Where is crossfire? and the R520?

[RX8]

Any one heard any news lately about:

crossfire?

R520?

this is getting frustrating, i just blown part of my new system money: £550 ($1100 USD) on a traxxas REVO (nitro RC) with upgraded titanium parts, this was the r520 money which was going to go into my new system i cant wait any longer for new stuff to come out.

Pictures below: I made a humvee s2 body for it, can reach 45 mph, it could be the R520 if you look hard enough.

Top down http://www.rcpics.net/img/61463
Front view http://www.rcpics.net/img/61464
close front down: http://www.rcpics.net/img/61465
Rear: http://www.rcpics.net/img/61466
Side shot: http://www.rcpics.net/img/61467
angle shot: http://www.rcpics.net/img/61468




<font color=purple> BOW DOWN AND SUCK MY eD!cK </font color=purple>

 

[Action_Man]

<A HREF="http://www.the-inquirer.net/?article=24585" target="_new">Crossfire in August</A>

R520? September I believe.

Makes sense.

Some people are like slinkies....
Not really good for anything but you cant help smile when you see one tumble down the stairs.

 

[lonelypauly]

I just like how ATI jockers used to cry on and on about how SLI is a just a gimmick, now some ATIers have jumped on the Crossfire bandwagon.

<b><font color=blue>Athlon64 3200+ Winchester/MSI Neo4 Platinum SLI/MSI 6800 Ultra/1 GB Kingston HyperX (Dual Channel)/74GB WD Raptor/600Watt Enermax Noisetaker/ Dual Mitsubishi 21 Inch Monitors</b></font color=blue>

 

[shawnlizzle =]]

um... crossfire>sli same concept, different implmentations. in theory, the "idea" of 2 cards working together is not a bad one at all, its just how companies develop and implement it. and sli was a good start, but it was far from being perfect, and crossfire takes the second step in this multi gpu thing... but then again ATI has been making massive mult gpu arrays for flight sims for years now, so they have a good foundation to work upon.

<font color=red>gforce mx100/200 @ 230/440 =]</font color=red>

 

[Gamer_369]

I just like how ATI jockers used to cry on and on about how SLI is a just a gimmick, now some ATIers have jumped on the Crossfire bandwagon.

That didn't make sense to me. If ATI'ers thought as SLI as a gimmick, it was probably because of how the viewed the technology as it was. Now that Crossfire is coming out, they are viewing it with a much more opened mind. Typical, though, from people who claim they are loyal with a particular GPU Company.

I think oringinally ATI was hoping that maybe on a slim chance, consumers would consider a dual x850 as a performance competitor to one of the newer cards by nVidia, such as the 7800GTX. But then they probably realised that consumers would see that as a...hmm, how can I put it nicely; a dead option.

I guess if consumers were 100% loyal to ATI, and refused of buying any product from nVidia, then this train of thought would be feasible. But being how that's not the case, and usually money can influence a person's "loyality," ATI decided to release Crossfire closer with the r520. That way consumers will consider Crossfire with the r520, just as SLI with the 7800 GTX.

ATI probably just created commotion about Crossfire being for the x850 and x800 to prove that it'll be an experienced enough technology for when the r520 actually came out.

But I honestly don't know why anyone would purchase a Crossfired x850 or x800.

But yea, intially crossfire was being said by ATI to release in mid-July for the x850, and in August for the x800. Well, mid-July is passing quickly, and there really is no sign of crossfire coming available any time soon (like any time this month). But it'll definately be here by the r520.

But when will the r520 come?! lol, that's the big question. I have always said, and will stick by my statement that it will probably release later August - Early September, but we won't see it show up widespread until later Sept. all the way through Oct. Even if they don't have a paper launch. And that's just my own speculation, so don't quote me on that.

You know, all of that money you spent, you could have used on a dual 7800 GTX SLI....drools

 

[Gamer_369]

um... crossfire>sli same concept, different implmentations.

Actually, that's not entirly true, and if it was, then in no matter of time, SLI could very much be > Crossfire.

You see, back when SLI was introduced, it was really the only multi-gpu product out there. It really had no need to be able to be the all-out best multi-gpu solution. Now that Crossfire is on the virge of release (few months), nVidia has been making improvements to the technology, that they left much room for. The 16 AF is just one example. And I wouldn't be surprised to soon see SLI starting to become capable with *all* newer games, or such.

