[SOLVED] What would you say to this person?

pr0t0typ3

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My not-tech-savvy friend asked me to help building him a new PC for streaming and gaming. I told him that he is just in time, Ryzen 3000 is coming. He thought about it and said he refuses to build a Ryzen-based PC and also refuses to wait for 2 weeks for the reviews, he wants to build and Intel-based system right now. Mind you, Intel prices still haven't changed, the 9900K is still 500+ usd, while its (at least) equivalent has been announced at 320 usd, not to mention the upgrade path and the option to step up later up to 16 cores, as opposed to buying into a platform which is a dead end already.

I tried everything but his decision is final, his reason being "I had Intel+Nvidia for the past 10+ years and it has been working fine."

I have 2 questions for you guys:

1: what is your message to this person?
2: how hard should I flame him in 3 weeks when Ryzen 3000 goes up for purchase and he will be sitting there with a brand new intel 9th gen system?

EDIT
Sorry, I was not clear on what is happening exactly. He is on a set budget and a 9900k does not fit in it, but a 3700x does, easily. Also, he is my friend so some flaming is always in order :D

EDIT 2
His budget is about $1500. Keep in mind that in our country, everything is about 10-15% more expensive than the international MSRP, sometimes more. For reference, a 9900k is currently $565 here.
 
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USAFRet

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  1. "The 9900k is a very capable CPU. Assuming we derive a compatible parts list, lets go!"
  2. You should flame him not at all. There is absolutely nothing wrong with buying an Intel system. Unless, of course, you're an AMD fanboy..:)
 
Just because a faster CPU comes out doesn't mean that the slower one is useless. On top of that the jury is still out on actual performance. I'd tell him to follow his heart, or bank account. If he has the money for the computer he wants then let him do it.

And, in 2 weeks if the Ryzen 3000 series is better for a better price, poke fun at him for being impatient. Any way that this comes out he is going to have a fine gaming PC.
 
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DMAN999

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All you can do is tell him the pros and cons of each system and let him decide.

Honestly if a High End Intel based system is what will make him happy I'd just build him the best Intel system his budget allows for.
 
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I personally would wait for ryzen 3000, however:

The I9 9900k is very powerful and the best gaming CPU to date. Ryzen 3000s launch won't make it any less powerful, It may just be perceived as a bad value.
Most software is Intel-optimized.
The 9900k has 16 threads and can stream well.

I wouldn't "flame" him at all. If he has the money, he will still have a great time with the 9900k.
 

pr0t0typ3

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  1. "The 9900k is a very capable CPU. Assuming we derive a compatible parts list, lets go!"
  2. You should flame him not at all. There is absolutely nothing wrong with buying an Intel system. Unless, of course, you're an AMD fanboy..:)
I Edited my OP, please see above he is on a set budget so money matters, and he cannot afford a 9900k, I think I can't even put a 9700k in his build. In our country (Hungary) the 9700k is $400 at the moment... I am not sure what to go with yet tho, I'll see what is best.

I'm not a fanboy, I've never had an AMD system myself and I don't care about brands at all. Only very low-IQ people do. I'm just an enthusiast who's spent 2+ hours every day for the past 10 years reading about tech, building/rebuilding my pc, following news, etc. Of course this post is semi-serious, I don't really care what is in the system I build for him. But I feel like at this point in time, when we are only 3 weeks away from a release which is the biggest shake-up on the mainstream CPU market since 2006 (Core2Quad q6600), anything he buys is a mistake, especially when a $500 value can most likely be had in 3 weeks for $320. He is planning to stream, so core count actually matters here.

Not to mention the fact that Intel will most likely have to seriously drop prices, unless they want to sell 0 mainstream CPUs after 07/07. If he pulls the trigger today, he won't benefit from that either. To be honest I posted this to get help in convincing him to wait 3 weeks :D Maybe I worded it wrong since most people are jumping in to protect him while I just want to save him from a stupid decision.
 

pr0t0typ3

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And personally, I would not buy a Ryzen 3000 right as it comes out in 3 weeks.
I prefer a 6 month waiting period on new stuff like this.

