Whats best way to back up a system?

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Guest

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Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

I want a means of backing up my whole system, applications, data, and
everything including the operating system to a separate hard drive. If my
hard disk dies I don't want to have to reload the operating system and all
its updates, reload all my software and their updates, recreate users, and
etc, etc, etc. This literally takes days. I want to be able to put in a new
hard drive and completely recreate my entire system from my backup drive and
be back up and running in a couple hours.

Will the backup utility supplied with XP do this?




--
2dogs in Oregon USA
 
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

/2dogs/ said:

> I want a means of backing up my whole system, applications, data, and
> everything including the operating system to a separate hard drive. If my
> hard disk dies I don't want to have to reload the operating system and all
> its updates, reload all my software and their updates, recreate users, and
> etc, etc, etc. This literally takes days. I want to be able to put in a new
> hard drive and completely recreate my entire system from my backup drive and
> be back up and running in a couple hours.
>
> Will the backup utility supplied with XP do this?

No.

But an imaging utility will, provided that you keep current back ups. The
one I use here restores 3+ gigs in less than 4 minutes - every file, every
setting.

There are several good tools for this purpose. Check out...
http://terabyteunlimited.com (Image for Windows)
http://ghost.com
http://www.acronis.com/

--
For most XP answers and tweaks...
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_abc.htm
http://dougknox.com http://aumha.org
http://support.microsoft.com
 
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

2dogs wrote:

> I want a means of backing up my whole system, applications, data, and
> everything including the operating system to a separate hard drive. If my
> hard disk dies I don't want to have to reload the operating system and all
> its updates, reload all my software and their updates, recreate users, and
> etc, etc, etc. This literally takes days. I want to be able to put in a new
> hard drive and completely recreate my entire system from my backup drive and
> be back up and running in a couple hours.
>
> Will the backup utility supplied with XP do this?

As dev said, use a disk imaging program. Store the images on external
media such as a USB/firewire external hard drive DVD or on another
networked PC. Restores can be done of the complete partition or
individual files and folders.

Programs that do this are Norton Ghost, Acronis True Image, and Terabyte
Unlimited's Image for Windows and BootitNG.


--
Rock
MS MVP Windows - Shell/User
 
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

When recreating the system on a new drive using an image utility is it
necessary to format, partition and install the operating system on the new
drive before restoring from the backup drive?


--
2dogs in Oregon USA


"dev" wrote:

>
> No.
>
> But an imaging utility will, provided that you keep current back ups. The
> one I use here restores 3+ gigs in less than 4 minutes - every file, every
> setting.
>
> There are several good tools for this purpose. Check out...
> http://terabyteunlimited.com (Image for Windows)
> http://ghost.com
> http://www.acronis.com/
>
> --
> For most XP answers and tweaks...
> http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_abc.htm
> http://dougknox.com http://aumha.org
> http://support.microsoft.com
>
 
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"2dogs" <2dogs@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:89FA10B8-8306-4BE1-8ED4-E732AC02CAC0@microsoft.com...
> When recreating the system on a new drive using an image utility is it
> necessary to format, partition and install the operating system on the new
> drive before restoring from the backup drive?

No.
 
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

However, the new drive better be in the same system or it won't work.

"Alpha" <none@none.net> wrote in message
news:11if9807j2ot391@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "2dogs" <2dogs@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:89FA10B8-8306-4BE1-8ED4-E732AC02CAC0@microsoft.com...
>> When recreating the system on a new drive using an image utility is it
>> necessary to format, partition and install the operating system on the
>> new
>> drive before restoring from the backup drive?
>
> No.
>
>
>
 
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Will the process you described also work if the image drive is not a
removable drive but is instead a second system hard drive used only for the
image?
--
2dogs in Oregon USA


"peterk" wrote:

