When Do Upkeep Effects Occur?

[Grognard]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Given an enchantment that has an effect during upkeep (e.g., Lim-Dul's
Hex), can it be bounced back into its owner's hand before the effect
occurs, by, e.g., boomerang?

--
G'Kar: With luck, they may never find you. But, if they do, you will
know pain. Na'Toth: And you will know fear. G'Kar: And then you will
die. Have a pleasant flight. - Babylon 5, Parliament of Dreams
Allen Rines -- grognard@theworld.com -- Boston, Massachusetts, USA

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Grognard <grognard@shell01.TheWorld.com> writes:
> Given an enchantment that has an effect during upkeep (e.g., Lim-Dul's
> Hex), can it be bounced back into its owner's hand before the effect
> occurs, by, e.g., boomerang?

Yes. However, that won't stop the effect from occurring in any way.

At the beginning of the upkeep step, everything that triggers on
upkeep triggers, goes on the stack, and then people get a chance to
respond. You can Boomerang something at this time, but it won't affect
the abilities on the stack. (If it's not in play at your next upkeep
though, it of course won't do anything at that time.)

On Lim-Dul's Hex in particular, there's no way to have the effect
affect your opponent and not you. You could boomerang it at the end of
your opponent's turn, but then it wouldn't trigger at all, and
wouldn't do anything to either of you.

,----[ Oracle ]
| Lim-Dul's Hex
| {1}{B}
| Enchantment
| At the beginning of your upkeep, for each player, Lim-Dul's Hex
| deals 1 damage to that player unless he or she pays {B} or {3}.
`----

--
Peter C.
It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Grognard <grognard@shell01.TheWorld.com> wrote:
>Given an enchantment that has an effect during upkeep (e.g., Lim-Dul's
>Hex), can it be bounced back into its owner's hand before the effect
>occurs, by, e.g., boomerang?

Sure.

But if the _ability_ triggers "at the beginning of (your) upkeep", there is
no way to bounce it that turn before the ability TRIGGERS and GOES ONTO THE
STACK.

The _effect_ of the ability only occurs once the ability resolves, and there's
plenty of time to respond to the ability once it's on the stack. But to stop
the ability from _resolving_ you need to counter it, one way or another, and
removing its SOURCE isn't going to do that.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
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[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

In <ce8ca2$gdh$1@pcls4.std.com> Grognard <grognard@shell01.TheWorld.com> writes:

> Given an enchantment that has an effect during upkeep (e.g., Lim-Dul's
> Hex), can it be bounced back into its owner's hand before the effect
> occurs, by, e.g., boomerang?

The way the card is written, it's not clear:

During your upkeep, Lim-Dul's Hex deals 1 damage to each player.
Each player may pay B or 3 to prevent the damage to himself or
herself.

That's why the card (and all other cards like it which have automatic
effects during the upkeep step) has been officially rewritten to
take effect at the *beginning* of upkeep:

At the beginning of your upkeep, for each player, Lim-Dul's Hex
deals 1 damage to that player unless he or she pays B or 3.

Now the answer to your question is more obvious. At the beginning
of upkeep, the Hex's triggered effect goes on the stack. Bouncing
it at this point won't do much good.

The only way to stop the Hex with bounce is to bounce it *before*
upkeep.

--
John Gordon "Between BST melee, their spells, their warders' melee,
gordon@panix.com and their warders' procs, they put out enough damage
to make monks cry." -- Dark Tyger