It's basically competition. Each Comapny is going to try and come out with a technological topper for each of it's multi-gpu solutions. Has anyone else heard of Sli 2, supposedly coming sometime next year?

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Actually, that's not entirly true, and if it was, then in no matter of time, SLI could very much be > Crossfire.

That's really a silly statement, I’d use harsher words but I’ll assume it’s naïveté.
“<i>Well... uh... if they come out with something better well then it'll morph into something better still!</i>”
Sure sure, SLi doesn't suddenly change it's stripes. SLi2 may end up being better than Crossfire, but that's not the old, limited and restrictive SLi he and most other people are talking about.

You see, back when SLI was introduced, it was really the only multi-gpu product out there.

You want to revise that statement? 'Cause really it's pretty ignorant of the facts.

nVidia has been making improvements to the technology, that they left much room for.

Not for SLi-1.0 they haven't it's nice and hardwired into the GPU on the 6series. For the G70 they may have changed that, but the original is pretty much stuck with what it always was.

The 16 AF is just one example.

You'd probably want to revise that too. :tongue:

And I wouldn't be surprised to soon see SLI starting to become capable with *all* newer games, or such.

Based on what, hopes and dreams?

Has anyone else heard of Sli 2, supposedly coming sometime next year?

Which is not now, not soon and most importantly not the SLi everyone was talking about. SLi2 will not offer the same features as Crossfire for any current GF6 series cards due to the way it was implemented, which is really the issue for most people. SLi2 may offer what people have been asking for all along from even cards like the G70, but that's not right here right now, now is it?

Either way they're still boutique products for bungholiomarks, since the upgrade path on SLi is limited, and by the time Crossfire comes out for the X8 series it'll cost close to what you could buy the next gen cards for if you sold your old one, and probably wind up with better performance.

Like I said long ago, SLi (and Crossfire) for the 130nm generation offers very little potential because the architecture change benifits tend to offer far more benefit overall as was seen by the G70.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new"><font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK

 

[RX8]

I think your being a little harsh in that reply, just correct the mistakes which had been siad what have been enough mate.

Question for you GGA how many crossfire cards have you seen on sale? I remember seeing sli cards on sale before the motherboards had been on sale.

How good will crossfire be in the real world still has to be seen, untill then SLi is king. SLi 2 is not reality is not in the process of being made yet or any news has not been made official to my knowledge please correct me if i am wrong.

As i have siad before i hope i am not dissapointed with crossfire or drivers and game capatability.

But knowing how ati works expect a lot of patching, failure, and dissapointment in the begining just like how sli was.


I would be surprised if crossfire kicks ass, i dont expect too much from it when it is first released.

Dont expect Miracles humans made them.



<font color=purple> BOW DOWN AND SUCK MY eD!cK </font color=purple>

 

[Gamer_369]

That's really a silly statement, I’d use harsher words but I’ll assume it’s naïveté.
“Well... uh... if they come out with something better well then it'll morph into something better still!”

Um...maybe I'm mis-reading your statement, but isn't that a true fact with the entire gpu market, ultimately with the entire PC market as well? That improvements are constantly being made on previous products to increase the level at which people want them. Do you honestly think nVidia is
going to let a substantial amount of increased attractiveness, such as Crossfire being available for all games, is not going to prompt them to then work on SLI to provide the same features if not better. And then the same with Crossfire. It's just a matter of the market, and I'm sure you've stated it many times before, that something better with always come out. If you want to get into it, Crossfire's not even an optional product right now, as it isn't even on shelves. And from the benchmarks shown, I certainly wouldn't dismiss the fact that totally wiping out SLI. And that's without the product enhancements nVidia is expected to make to their current multi-gpu product. Well, this is just my commen sense, but I guess if you feel it's neive, then just disregard my comments

You want to revise that statement? 'Cause really it's pretty ignorant of the facts.

Mind to explain? Or atleast tell what your version of the situation is? I think that'd prove to me a more productive post, than for you to totally just bash my statements.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>The 16 AF is just one example.

You'd probably want to revise that too.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Can you also explain how I am wrong, because in this case I honestly don't know. I thought nVidia did just release a 16 AA or AF. I'm not exactly sure, but a helpful repsonse would have been a little more appreciated.

Based on what, hopes and dreams?