> I use Acronis True Image.
> I connected my removable HD.
> Opened True Image and Imaged my C drive to the removable HD......True Image
> did the rest
> True Image lets you put a Start Up recovery manager in the boot
> process.This shows up on your screen before XP loads and tells you if you
> wish to start the Manager to push F?.When you do this True Image Starts and
> you can restore a saved image without being in XP.
> By Imaging my C drive to a removable HD I can and have removed my C drive
> and booted with the removable HD.It is an exact copy af the drive at that
> point in time.By saving Images of various Partitions onto another drive you
> can restore that partition to the point in time that you imaged it.Images
> will need to be updated when you have changes.
> I was worth what I paid for it.
> peterk
>
> --
> Never trust a computer you can't throw out the window. - Steve Wozniak
> "2dogs" <2dogs@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:89FA10B8-8306-4BE1-8ED4-E732AC02CAC0@microsoft.com...
> > When recreating the system on a new drive using an image utility is it
> > necessary to format, partition and install the operating system on the new
> > drive before restoring from the backup drive?
> >
> >
> > --
> > 2dogs in Oregon USA
> >
> >
> > "dev" wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> No.
> >>
> >> But an imaging utility will, provided that you keep current back ups.
> >> The
> >> one I use here restores 3+ gigs in less than 4 minutes - every file,
> >> every
> >> setting.
> >>
> >> There are several good tools for this purpose. Check out...
> >> http://terabyteunlimited.com (Image for Windows)
> >> http://ghost.com
> >> http://www.acronis.com/
> >>
> >> --
> >> For most XP answers and tweaks...
> >> http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_abc.htm
> >> http://dougknox.com http://aumha.org
> >> http://support.microsoft.com
> >>
>
>
>
 
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

2dogs wrote:
> I want a means of backing up my whole system, applications, data, and
> everything including the operating system to a separate hard drive. If my
> hard disk dies I don't want to have to reload the operating system and all
> its updates, reload all my software and their updates, recreate users, and
> etc, etc, etc. This literally takes days. I want to be able to put in a new
> hard drive and completely recreate my entire system from my backup drive and
> be back up and running in a couple hours.
>
> Will the backup utility supplied with XP do this?

Yup.

That's what I use. I do once a week fulls, daily differentials and I
keep 4 weeks' worth of backups.

I've had to restore from a backup after my system device failed. Worked
fine. I've also pulled individual files and folders out of backup files
when I've brainfarted and deleted the wrong tree.
 
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

please tell me more. so far averyone else has disagreed.

Were you able to install a new drive and completely restore the backup to it
without formatting, partitioning, or installing the operating system first?
--
2dogs in Oregon USA


"Z" wrote:

> 2dogs wrote:
> > I want a means of backing up my whole system, applications, data, and
> > everything including the operating system to a separate hard drive. If my
> > hard disk dies I don't want to have to reload the operating system and all
> > its updates, reload all my software and their updates, recreate users, and
> > etc, etc, etc. This literally takes days. I want to be able to put in a new
> > hard drive and completely recreate my entire system from my backup drive and
> > be back up and running in a couple hours.
> >
> > Will the backup utility supplied with XP do this?
>
> Yup.
>
> That's what I use. I do once a week fulls, daily differentials and I
> keep 4 weeks' worth of backups.
>
> I've had to restore from a backup after my system device failed. Worked
> fine. I've also pulled individual files and folders out of backup files
> when I've brainfarted and deleted the wrong tree.
>
>
 
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

2dogs wrote:

> please tell me more. so far averyone else has disagreed.
>
> Were you able to install a new drive and completely restore the backup to it
> without formatting, partitioning, or installing the operating system first?

Yes that can be done.

--
Rock
MS MVP Windows - Shell/User
 
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

2dogs wrote:
> please tell me more. so far averyone else has disagreed.
>
> Were you able to install a new drive and completely restore the backup to it
> without formatting, partitioning, or installing the operating system first?

Ahh, sorry, I missed that. To restore from a Windows backup you must
first format and install the O/S on the new drive (a bare installation
is all you need) then you can restore the backup over the top of that.
 
