were so good I bought 3 more sets (of which I sold one set and made more than 1/2 my money back!)

As a quick follow-up for the OP, you should probably search for a basic primer on home audio. That would help you more so than anything. The 'hub' of your system is the receiver, and it drives your *surround sound* which is simply different channels of audio creating an immersive sound environment.

There are all flavors and levels of audio these days and as noted 'high-end' can get ridiculously expensive. I think we also understand what you mean ... you get get a great deal of mileage and enjoyment from a relatively inexpensive system without breaking the bank.

The designations of 5.1, 7.1, 7.2 etc., simply refer to the number of channels in the audio. The "point-1" and "point-2" are the low-end frequency channel which carries the 'bass' or the 'sub-woofer' to which you refer. This is sometimes called the LFE for "Low Frequency Effects."

The *Sub* can pretty much be located anywhere. I've buried them in walls and even between floor joists. You simply 'fire' them in the general direction of the listening area. Your choice of the Sub is largely driven by individual preference. Guys typically like BOOMING BASS for explosions and effects -- Gals, not-so-much.

The "Center" channel is typically where the 'voices' come from and is centrally located at the center of your flat panel -- this is one of the channels on the left side of the 'point' in 5.1, 7.1, etc.

In 5.1, the other 4 channels are Front left-right and Rear left-right. With 7.1 you simply add Side left-right. This is your "Surround."

There are multiple set-ups possible depending upon what each of you want. If you really are a **GAMER** you ain't lived until you have experienced a decent surround sound environment in front of a 60-inch flat panel. I'm not a hard-core gamer at all, but felt an obligation to purchase a driving wheel and 'get to it' :lol:

 

[ssddx]

@wisecracker

i have my 5.1 home theater hooked up to a 40" tv for both consoles and pc. it really is quite nice. photos in signature if you care.

 

[ien2222]

To clarify about sub placement:

Yes, as you go lower and lower in frequency, it becomes more omnidirectional once you hit around 90-100Hz which means you have a harder time locating where the sound is coming from, giving rise to the idea that you can put a sub anywhere. However, given the long wavelengths, these frequencies are also severely affected by room acoustics making the sub the most critical speaker to work with when it comes to placement.

It's for this reason you see a lot of people complaining about boominess, one note wonders, or lack of integration with the rest of the speakers.

 

[ssddx]

agreed, subwoofer placement DOES certainly matter and will affect the bass response you get. ien you hit it right on the head there.

 

[ien2222]

Heh, I should probably clarify my clarification.

There are bad subs out there that are boomy or one note wonders or don't integrate well, but I've seen those reasons for a lot of bad reviews (aside from failure) for subs that are at least decent or better that do not have those problems and is simply the result of room acoustics not playing nicely.

 

[americanaudiophile]

Don't know where you are located but given the number of choices and issues based on the room layout visiting a good high end audio shop (not a big Best Buy type store) would give you an idea of what would work properly in your set up. They can also install and set it up for you.

 

[anonymousdude]

If you want to do home theater on the cheap, then I find looking for used or clearance items is the best way to go about it. My father just recently bought a new set of speakers that normally cost $1300 for I think $700 or so. The reason is because the speakers he bought were being discontinued by the manufacturer and therefore everyone had them on clearance. Anyone who is into audio or home theater can tell you that a good set of speakers lasts forever, same with an amplifier. So look around for deals like this from some of the brands people like to talk about in reviews. The best way to buy audio equipment is to go to a dedicated home theater/audio store, talk with the people there and most importantly listen to the products. Granted room conditions are not going to be the same, but at least you can get a sense of what the speakers you are buying sound like and usually the people working there will know based on room size and other factors the best configuration for you.

 

[Wisecracker]

Yamaha RX-V377 5.1 Channel AV Receiver : $182 before $30 rebate

Polk Audio Blackstone TL150 5-pack Home Audio Speakers: $260

Good speakers with minimum footprint. Work well in an average size room. You can typically find them on sale for less than $200.

Yamaha YST-FSW050BL2 Subwoofer: $115

Compact. Not 'boom-y' and over-whelming. Works well in an average size room.

You will need a sub-woofer cable. Less than $5 will handle it. Lamp cord (18-gauge) will work fine for your speaker wire. 250-feet is typically less than $45 at your local home center. Just be sure to maintain +/- polarity (some wire is actually marked or has a slight 'ridge' on the insulation of one conductor).

