You of all people should know that AMD integrates the PCI-X bridge, since its done on the K8WE that YOU have...
http://www.tyan.sk/image/s2895_bd.png
I think what you interpreted was that the PCI-X is INSIDE the CPU, and that's not what I meant. I meant that the CPU goes directly to the bridge w/o Northbridge interference. I didn't meantion NUMA because you're obsessed with NUMA and you already mentioned it.
Lets just say we are both in aggrement, and differences in clear wording are causing issues: 8)
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AMD do not integrate the PCI-X bridges or tunnels in their processors (We both agree on this)
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http://www.nvidia.com/page/nforce_pro.html (nForce 2200 + 2050 chipset links)
- AMD most likely don't care what the high speed system I/O links are used for, so long as it gains them market share. "The bandwidth is there, use it for what you may and make us look good" is more accurate.
In this case (as per your image) the links just so happen to end up here:
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_739_9004,00.html
- The AMD-8000 series PCI-X tunnel
- I figure most people know what a PCI-X tunnel connects to
- (Also if others are reading this PCI-X is not PCIe / PCI Express)
The Tyan K8WE manual(s) makes this very clear: (I've listed them all):
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http://www.tyan.com/products/html/thunderk8we.html
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ftp://ftp.tyan.com/manuals/m_s2895_101.pdf
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http://www.tyan.com/support/html/manuals.html#other
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ftp://ftp.tyan.com/manuals/a_s2895_100.pdf
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ftp://ftp.tyan.com/manuals/m_s2895_101.exe
When you state and I quote your edited post:
"EDIT: You can find Opty 64 boards w/ a PCI-X Bridge integrated into the CPU (Like the one my friend has) and AMD plans to integrated the PCI-E Tunnel into the CPU as well. Should be interesting as AMD is planning some major integration involved w/ Windows Vista. "
- How do you think people are going to interpret that ?
You: "it does not 'read' faster than it 'writes' as you claim above." - The people that MADE the CPU seem to say otherwise...hmm....
You: "The coherent HT links are just used to aggregate memory throughput across each NUMA node" - They're used for exactly what you said as well...COHERENCY...meaning the 2 CPU's communicating to each other :O!!!!! Not just to share Memory Bandwidth.
I still state, you don't know alot about Opteron 64's or Athlon 64's for that matter. I know you're going to research Google.com for a few hours to try and find some small thing wrong with my posts or to find some small piece of information to "one-up" me, and you'll probably find something, but that doesn't bother me. Enjoy your time, Google has a new logo for St. Patrick's Day, tell me how you like it.
~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
AMD (the people who make the processors) do not claim they read the memory at say 2 GHz, and write to it a at 400 MHz. This is what your statement is 'implying'.
They read and write to memory at 400 MHz (DDR) x 128 bit (or 64 bit if single channel).
The HyperTransport links in a 1-way, non NUMA, system, the kind that you often recommend to people are not used to keep cache conents in sync (as the systems you recommend only have 1 processor, with 2 cores within it, which thus communicate directly w/o using an external bus, be it a FSB, or a HTT bus, etc).
To keep it short: The AMD systems you pimp / build / recommend to other people lack coherent HyperTransport links.
"I still state, you don't know alot about Opteron 64's or Athlon 64's for that matter" - This is a personal attack on my character, and slanderous at the very least, I wont waste a mods time reporting it as enough people are laughing at the "Mike stated it, so it must be true" spin you've put on yourself.
You are 100% correct in that the coherent HTT links are not just used to aggregate memory performance, they also keep CPU caches in check.
eg: If a CPU in socket A changes data in cache/memory, then other CPUs in other sockets need to know, or they might try and fetch 'old / invalid data of code' from memory...... h
owever with AMDs design this is impossible.... look at it, the only way another CPU can access memory owned by a CPU in another socket via that CPU, the one acting as a NorthBridge, anyway thus the CPU just presents back to the bus what it already has in L1/L2 cache without reading memory.... this is one of the 'secrets' as to why AMD 4-way Opterons scale in an almost linear manner.
I suggest you é-mail AMD and ask who provides the best AMD Opteron system builders courses, or training, in (and I am guessing here), the good old United States of America, in your local region.
Some of the stuff you write I do enjoy reading, but I think alot of people misinterpret what the underlying 'meaning' of your posts truely are (myself included).
I mean first you say the PCI-X tunnel is integrated into an AMD CPU, then you take it back and say it isn't, or it wasn't worded very well, etc.
Heck, just for this reply I've used the [Preview] button twice.
The trick to AMD ccNUMA is that a processor can not get to memory without going through another processor, and because of this if said (2nd) processor has changed something in memory (a write), when it is asked for that data/code by the 1st processor it can just feed it what it already has in cache.
This keeps cache sync overheads, and latency (memory accesses are avoided in a very smart way) very low, and permits the memory performance to be aggregated more effectively than other designs on the market...... this is the secret to the AMD ccNUMA design.
This is right from AMDs mouth, techdocs, whitepapers, & staff ... and in contract to what your posts 'imply' and often 'present as text' until they are edited.
I respect you are very supportive of AMD, but as you don't appear to understand the basics of NUMA (around well before the Opterons) I fail to see how you can 'proclaim' yourself to have a better understanding (while correcting posts) about a system, and associated core logic chipsets, that you do not even own.
Many other people on the forums share my opinion, however we both support AMD (for now I do anyway), so can we not just all live in peace without making crude comments about things that no-one really cares about.
.... and just for digging yourself into a hole:
Otherwise feel free to provide me a link to an AMD Opteron 100 series (any 100 series available today btw, S939 or S940) system reading memory at 11 GB/sec. As I know no Opteron 100 series has NUMA, and what you 'now claim' about the 11 GB/sec reads is impossible. Any AMD engineer will agree with me on that. (Until they move to Dual-Channel DDR2-800 that is , but you appear to be referring to past systems you've pimped or built, and niether of us can predict the future with 100% accuracy).
You've also stated DDR(1)-400 PC3200 DDR-SDRAM, in a 128 bit configuration can do 11 GB/sec reads using 'magic' on a single CPU socket system.
Please back those claims up now.... (this is what forums are for, discussion and backing up claims with hard proof).
To re-interate, I still repsect you as one dude respects another dude, and many of your previous threads / posts and discussions have caught my eye, in a positive light..... I hope many of my own have done the same for you. The rare exception is replies like your last two, which if you go and edit so they have timestamps after this reply I'll lose any respect I did have for you. 8)
One brother to another, keep it real, and keep the systems pimped damn well.
PS: Google browsing for accurate technical is sad, (we both agree) as you'll get hits from Google which are technically very far from the truth. When dealing with IT hardware go straight to the source (in this case AMD and nVidia) for the technical documents and whitepapers on their hardware. Do not pass Go[ogle], Do not steal my donunts.
I also suggest people open their minds and read a few from Sun MicroSystems, as dealing with purely x86/x64 architectures can limit ones future potential... even impairing it.
http://www.sun.com - Huge number of TechDocs'n'WhitePapers.
We ain't all that different Mike, we just deal with different systems frequently. Ones without NUMA, and ones with NUMA. (Hey you said I brag about it, so.... why not brag some more - hehehe :lol: )