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

if you have a second hdd in the machine, you can ghost a bootable image to
that drive, all that needs to be done in the event of failure is to change
the jumper on the drive to become the master and boot 2 minute job, do this
on a regular basis myself

--
there are no problems just challenges


"Z" wrote:

> 2dogs wrote:
> > please tell me more. so far averyone else has disagreed.
> >
> > Were you able to install a new drive and completely restore the backup to it
> > without formatting, partitioning, or installing the operating system first?
>
> Ahh, sorry, I missed that. To restore from a Windows backup you must
> first format and install the O/S on the new drive (a bare installation
> is all you need) then you can restore the backup over the top of that.
>
 
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

sorry this can also be done with removable drives, again just change to
master insert drive in the pc and boot again 2 minute job, no need to install
windows format or anything else ghost takes care of the full process
been a lifesaver for me on a number of occasions


--
there are no problems just challenges


"Z" wrote:

> 2dogs wrote:
> > please tell me more. so far averyone else has disagreed.
> >
> > Were you able to install a new drive and completely restore the backup to it
> > without formatting, partitioning, or installing the operating system first?
>
> Ahh, sorry, I missed that. To restore from a Windows backup you must
> first format and install the O/S on the new drive (a bare installation
> is all you need) then you can restore the backup over the top of that.
>
 
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

steve.a wrote:
> if you have a second hdd in the machine, you can ghost a bootable image to
> that drive, all that needs to be done in the event of failure is to change
> the jumper on the drive to become the master and boot 2 minute job, do this
> on a regular basis myself
>

That method allows you to save exactly one image. Useful if the hard
drive failed, not useful if you need to go back to 5 days ago. And not
useful if you need just a single file from 2 days ago.
 
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Windows backup will NOT work to meet all your demands.

The most obvious solution is a RAID 0 configuration which I doubt you have
RAID on your PC. So, will not continue on that.

CLONING
This copies the partition, filesystem, and all the files to another hard
drive. There's no formatting or installing to do afterwards. It will act
just like your current hard drive if made active for booting. The SID
should be identical though. Remove the clone after the cloning operation.
Do not leave connected to your PC.

IMAGING
This makes a copy of your partition, your filesystem, and all your files
with the exception of the paging file and hibernation settings file. This
is compressed into one or more files. It cannot be used for the original
XP. Rather, the file or files must be restored using another hard drive as
the target. After completion of restoration, the target hard drive will be
a duplicate of the original hard drive.

Many imaging type softwares also can perform cloning as an alternative.
This is usually a selection called copying a drive.

The target hard drive (where the copy is made to) should be the same size or
larger for cloning.

The target hard drive or partition for imaging may be smaller than the
original. This is due to lack of copying the paging and hibernation
settings files, compression, and only copies data not empty space. C:
cannot be saved to C:, must be an alternate partition, hard drive, or DVD/CD
writer. The two files mentioned are recreated by XP upon booting XP.

"2dogs" <2dogs@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:7AD7E0B3-DCFB-4D3F-8C66-28900F2E8C50@microsoft.com...
> I want a means of backing up my whole system, applications, data, and
> everything including the operating system to a separate hard drive. If my
> hard disk dies I don't want to have to reload the operating system and all
> its updates, reload all my software and their updates, recreate users, and
> etc, etc, etc. This literally takes days. I want to be able to put in a
new
> hard drive and completely recreate my entire system from my backup drive
and
> be back up and running in a couple hours.
>
> Will the backup utility supplied with XP do this?
>
>
>
>
> --
> 2dogs in Oregon USA
 
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Alpha" <none@none.net> wrote in message
news:11if9ap3qf55gb0@corp.supernews.com...
> However, the new drive better be in the same system or it won't work.
>
Could you expand on that statement please.
I have a PC with XP networked with a P.C. with 98Se and I use True Image to
copy the XP to the 98SE.
Are you saying it won't work unless the 98SE is changed to XP?
Blair
 
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Blair" <darrach@coille.com> wrote in message
news:%235F%23rwOuFHA.664@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>
> "Alpha" <none@none.net> wrote in message
> news:11if9ap3qf55gb0@corp.supernews.com...
>> However, the new drive better be in the same system or it won't work.
>>
> Could you expand on that statement please.
> I have a PC with XP networked with a P.C. with 98Se and I use True Image
> to
> copy the XP to the 98SE.
> Are you saying it won't work unless the 98SE is changed to XP?
> Blair
>
>

The images are complete backups, including system files and drivers. No,
you cannot copy XP to another computer...even XP if it is not identical in
every single way.
 