 

[Urzu1000]

So many responses! You guys have given me some great information to work with so far. To answer a few of the questions though: It will be setup in the basement with ~55" TV. My sense of a normal room size changes depending on where I'm at in the country, but I think it's around twice the size of a normal room. I'm looking to do a 7.1 setup.

I'm not necessarily looking to spend $20,000 on a sound system, but I 'do' want to know what advantages such a system would have over say, a $2,000 system. I'm trying to figure out the difference between specs on sound equipment, so I can recognize quality VS fluff while hunting.

I'm at work at the moment (just got back from vacation, so I'm catching up on paperwork), so once I get a moment, I'll make an extremely embarrassing drawing of the room in MS Paint.

Quick question though: Is it better to have speakers mounted high up on the wall facing downwards, or should they be flat around head level? A friend of mine always had them facing downwards at a 45 degree angle, but my co-workers disagree.

 

[Wisecracker]

At ear-level.

Depending upon your seating in the room, same positioning with the rear surrounds, equidistant as the fronts. Presumably, same placement with the Side surrounds.

The surround receiver will allow the 'tuning-in' of individual speakers for optimal effect at your favorite seating position.

 

[ien2222]

Hey,

So, 20k vs 2k: Basically the largest difference you'll notice is in the bass region, 20k allows for multiple subs to be used. Now, this isn't necessarily for detaching the roof from your house.

As you get into the lower frequencies starting around 100Hz but really gets apparent around 80Hz, the rooms acoustics start to really affect the sound. This is due to the Allison effect; where certain frequencies are increase and decreased depending on how far away the speaker is from a boundary such as walls. And also due to the boundary effect where things like walls affect all the frequencies giving you alternating louder and softer points as you move across the room.

Most likely you've been walking around in a room at some point and noticed that the bass playing sort of fades in and out and a particular couple of notes tend to be louder than the rest. These are a result of those two effects. Multiple subs (along with acoustical treatments) can be used to even that out so it is much more consistent.

Also, perhaps in your case, room size also matters in bass response. Loudness for highs and mids are dependent on listening distance, but for lows the total volume of a room comes into play. So, if you are playing on a setup in a small room, get everything balanced nicely and then placed that setup in a huge room, though the mids and highs will still sound about the same, you'll notice the bass region has become noticeably weaker.

This is where you'll see the largest improvement, though 20k does give you options of better equipment overall and give you the option to do acoustical treatments to the room (which would be the second largest improvement).

------

Let's see, speaker positioning: The front three speakers should be facing straight out and the tweeter height should be at the middle point of the listening positions or just a few inches higher. So if you have elevated seating, take the mid point of ear level for the bottom seats and elevated, if it's all one height, then ear level. If you have two rows of seating at the same level, you may want to elevate the tweeter level a couple of inches so the front row isn't blocking as much.

The side and rear speakers should be raised and angled down though. Have them a 1-2 feet above ear level and then angle them towards the middle of the listening area.

------

As for specs, it's tricky. For speakers, the two that will matter for you mostly are frequency response and sensitivity, unfortunately it doesn't tell you anything about the quality of sound it has. For that matter the FR and sensitivity might be rather inflated also depending on the brand.

For the electronics, you should be looking more at the features you what than worrying about sound quality.

But, with a budget in mind, it's something we can help with and give you options.

EDIT: Clarification, for electronics sound quality obviously matters, however I meant as far as looking at specs to determine it doesn't really matter that much. With modern AVR's the difference in sound quality between a $150 entry level and $2000 separates is not very noticeable as long as they are running within their specs. It's better to look at what you need it to do, rather than worrying about sound quality.

 

[ssddx]

generally i've always gone with "at ear level" and "speakers facing listener" for placement. the only oddities would be for dolby atmos and height speakers or if your room does not allow for at-ear-level for some particular reason. take a look at http://www.crutchfield.com/S-uLA70YdD9AK/learn/learningcenter/home/speaker_placement.html for some more information on odd room arrangements.

while specifications such as frequency response and sensitivity or amplifier %thd certainly are helpful to compare those really do not tell you how good the speaker sounds in practice. there really is no way to rely 100% on spec sheets when it comes to speakers - you really need to listen to them yourself or at the very least seek out and read opinions from others on what they think of the speakers. of course, our ears are all different so what i like you may not.