Let other people be the guinea pigs and find all the little initial faults.
This I disagree with. Manufacturing techniques in general are mature enough at this point that there is no need to be guinea pigs of anything. Mass failures or similar events are extremely unlikely.

EDIT - the only thing I can think of is driver/firmware issues, which is not a big deal because it's software and gets ironed out. If I get to spend 40% less on a newer manufacturing process, viable upgrade path and (most likely) at least the same performance, I would go with possible minor firmware issues which get ironed out 3 weeks later with a bios update.
 
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DMAN999

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If he can't afford a High End Intel system then show him some performance comparisons between the current Ryzen 5 and Ryzen 7 CPU based systems versus whatever Intel CPU he can afford.

I chose a Ryzen 5 2600 (which I overclock to 2600x performance level) over an Intel 8700 because they perform almost the same BUT the Ryzen build saved me about $400.

Also it would be helpful if you gave us his actual budget for this build.
 
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This I disagree with. Manufacturing techniques in general are mature enough at this point that there is no need to be guinea pigs of anything. Mass failures or similar events are extremely unlikely.
It could be that the chips don't perform as expected or have some unexpected flaw. This rare, but happens.

One time recently where guinea pigs of a new cpu got burned was with the major memory compatibility issues of first generation Ryzen where it was hard to get a system to boot even after trying many memory kits. It got worked out with AGESA updates and "Ryzen ready" ram kits, but it took awhile. This is EXTREMELY unlikely to happen with 3rd gen since the IMC is part of the 14nm IO die and the memory specification for 3d gen is even higher then previous generations, however, I wouldn't call USAFRet wrong since there is a lot of logic to that statement.

I feel a few weeks to a month is enough time.
 
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Wow, if he can't afford it then he shouldn't be considering it. He'd be better served by something like an 8700K if he HAS to go Intel... but even then the 2700X is a better choice.

What kind of build are we looking at here? Some specs might help. If he's looking at an RTX 2080 or something he'd probably be better dropping a tier or two on the GPU to fit in that 9700K. If he is on any kind of budget then he shouldn't even be looking at the 9900K.

So, yeah, a budget, an idea of any reusable components, and the current build you are looking at would all help. If he wants Intel there are options out there, but budget is going to be the most important thing.
 
If he cant afford Intel's high end, why is he even looking at it?

For the mid-range and low end ($60-250) AMD provides the best value. You will get the simmilar performance to a much more expensive Intel cpu, while having money left over for a beter GPU and or games.

If he NEEDS it now, he could buy into 2nd generation ryzen and upgrade later.
A 2700 or 2600x system will perform well and cost much less.
 

USAFRet

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I Edited my OP, please see above he is on a set budget so money matters, and he cannot afford a 9900k, I think I can't even put a 9700k in his build. In our country (Hungary) the 9700k is $400 at the moment... I am not sure what to go with yet tho, I'll see what is best.
You design him 2 systems that fits his actual budget, needs, and what is available in your location. One Intel, one AMD.

He decides.
 
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pr0t0typ3

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If he can't afford a High End Intel system then show him some performance comparisons between the current Ryzen 5 and Ryzen 7 CPU based systems versus whatever Intel CPU he can afford.

I chose a Ryzen 5 2600 (which I overclock to 2600x performance level) over an Intel 8700 because they perform almost the same BUT the Ryzen build saved me about $400.

Also it would be helpful if you gave us his actual budget for this build.
Thank you for the reply, edited my OP with his budget (about $1500) Again, I have yet to start actually piecing together his build. I just wanted to get help in convincing him to wait a bit more :D
 

pr0t0typ3

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Wow, if he can't afford it then he shouldn't be considering it. He'd be better served by something like an 8700K if he HAS to go Intel... but even then the 2700X is a better choice.