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"2dogs" <2dogs@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:B180D06F-416A-4139-B1EE-5F470C358127@microsoft.com...
> please tell me more. so far averyone else has disagreed.
>
> Were you able to install a new drive and completely restore the backup to
> it
> without formatting, partitioning, or installing the operating system
> first?
> --
> 2dogs in Oregon USA
>
>
> "Z" wrote:
>
>> 2dogs wrote:
>> > I want a means of backing up my whole system, applications, data, and
>> > everything including the operating system to a separate hard drive. If
>> > my
>> > hard disk dies I don't want to have to reload the operating system and
>> > all
>> > its updates, reload all my software and their updates, recreate users,
>> > and
>> > etc, etc, etc. This literally takes days. I want to be able to put in a
>> > new
>> > hard drive and completely recreate my entire system from my backup
>> > drive and
>> > be back up and running in a couple hours.
>> >
>> > Will the backup utility supplied with XP do this?
>>
>> Yup.
>>
>> That's what I use. I do once a week fulls, daily differentials and I
>> keep 4 weeks' worth of backups.
>>
>> I've had to restore from a backup after my system device failed. Worked
>> fine. I've also pulled individual files and folders out of backup files
>> when I've brainfarted and deleted the wrong tree.
>>
Before you restore/install anything the media/drive needs to be prepared
that is formatted. Partitioning can take place after you have restored
provided you have suitable software for the task (partition manger et al).
 
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Z" wrote:
>> if you have a second hdd in the machine, you can ghost
>> a bootable image to that drive, all that needs to be done
>> in the event of failure is to change the jumper on the drive
>> to become the master and boot 2 minute job, do this
>> on a regular basis myself
>>
>
> That method allows you to save exactly one image. Useful
> if the hard drive failed, not useful if you need to go back to
> 5 days ago. And not useful if you need just a single file from
> 2 days ago.


1) Ghost and Casper XP (and a few other utilities) can make
a bootable image (i.e. a "clone") of a single partition and
put it among other partitions on another HD. If your OS-to-
be-archived is small enough and the destination HD is
large enough, you can put several clones on a single
backup HD. If you put enough entries in each clone's
boot.ini file (one entry for each partition on the backup HD),
any partition on the backup HD can act as the loader (i.e.
act as the "system" partition in Microsoft's terminology) to
load any of the other partitions.

All that is necessary to boot any one of the partitions is
to make one of the primary partitions "active", and that
partition will be the "system" partition, i.e. it will run the
loader and present the boot menu. To make the backup
HD take control for booting, you can remove or disconnect
the main HD, or you can simply readjust the HD boot order
in the BIOS to put the backup HD at the head of the boot order.

To backup 5 OSes on a single HD, you can have a maximum
of 3 partitions be Primary partitions - any one of which can
marked as the "active" partition that will do the loading - and
the 4th partition can be an Extended partition which can hold
several more clones, each clone selectable for loading by
the boot.ini file residing in one of the Primary partitions.

2) A simpler system would involve copying the main HD to one of
several backup HDs, each backup HD sitting in a removable
tray. For that operation, you can use not only Ghost or
Casper XP, but also True Image (which can only clone an
entire HD, not just a designated partition). The single partition
on the backup HD would always be the "active" partition, and
no knowledge of boot.ini syntax would be necessary.

To use a backup HD, just slide in the appropriate tray, remove
or disconnect the main HD, or readjust the BIOS's HD boot order
to put the backup HD at the head of the boot order, and restart
the computer.

3) To just copy a file from the backup HD, just connect it or slide
in its removable tray and boot up. The backup partition will
be visible to the running OS as just another Local Disk, and
you can drag 'n drop files between the partitions.

4) CAUTION: When starting up a clone for the 1st time, don't
let it see its "parent" OS, or it will forever be dependent on
the continued presence of its "parent". Once it has booted
and run for the 1st time independently, it can be allowed to
to see its "parent" OS with no problems.

Making the "parent" invisible can be done in several ways:
a) Simply disconnect or remove the source HD,
b) Cut the power to the source HD (works best if the 2 HDs
are on different IDE channels),
c) Use Partition Magic to "hide" the source partition
(done from a bootable floppy or an OS on a 3rd partition).