Based on the fact of competition and "better things are always 'round the corer." But, yes, mostly hopes and dreams...

 

[aLawLz187]

The thing most appealing about crossfire is the multiple ways that you can have the cards render the video. WIth SLI you are stuck with the split vertical screen. With crossfire you can do tiles and two other rendering types. Another thing so appealing about crossfire is that it works with all games unlike SLI where it only works with certain games that nVidia has introduced a driver fix for it to work. I think the list of sli compatible games a while ago [i bet its a bunch more now though] was 15.

About this 'vaporware' and the r520, as someone said previously, how many people are going to spend 900+ dollars on two x850s if they can get the same or better performance for 500-600 bucks? with the r520, ati didnt want to release a card that had awful yeilds and essentially repeat the x800xtpe fiasco after it was released. I bet they were also a bit stunned with Nvidia's hardlaunch of the 7800gtx.

Crossfire is not a mainstream type thing along with sli. If someone say sli'd two 6600gt's, they would be spending the same amount of money as they could on one 6800gt which i believe has the same performance or about the same performance. and with the r520, i bet it will be about 600$ or 550 bucks right off the bat if they hardlaunch it. ive been waiting for this generation of cards and i still dont even have that much money but im not sure many of us on here or wherever can afford two 600 dollar cards plus a 200 dollar motherboard. Even the r520 is highend but when you add another 800 bucks ontop of that card, and there is likely to be a brand new card out in less than a year, its kind of pointless spending that much money when it will be backdated in no time. There lies another advantage of crossfire; i believe that you can use a new crossfire edition card with an olderseries slave card [if you cant then sorry i havent really been reading much lately.]

-lawler

A64 3500+ / K8N Neo2 Plat / BBA 9600pro / 2x512mb HyperX ddr500 / Audigy LS / Samsung 120gb

Wanna buy a Thermaltake XaserIII SuperTower Blk Edition w/ 420w psu UNOPENED, tell me.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

I think your being a little harsh in that reply,

Probably, but I did edit it down before posting to be a little milder, I've noticed a disturbing trend when it comes to the info from Game-er, it's ringing to close to the previous incarnation of the similar name.

Question for you GGA how many crossfire cards have you seen on sale?

'Crossfire Edition' cards, none. Cards that can be used together for crossfire, quite a selection, even at my local DrugStore (LD).

I remember seeing sli cards on sale before the motherboards had been on sale.

That's because SLi is very hardware dependant, which is what I was talking about, when mentioning the lack of any possible move towards scaling (hardwired into the core).

How good will crossfire be in the real world still has to be seen, untill then SLi is king. SLi 2 is not reality is not in the process of being made yet or any news has not been made official to my knowledge please correct me if i am wrong.

Exactly, and those are both my points, the difference, is even unlike SLi2, Crossfire has been reviewed and tested by many independant reviewers. SLi2 is at the same stage Crossfire was last fall/winter.

As i have siad before i hope i am not dissapointed with crossfire or drivers and game capatability.

Personally it'll be interesting to see (especially once they get the extra levels of AA working). But I still see it as primarily a boutique product until we reach a true process and die size limit of diminishing returns.

But knowing how ati works expect a lot of patching, failure, and dissapointment in the begining just like how sli was.

Not just was, but still is to some extent. And you know what, that's the way it will probably always be for both, despite the supposed elegance and relatively easy compatability, I think both will be a mess with new games unless they've had back-end support, and likely each driver update will break something else.

I would be surprised if crossfire kicks ass, i dont expect too much from it when it is first released.

Dont expect Miracles humans made them.

I would say that's wise, but unlike SLi, Crossfire is being released against a solid competitor so I would expect a slightly more stable launch, but there's bound to be a ton of problems just like any new feature.

I still won't worry about it, really I don't care about Crossfire so much, it's interesting from a technical standpoint, but it's not like if someone would adopt Surround-Gaming, now THAT'S a worthwhile multi-card application, and I'd be willing to bet it's easier to implement than SLi/Crossfire, and would be less likely to 'NEED' equal cards, probbably could use widely different cards.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new"><font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK

 

[RX8]

we are like minded people, i am just going to hover around now untill there released.

I think all grafix companys will always have driver problems when new hardware is released, its all part of the parcel, this will happen for many years to come.