as price increase, quality does as well. the higher up the chain you go the less and less noticible improvement you get. the best bang for the buck i would say is under $2000 or so in terms of what you get for what you pay. also consider that the average person might not truly appreciate a super expensive sound system while an audiophile might not know how to live without one. let your ears be the judge. if you are in the usa and live near a best buy, hhgregg or other fine retailer of speakers you might want to give a listen to see what you like.

generally in super high end systems you are not just running a simple receiver setup but preamps and amps and a whole mess of other goodies. while certainly superior its also more complicated.

you might want to note what kind of sound you're looking for. bright and detailed? warm and mellow? earth shattering bass? etcetera. "horn" design tweeters are generally brighter sounding than dome style. if you want "bright, energetic and detailed" you might like klipsch for instance.

 

[Urzu1000]

I finally got that drawing up. Disclaimer: I haven't used MS Paint since high school, so it's pretty bad. The walls are a combination of cinder blocks and concrete. There is no sheet rock on the walls.

http://s4.postimg.org/3srp6agel/Layout.jpg

I'm looking to have loud and clear audio with a fair range of frequencies. I probably worded that badly as I'm unfamiliar with terminology, so I'll elaborate with an example.

I currently use a (true, not virtual) 7.1 gaming headset. It's very good (in my opinion) and I have an alright sound card to drive it (Xonar DX). Everything sounds really good. But whenever I use a different headset, or basic speakers, I can't help but notice that certain instrumental parts of songs are barely noticeable, or in some cases, non-existent. It naturally depends on the song, as some are affected more than others.

I'm looking for an external configuration that would allow a similar level of audio quality. I figure what works well for music should also perform well for movies and anime, so that's why I'm making this into a little home theater project.

 

[ien2222]

We'll need more information,

First is approximate budget, what you'd like to stay under and what you can go to if need be.

Also, dimensions of your room, not only of the listening area but any open spaces connected to your listening area (so that back portion where you do your work). Include ceiling height also. Along with that, is it carpeted? What are the walls made out of and do you have anything on them.

Any size limitations on the equipment?

This will give us a starting point to work with.

 

[Urzu1000]

@ien2222 I'll get the exact measurements when I get home and post it back here tomorrow. As for budget - the $2,000ish area seems to be looking good based on the replies I've gotten so far. As I said, the walls are cinder and concrete, and the floor is also concrete without carpet. The ceiling is wood, and is covered by sheet rock with around a six to eight inch gap between.

I do know that the ceiling is around 7 foot (from floor to sheet rock), and has some beams that drop down to 6 foot. I hit my head on those all the time, which is actually how I'm able to give a fairly accurate height for it.

As for size limitations for equipment, I don't have any specific requirements. As long as it fits through the front door without disassembling half the wall, I'm okay with it.

 

[ien2222]

Hey,

I forgot to ask, are you willing to build over time so you can increase the budget? So say around $2000 now and maybe another $500-$1000(or whatever amount you want to) six months - year down the road?

To be honest, $2000 is easy to spend. Heh, and no I'm not talking going and buying the most expensive kit you can get. But in your case, you have a lot of hard reflective surfaces going on. You'll want to get an area rug and acoustic panels for the walls (which is very easy to DIY). That there could be a couple hundred to do, plus you're looking at over $50 for cabling. So you're starting at about $1750 give or take.

A modest AVR will be $200-300, leaving around $1450-$1550 for speakers and a sub and for 7.1 that's not a lot. Though the ceiling isn't too high, you said it's probably about 2x the size of a normal room. So if we are looking at about 25' x 20' that gives you 3500 cubic feet of space and you're well into the large space for a sub. I'll probably be mentioning subs in the $700-$900 range, leaving very little for 7 speakers. Of course if you have some of the stuff already, or don't consider acoustic treatments as part of the budget you'll have more leftover.

But if you're room really is large, you can't get away from at starting with at least one capable sub if you really want a good neutral lower end response that's balanced with the mids and highs. With that in mind, you are looking at $700-$1300 for the sub and AVR alone. However, compromises can be made and if you'll willing to sacrifice some of the bottom end, you can cut down on the cost of the subs.

But buying over time is an option that a lot of people take; starting with a 2.1 or 3.1 setup and adding other speakers over time.