*TimDaniels*
 
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

In article <7AD7E0B3-DCFB-4D3F-8C66-28900F2E8C50@microsoft.com>,
2dogs@discussions.microsoft.com says...
> I want a means of backing up my whole system, applications, data, and
> everything including the operating system to a separate hard drive. If my
> hard disk dies I don't want to have to reload the operating system and all
> its updates, reload all my software and their updates, recreate users, and
> etc, etc, etc. This literally takes days. I want to be able to put in a new
> hard drive and completely recreate my entire system from my backup drive and
> be back up and running in a couple hours.
>
> Will the backup utility supplied with XP do this?

You want to make a GHOST Image of your entire drive to a file on a
external drive so that you have a PERFECT Image of the system at the
time of the image - you can then restore the image as needed, even
resizing drive partitions, and it will work perfectly.

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
 
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In article <89FA10B8-8306-4BE1-8ED4-E732AC02CAC0@microsoft.com>,
2dogs@discussions.microsoft.com says...
> When recreating the system on a new drive using an image utility is it
> necessary to format, partition and install the operating system on the new
> drive before restoring from the backup drive?

Not using Ghost (or most of the others) - the Image, including all disk
info (to make it bootable) is included in the Image Saved and in the
Image Restored - this would be a DISK IMAGE, not a partition image.

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
 
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"steve.a" wrote:
> sorry this can also be done with removable drives, again just change to
> master insert drive in the pc and boot again 2 minute job, no need to install
> windows format or anything else ghost takes care of the full process
> been a lifesaver for me on a number of occasions


What is done with the main drive? If it remains in the computer
and it and the removable HD were put on the same cable (i.e.
same IDE channel), the BIOS's default HD boot order would
select the main HD (the Master) for booting. If the main HD were
always jumpered as Slave to allow the removable HD to take over
as Master whenever it appeared, the main HD wouldn't boot when
the removable HD were present for the cloning. For the simple
slide-in-and-take-over to work, the main drive would have to be
on the 2nd IDE channel (as Master or Slave), and the removable
HD would have to be on the 1st IDE channel. That is because the
default HD boot order gives the 1st channel (ch. 0) precedence
over the 2nd channel (ch. 1).

If the 2 HDs are to be on the same channel at the same time,
the BIOS's HD boot order must be changed to put the appropriate
HD at the head of the boot order.

Of course, none of this has to be dealt with if the both the main HD
and the backup HD are in removable trays and insertable into 2
separate racks. Then, simply removing the main HD would pass
booting control to the backup HD.

*TimDaniels*
 
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

In article <cYNVe.12109$tc7.6357@fe03.lga>, Z@no.spam says...
> 2dogs wrote:
> > I want a means of backing up my whole system, applications, data, and
> > everything including the operating system to a separate hard drive. If my
> > hard disk dies I don't want to have to reload the operating system and all
> > its updates, reload all my software and their updates, recreate users, and
> > etc, etc, etc. This literally takes days. I want to be able to put in a new
> > hard drive and completely recreate my entire system from my backup drive and
> > be back up and running in a couple hours.
> >
> > Will the backup utility supplied with XP do this?
>
> Yup.
>
> That's what I use. I do once a week fulls, daily differentials and I
> keep 4 weeks' worth of backups.
>
> I've had to restore from a backup after my system device failed. Worked
> fine. I've also pulled individual files and folders out of backup files
> when I've brainfarted and deleted the wrong tree.

While NT Backup will work, it's no where near as simple as using Ghost
or other third party IMAGE programs.

In order to run NT Backup you have to be running the OS and have a
working copy of Windows running - now, if you don't have Windows in a
working order, you have to reinstall it, get your backups, restore them
properly over-top of the OS and then it will work.

With an Image, you boot from Diskette or CD, run the Image program,
select the Source File, select the Destination Drive, done.

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
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In article <#gYXpxOuFHA.3400@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl>, rock@mail.nospam.net
says...
> 2dogs wrote:
>
> > please tell me more. so far averyone else has disagreed.
> >
> > Were you able to install a new drive and completely restore the backup to it
> > without formatting, partitioning, or installing the operating system first?
>
> Yes that can be done.

On a single machine, without installing the OS, you can not run Windows
BACKUP to restore the backup.

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
 
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Leythos wrote:
> On a single machine, without installing the OS, you can not run Windows
> BACKUP to restore the backup.

A terrible oversight that I hope the Vista console corrects.