What kind of build are we looking at here? Some specs might help. If he's looking at an RTX 2080 or something he'd probably be better dropping a tier or two on the GPU to fit in that 9700K. If he is on any kind of budget then he shouldn't even be looking at the 9900K.

So, yeah, a budget, an idea of any reusable components, and the current build you are looking at would all help. If he wants Intel there are options out there, but budget is going to be the most important thing.
Thank you for the reply. I updated my OP with the budget ($1500) and the unfortunate premium we have to pay on everything here (at least 10-15% compared to international MSRP).

He is looking to get into streaming, so we need something with strong single core performance for gaming but also as many cores as possible. Given how 4c8t is basically almost irrelevant today just a few years after 8-core chips have hit the mainstream market, and the fact that he wants to stream, I would not go anywhere below 8 physical cores for his build. As always with a gaming PC, I'd put the best GPU in there which he can afford. If we look at 9900k vs 3700x, there is a $280 difference in price and that is the difference between a 2070 and a 2080. This is what I want to explain to him with the help of this thread.
 

pr0t0typ3

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You design him 2 systems that fits his actual budget, needs, and what is available in your location. One Intel, one AMD.

He decides.
This is what I was about to do, but he said he wouldn't wait. I opened this thread to show him it's not just my kink to talk about ryzen 3000 but there is actual stuff happening on the CPU market which is well worth a few weeks waiting for.
 
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This I disagree with. Manufacturing techniques in general are mature enough at this point that there is no need to be guinea pigs of anything. Mass failures or similar events are extremely unlikely.

EDIT - the only thing I can think of is driver/firmware issues, which is not a big deal because it's software and gets ironed out. If I get to spend 40% less on a newer manufacturing process, viable upgrade path and (most likely) at least the same performance, I would go with possible minor firmware issues which get ironed out 3 weeks later with a bios update.
Kind of like EVGA issuing a patch to stop their 1080 and 1070 from catching fire. But that was so 3 years ago and manufacturing techniques have gotten better......right. RTX 2080 TI FE issues guess not, RTX 2080 TI FE cards had issues that passed quality control.

Im with USAFRet,
From release date waited 9 months for my 2080 ti
From release date waited 6 month for my 8700k
waited almost a full year when i upgraded to my now old 4670k, 2 weeks later the 4690k dropped.

Last thing i bought on release date was my EVGA GTX 980 sc, that was just replace 3 days ago with the 2080 Ti
 

DMAN999

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For $1500 dollars you should easily be able to put together a Very good Ryzen based system.
I'd look at a 2700x (so he won't have to OC it) with a GTX 2070 on a good X470 MB with 16 GB of RAM.
Throw in a good 500 GB SSD for the OS and he would have a GREAT performer for gaming and streaming.
Even with my R5 2600 rig (see my signature for full specs) I get anywhere from 85 to 120+ fps in current single player games at 1080p (60 Hz) and frequently stream to 2 different 1080p TV's with PLEX while I'm gaming.
And if you wait a month or so you may get a better price on a Ryzen 2600x or 2700x.
 
...and the fact that he wants to stream, I would not go anywhere below 8 physical cores for his build.
I wouldn't worry too much about this. A 6 core/12 thread system has enough resources to stream pretty well. On top of that you can use NVidia's built in NVENC hardware to encode streams for little to no performance loss. So even something like a i5 9600K or an i7 8700K with an RTX 2070 or 2080 would make for a great gaming and streaming system.


PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel - Core i5-9600K 3.7 GHz 6-Core Processor ($224.99 @ Walmart)
CPU Cooler: be quiet! - Dark Rock 4 CPU Cooler ($74.90 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock - Z390 Phantom Gaming 4 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($99.99 @ Newegg Business)
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($69.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Intel - 660p Series 512 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($59.89 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Seagate - Barracuda 2 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($59.89 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce RTX 2070 8 GB Black Video Card ($479.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Fractal Design - Meshify C ATX Mid Tower Case ($84.85 @ Walmart)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - FOCUS Plus Platinum 650 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($98.32 @ B&H)
Total: $1252.81
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-06-17 10:56 EDT-0400


This would be good to go for any game and using the NVENC encoding you'll get all the frames. Just add a few fans to the case and it'll be good. I wouldn't go for the over priced i7 or i9 CPUs... not in this price range. If you wanted to put a 2080 in there it'd be right at budget. Better to save the money.
 
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justin.m.beauvais,
He is in Hungary so sadly he won't get the same pricing we get here in the US.
That is true. Also part of the reason I went super conservative on pricing.

Unfortunately PC Part Picker's closest geographic region is Germany... which prices could be close... I just don't know how the EU works in regards to component cost difference between member countries.
 

pr0t0typ3

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@justin.m.beauvais, many thanks for the build! The problem is, I just looked at the 9600k and the cheapest we can get it here is currently $290... I should mention that on top of the 10-15% premium, we rarely if ever get deals similar to what folks enjoy in the US, like $229 for a 9600k. I guess our country is too small for that? Not sure.


Kind of like EVGA issuing a patch to stop their 1080 and 1070 from catching fire. But that was so 3 years ago and manufacturing techniques have gotten better......right.
I never said @USAFRet was wrong! Nor do I think he is, just more cautious with his purchasing decisions than me, which I absolutely respect. I am generally less cautious with my stuff, probably because all components I have are tortured to the max and then some, yet nothing has ever died on me (other than due to water damage). If I was affected by any of the issues you listed, maybe I would change.

I will say however that manufacturing IS significantly more mature than it used to be. I of course heard about all the issues you listed... in the news. As a matter of fact, generally speaking failure rates are dropping across the industry, which is a natural consequence of scale and a more mature industry.

Fun anecdote: 13 years ago, 4 of my close buddies had components actually spark/burn out in their system, within a single year. One of them RMA'd 3 nvidia GPUs within that same year and all 3 just died. It was a common occurrence for stuff to fail, while the issues you listed are confirmed to have had limited impact, especially compared to the 2000s. We just hear about it more because of the internet and the size of our community. Do you personally know anyone who was affected by those issues? Were you personally affected? Statistically speaking, probably not.

Sorry, I digress.

Guys, am I in the wrong here? Am I over-hyped for Zen 2? Are the arguments about upgrade path, due to both socket and higher core-count parts on the product line invalid? Do you really think it makes sense to build with Intel at this moment in time? I made this thread to poke fun of my friend and to convince him that brand loyalty is bs and price/performance is king. I was under the impression that the industry is in agreement that zen2 seriously destroys Intel's current line-up. People are discussing how deep s**t Intel is in all over the place. And until this sentence, I was really careful not to base anything I say on rumors/leaks, but I will say this: Ryzen 3000 appears to spank Intel in single core AND multi-threaded performance, at a vastly lower cost and based on TDP numbers (to be taken with a grain of salt of course), better efficiency, as well. Am I missing something here? I'm at a loss because it seems like people here think "sure, go with Intel, whatever" while based on what I've gathered so far, Zen 2 is a BFD. Is it not?
 

USAFRet

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The manufacturing process has matured. The code behind it...not so much.

We're still seeing problems that developed from decisions made years ago...Spectre, Meltdown, and the follow on issues.
Granted, those would not have been found with a 6 month waiting period, but embedded code faults none the less.

Years ago, with the Floating Point error in the Pentium CPU.
Later, speed issues in the original Samsung 840 EVO SSD's. Fixed later with a firmware update.

No matter how much testing is done, some issues aren't found until the thing is in the wild and on 100,000 different systems and use cases.


Ryzen 3000? Wait until it is actually out in the wild, and then see.
 

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