 

[ssddx]

agreed - size is an important factor here as this will determine what size speaker is most ideal.
for small to medium sized rooms - satelites work well, bookshelves are a bit strong but also work.
for medium to large sized rooms - bookshelves work well, floorstanders are a bit strong but also work.
for large to very large sized rooms - floorstanders work well

an example setup (what i personally use) for a small room about 14x13 in size is the $550 klipsch quintet satelite speaker kit paired with a $350 450w klipsch sub and a receiver. i overbought on the receiver a bit ($500) but i wanted the features it had. factor another $100-150 or so for clips and cables. for this size room satelites work well and are easy to place. if you have a larger room though you might want to look at larger speakers.

ien, i think he wants $2000 flat - for the complete system. i'm thinking a 5.1 system would be ideal and for that budget there are certainly some options out there to pursue. perhaps not top end stuff, but certainly better than htib levels. take for instance the klipsch synergy for $180/pair (x2) with a synergy center $250 with a klipsch 450w sub $350. that would run $960 + cost of receiver (figure $300-500) which still leaves room in budget for cables, wall treatments, rugs, etcetera. of course given the $2k budget he could perhaps do one better than that level of speakers (but i would not get excessive and start recommending $900 subs). at least that is my take on what was said so far.

there are of course other speaker brands which are worthwhile, i'm just noting some i'm familiar with.

 

[ien2222]

Never hurts to ask if there's wiggle room. Plus, you'd be surprised how many people change their mind regarding building over time...it's usually something they never really considered. The problem is, is that he already is comparing to a set of cans which are probably decent.

If his room is that big, 25' x 20' as the example I used above, a $700-$900 sub is not excessive and on other forums he'll be getting suggestions saying at least two is the way to go. I'm not going that far, though if he's willing to sacrifice really low end extension, I have a $360 sub in mind that he should get two of. But without knowing roughly the volume of the room, it's hard to make a suggestion.

As for size of the speaker, unless there is a size restriction in place, there isn't a good reason to go with lifestyle sats. Bookshelves are usually the best bet, even for larger rooms (though it depends on the brand and sales available) unless there's specific reasons why you'd want floorstanders.

For an AVR, you should get one that has the features you want and also the capability you need it to do. In your case ssddx if that's the min AVR that you could find with what you wanted it to do, you didn't overspend.

 

[ien2222]

Heh, I wonder if I scare him off.

I guess I should have made it clear that whatever budget is given we'll work within it as best as we can. On the other hand, we also want to give reasonable expectations. The nice, rather even response of good headphones can be expensive, especially for a bigger room when you are used to flat down to 20Hz.

That's not to say you can't get something that you'll be very happy with.

 

[Urzu1000]

Heh, I wonder if I scare him off.

I guess I should have made it clear that whatever budget is given we'll work within it as best as we can. On the other hand, we also want to give reasonable expectations. The nice, rather even response of good headphones can be expensive, especially for a bigger room when you are used to flat down to 20Hz.

That's not to say you can't get something that you'll be very happy with.

You certainly didn't scare me off haha. I've just been busy with work the past week. As for doing it over time, to an extent. This is meant to be a surprise for my wife, so it needs to be decent starting out. Some improvement later down the line is definitely an option, and if it runs a little over budget in the short term, that's okay too. From what I understand, a good set of equipment will last me a very long time, and I'm not opposed to buying in for the long-haul.

The room itself is probably 25 X 20, so your estimate was pretty dead on with that.

@ssddx, if you think that 5.1 would be a better choice, then I'm willing to give it a shot. These Klipsch recommendations seem pretty cool. You mentioned the cost of cables and rugs though. Would rugs be useful for the sound setup? Are the quality of the cables very important, or are they a case of "if it fits in both ends, you're good"?

 

[ien2222]

Ooooo. I approve of these kinds of gifts 😀

First the easy stuff:

For speaker wire, quality copper is all you need. It should read OFC (oxygen free copper) and you can get it many different places, don't get CCA (copper clad aluminum). Monoprice, Blue Jeans Cables, Amazon, Radio Shack, chances are your local hardware store has it too among other places, you shouldn't need to pay more than 50-70 cents per foot. Just make sure it's of sufficient gauge for the run;

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#wiretable

Basically take the ohm load your speaker presents, length of run and it gives you the minimum gauge you should use. It's usually cheapest just to get a bulk spool for everything, instead of one spool for the front and another for the surrounds. A lot of people just get 12 gauge regardless, I myself tend to get 14 gauge since I never have runs more than about 35 feet. Also, if you plan on running it through walls, make sure you get cable rated for it for insurance reasons.