<font color=purple> BOW DOWN AND SUCK MY eD!cK </font color=purple>

 

[RX8]

"The thing most appealing about crossfire is the multiple ways that you can have the cards render the video."

that statement is exactly what SLi lacks, and that is why we are all happy its coming, it does not matter which company brings it out, its just we have a better product to purchase than sli which is costly and very limiting.

<font color=purple> Dont expect Miracles humans made them. </font color=purple>

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

The thing for me that is nice, is that it pushes the tech forward (no judgement of better until they benchmark).

But I tell you I think this is shortsighted as I think the true benifit of parrallelism would be an X700PRO/X800PRO/XL with an R520 or a GF6600GT/GF6800GT with a G70 and have the lesser card drive the surround monitors @ even 16bit, and then have the powerhouse cards drive the main monitor. This would also give a true use for your old card.

Think of the nice surround setups you could develop with 3 20" widescreen Dells, or heaven forbid the 24" Dell/HP/etc. and I can get 27" 1366x768 planels for just over $800CDN. Imagine that array, or even better something like these;

<A HREF="http://www.go-l.com/monitors/athens/features/athens_2.jpg" target="_new">http://www.go-l.com/monitors/athens/features/athens_2.jpg</A>

or like the one I saw detailed with rotating monitors setup to display virtualized 3D approaching/achieving autostereoscopy.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new"><font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK

 

[cefoskey]

Probably, but I did edit it down before posting to be a little milder, I've noticed a disturbing trend when it comes to the info from Game-er, it's ringing to close to the previous incarnation of the similar name.

AHHH! The return of GAME!! He's back!!!

lol maybe he woulda picked a less-similar alias

"Who is General Failure, and why is he reading my drive?"
P4 3.0C HT, Intel D865GBF, 1GB Crucial PC3200 DDR, 2x WD 36GB Raptor 10kRPM, BBA Radeon 9800PRO, SB Audigy, Hauppage WinTV

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Yeah it was just sounding all too familiar recently, but I truely hope it was just naïveté.

Be amped, enjoy, talk about how things NEED to be equal to or better than the competition, but saying that they flat out will be or that something is a flat out failure when you have no concrete info is just too fanboish to me. I pulled back from saying it outright, but it does enter that realm.

BTW, I hear XGI is coming out with a Contari V12 with 5 VPUs (to ensure more stable/compatible drivers ), expect it to ship with 2GB of 128bit memory.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new"><font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

PS, here's that monitor I was refering to;

<A HREF="http://csdl2.computer.org/comp/proceedings/vr/2004/8415/00/84150278.pdf" target="_new">http://csdl2.computer.org/comp/proceedings/vr/2004/8415/00/84150278.pdf</A>

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new"><font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK

 

[Guest]

rofl maybe he shoudl while hes still a stranger!

If you do gamer dont pick soemthing along the line of Kidney(was it kinney...how fast do we forget....)


Asus P4P800DX, P4C 2.6ghz@3.25ghz, 2X512 OCZ PC4000 3-4-4-8, MSI 6800Ultra stock, 2X30gig Raid0

 

[Guest]

that is sick!

Asus P4P800DX, P4C 2.6ghz@3.25ghz, 2X512 OCZ PC4000 3-4-4-8, MSI 6800Ultra stock, 2X30gig Raid0

 

[mozzartusm]

Probably, but I did edit it down before posting to be a little milder, I've noticed a disturbing trend when it comes to the info from Game-er, it's ringing to close to the previous incarnation of the similar name.

Yes, I think you are correct. He has managed is temper so far, but everything else looks the same. Game has become Gamer and I wonder about the 3(69) as I seem to remember him ranting about how well endowed he was. I still havent figured out how that has anything to do with video cards.


ASUS P5WD2 Premium
Intel 3.73 EE @ 5.6Ghz
XMS2 DDR2 @ 1180Mhz

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SuperPI 25secs

 

[RX8]

I am lovin these screens, what can i say it looks amazing. its the future.

<font color=purple> Dont expect Miracles humans made them. </font color=purple>

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

So you think you want to trade in your plasma for one of those Autostereoscopic displays.

No Burn-in, just burn-out/up.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new"><font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK

 

[Gamer_369]

Wow, I'm a little confused? Am I being compared to another previous member?

Be amped, enjoy, talk about how things NEED to be equal to or better than the competition, but saying that they flat out will be or that something is a flat out failure when you have no concrete info is just too fanboish to me. I pulled back from saying it outright, but it does enter that realm.