Next, yes you'll want a good sized area rug. You have a lot of very hard surfaces, this will result in a lot of reflections and reverb which you don't want. It doesn't need to be a thick shag rug, just don't get the really super thin ones, be sure it covers a good portion of the floor between you and the speakers.

You'll want to have some things that help with reflections off the walls too. Curtains, upholstered panel decorations or actual acoustic panels. You don't need to cover the entire wall, a couple things up front behind your front speakers and then on the side walls about 1/4 to halfway to the sitting area. This is something you can wait on and play with after you have your system running. You can used some sheets or blankets and see if it's something worth doing and what works best, this is something I strongly urge you to do as unwanted reflections are one of the largest problems people have though they attribute it to their equipment instead.

As a side note, you don't want to get rid of too much reflections either since it'll make the room sound dead. Usually behind the speakers and first reflections are what you want to take care of if you don't plan on going all out. Bass traps are also a good thing to read up on and think about.

Now for the not so easy stuff (but more fun):

AVR, it should meet the features and capability you need. More info on what you want is needed before any recommendations can be made. Things to consider: Connectivity; number and types of input such as HDMI, component, composite, also if you want say bluetooth, ethernet/wi-fi for audio streaming or remote control. 5.1, 7.1, or greater. Power required, which depends on the speakers chosen. 3d or 4k passthrough? Atmos/dts:x? Room correction? Multiple zones? Pre-outs?

Not to worry, it's not as daunting as it seems. Budget will probably decide some of it, and some things are becoming more common so you'll get it regardless. Main thing is inputs that you need, if you need 3d and 4k capabilities and 5.1/7.1. For 7.1, you'll want a little bit of space between the listeners and the rear speakers..at least a foot or two.

http://www.howtogeek.com/137896/how-to-place-your-speakers-to-maximize-your-home-theater-experience/

This is a decent guide for ideal rooms and gives you something to work with when considering if you have the space for 7.1. Usually 25x20 is more than enough room but it appears you aren't working with the entire space due to the stairs(it'll help to know about how far the listening area is too).

Speakers and sub...even harder. Speakers are personal preference as for how it sounds. Given that subs handle just the lower frequencies, they don't have a particular "sound" to them so they'll be based more of performance than preference to it's timbre. Given that this is a gift, we'll probably want to start with 5.1 instead of something like 3.1. A majority of the content out there is 5.1 (if it's more than just stereo) so it's not a bad way to start and you can add rear speakers later if you desire to. I'll work around $1600 give or take for the setup leaving the rest for the AVR and accessories.

Probably the biggest decision is what you'd like out of your low frequencies. As I mentioned before, room size is a factor and the larger the room, the more sub you need to keep it balanced with the mids and highs. You have a large room, around the 2000 cubic feet mark is sort of where you go from looking at the $500-600 and under sub to over that amount and you're sitting around 3200-3500 cubic feet.

Not everyone cares or wants that low end extension. It's that really deep rumble that's usually more felt than heard where you are looking at under 25-30Hz. Some people say it's not right unless the neighbor's foundation is shaking during explosions. Hehe, and obviously there's a more balanced middle ground too.

If you really want that low end extension, you're looking at getting a sub in the $700-$900 range with the idea that you'll get another one further on down the road as a future upgrade. It's not going to shake your neighbors, but it's not going to feel lacking either. And who knows, maybe you'll find out that you're happy with just one capable sub. If you know you don't want that really low end then we can dial it back a bit and go with something that's a bit more efficient above 25Hz.

And this really depends on what's on sale too at the time of purchase. Speaking of which, when do you plan on buying?

I'll have to cut this short as I'm leaving in a few minutes, but your thoughts on this will give a better direction for me to find suggestions.

 

[which_doctor]

I just want to say that, if you aren't an audio or hi-fi nerd, chances are you won't hear the difference between 200 dollar speakers and 2000 dollar speakers.

My setup is very much a budget one. I use two different sets of 5.1 pc speakers with subs and it works brilliantly for my needs (and, a bit surprisingly, they have worked for 14 years!). I have speakers by the tv at ear level, and speakers above the sofa where you sit aand watch TV, about 2 meters from floor level. It's fake surround (they're all wired from the "front speaker" output in my soundcard), but sounds pretty nice in my mind.

Not saying you should copy my setup, but I do believe you might be convinced not to spend several thousand on audio equipment.