Wow, I don't think you could have mis-interpreted my statements anymore...
What I said what that both nVidia and ATI will be making a fighting effort to deliver multi-gpu solutions topping the other company's product. If Crossfire comes out with something interesting, then nVidia will sure as hell consider bringing just as a good/modified/better thing.

Were you even around when SLI was released? Because I'm sure you can read many reviews explaining how the technology has become so much more tolerated, in terms of features and specifications, then from when it was first introduced. Experience is the key element that SLI has obtained.

Dude, I don't think I understand your train of thought. I had assumed it would have been obvious to you that both companies would want their product to be better. And to do so, they would need to up the technology/performance/benefits/features to do so.
Why? because in a buisness market, you don't want your competitior being better than you.

Do you honestly think nVidia would stand by and let Crossfire offer more than it's own product? In buisness and marketing, you want your company to be the best, and therefore you work on such improvements to do so. NVidia DOESN'T want it's multi-gpu solution to be just euqal with Crossfire; the same as ATI doesn't want it's multi-gpu to be equal to SLI. They want it better, and therefore, they will fight to make sure that's the case.

Concrete info? What have I said that requires such? That nVidia and ATI are strong competitors, and fight to deliver the better product? Do you need concrete info for that? I'd sure as hell hope not, but if so, then just take my word on it.


Honestly, you weren't hard at all on me, mostly because what you said seemed to distract from the points I tried to make. Other than addressing them based on an actual process of thought, you approached in a dominant manner, which was really unnesscisary. Because now I'm confused as hell what your even talking about....you mention fanbooish?

Ok, I'm sorry that if I claim newer technology to come out for nVidia is too fanboish for you. Maybe I should tone it down a bit, though, eh?




<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Gamer_369 on 07/28/05 09:30 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Gamer_369]

"The thing most appealing about crossfire is the multiple ways that you can have the cards render the video."

That statement is exactly what SLi lacks, and that is why we are all happy its coming, it does not matter which company brings it out

Actually, nVidia was considering one of the modes for their SLI -(Was it supertiling, I believe?)- that Crossfire will use. But they ultimately decided not to, so apparently they didn't see it as a significate move that would prove to be benefical. Other than that, aren't the other modes quite similiar?

I know in Scissor mode, which both SLI and Crossfire have, that nVidia was able to implement it so where the hardware could dynamcally adjust where the screen was split to better balance the load.

Crossfire, on the other hand, will only let you set the driver to select how the screen should be split, but only on a per-application basis.
I actually read this over at Anandtech.

And about option availability, well correct me if I'm mistaken, but Crossfire will only allow you to use AA up to 14x, while SLI now has it up to 16x.

its just we have a better product to purchase than sli which is costly and very limiting.

Wow, Crossfire's a better product? Kewl, I guess you must be in that special secret ATI club that get's the cool products in advance. Hey, how's the r520?

The fact is, Crossfire's not even here yet, but when it does come is the time to be making the "This rocks" statements. Otherwise, your opinions on features and "appeal" are based on what ATI is saying...and any company is going to strive to make their product look stunning.

And either way, both Crossfire and SLI are going to be expensive. Well, SLI already is, and I can't confirm any prices for Crossfire, but the truth is these are like the uber high-end technology, and of course they would come with such a premium cost.

It might sound like I'm biased, and I am; I'm biased towards the product that's out and performing well. Had that been Crossfire, with SLI away in the future, everything I'd say could/would be around.


Also:

Probably, but I did edit it down before posting to be a little milder, I've noticed a disturbing trend when it comes to the info from Game-er, it's ringing to close to the previous incarnation of the similar name.

AHHH! The return of GAME!! He's back!!!
lol maybe he woulda picked a less-similar alias

Lol, I'm pretty sure I'm not the person your talking about, but I must admit it is rather flattering for ya'll to be speculating about me ^_^;;

 

[Action_Man]

Wow, Crossfire's a better product?I guess you must be in that special secret ATI club that get's the cool products in advance.

Crossfire, on the other hand, will only let you set the driver to select how the screen should be split, but only on a per-application basis.
I actually read this over at Anandtech.

I guess you missed the benchmarks in that review of theirs.

Some people are like slinkies....
Not really good for anything but you cant help smile when you see one tumble down the stairs.