Which combo'?

G

Guest

Guest
Hi all, sorry for the dual posting in the other forum.
I need a bit of advice on what the pro's and con's are on the following.

Epox- EP8K7A+
ASUS-A7M266, A7A266 , A7V133 .
Gigabyte- GA7DX
Also want to use Asus Ipannel or Digidoc 5.

AMD CPU. 1.4 or 1.3 with 266fsb

HSF- WBK38, CAK38. or new Dragon orb3.

PSU- Enermax 430w or 550w
Toptower 420w "gold"


MUST be a very good overclocking board.
Will mostly be used for video editing and movies home theatre,photographic work and business applications.
Most importantly for reading THG reviews 😎

I'm currently planning on overclocking my present CPU 1g axia as high as possible for some heart in my mouth entertainment on my final choice on the above.

Ok guys give me your opinions.

Thanx in advance for your sugestions. :wink:





<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by scotty3303 on 08/02/01 07:32 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 
Somehow, I saw photographic and thought it said pornographic. That was weird.

Anyway, wait for the KG7, if you're looking for an overclockers board. More options that you could ever know how to use :)

If you're going to overclock, then go for the SK6. Otherwise, use the Dragon Orb 3, just because it looks the best (and works well).

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Whoever thinks up a good sig for me gets a prize :wink:
 
Yeah hi how are you,
Umm porno,lol
Yes I might just have to be patient and wait . :frown:
The KG7 is there a review on it?
Also the SK6 I have not seen on sale here in Australia yet but I will have another look. Ordered the dragon anyway to replace the mini copper orb..

Crank it up... way up, I need that power.
 
Interesting post, but lack some critical information. As a heads up, the lack of information makes it tough to suggest a solution. A few things left out are your video solution (hardware and software), intended operating system and drive configurations and just how much REALLY you will be using this for video processing.

The hardest part of specifying the right motherboard is having an idea of what your video solution (hardware and software) will be and what operating system you will be running under.

Windows 2000 has some definite problems with SOME video editing solutions. Some are related to direct Windows 2000 software/driver compatibility (MICROSOFT BUGS) and others to disk I/O and video (PCI to AGP) interface conflicts (more of the same). This extends to SOME motherboards having OS compatibility issues with Dual video cards and other devices.

If you are going to be serious about video editing you should consider the following:

1) SCSI is the best solution for data storage and should be considered a MUST for anyone doing video processing for more than anything besides a hobby. Disk data I/O is EXTREMELY important to video editing and processing! The best possible solution is multiple SCSI drives (up to 30 drives on most motherboards) in a striped/mirrored RAID configuration. There are also some real nice hardware RAID controllers out there (reasonably priced) that you could of course add instead, but I wouldn't do it to any motherboard with less than 64-bit PCI slots.

2) If not using SCSI, AT LEAST TWO ATA-100 drives are a MUST! One drive for booting and application software and any other drives used for data. The bitch of this is that the A7V133 has great drive capabilities supporting up to 8 IDE drives with 4 drives being capable of running ATA-100 or in a RAID configuration. The downside is the PC133 RAM, especially now with Over-clocked 150MHz DDR "PC2400" in the CAS2 flavor (NOT 2.5) is coming out from some of the select manufacturers like Mushkin and Corsair.

3) This leads us to the obvious choice for high speed DDR, the AMD760 chipset. Put simply, it's the best available solution for Video Processing, not counting the as yet illusive Dual CPU running AMD 762 chipset which, WILL BE truly the best (after the video editing software companies all setup for Dual CPU operations under Linux).

Due to the problems with Windows 2000 SP2 you may (UNLESS YOU ARE USING ALL SCSI, in which case Windows 2000 SP2 MAY be okay depending on what you are using for video and disk) quite possibly still have problems. Windows 2000 SP1 will run without some of the crashing problems, but you'll have to deal with the fact that there is no ATA-100 support under this revision, so it's either all SCSI or “Crashville” USA.

4) If you are going with a SCSI solution, you should seriously consider a board other than what you have listed below. Specifically, I would look for a motherboard with an Adaptec ASIC to give you onboard 64-bit Ultra160 support.
Remember, you need 3 times the disk space of the file you want to edit, so don't under buy drives. Sure, once your data is mastered you can move it off, but in the meantime, you'll need 1/3 of the space for the original, 1/3 of the space for editing and 1/3 of the space for creating the output master.

I would look at having 4-18GB, 15,000RPM Drives to give you a starting point of 36GB striped and mirrored RAID space for data. I would boot up and run my applications on an ATA-100, IBM 60GXP unless you wanted to go SCSI there too. Again, hardware RAID is better, in that in theory it is supposed to remove a substantial CPU burden while increasing the BUS throughput, but that could be an article in itself.

5) If you buy a boxed CPU, you'll not only get a factory warranty of three years on the CPU, but you'll get a factory fan with a 3-year warranty too and it will fit on any motherboard. Not only do OEM CPU's carry NO WARRANTY AT ALL from AMD, but also some of the coolers you listed don't fit well on some of those motherboards. Add the prices together and you'll find you're much better off with "Boxed".

6) If you insist on going OEM, you should check out GlacialTech's Igloo 2x00 series. They recently got good write-ups for both the Abit and Asus platform at 1.733GHz.
See http://www.glacialtech.com.tw/ for details.

7) With DDR RAM prices so low, I would kiss PC133 goodbye unless I were running a Pentium III, the only place left where it is crazy to run DDR or RDRAM.

Summary.
NOTE: When you read this, THINK OF 'TOM'S POWERBOX' MOTHERBOARD.
AMD762 based if you can find it, AMD760 if you can't.
512MB - 1GB of PC2400 (150MHz) CAS2 ECC RAM (ECC is a must!)
TWO Boxed Athlon MP CPU's @ 1.2GHz (If 762 Chipset) or ONE Boxed Athlon 1.4GHz if AMD 760 Chipset.
Onboard Adaptec AIC-7899 or the better (but more rare) AIC-7899A ASIC for SCSI Drives.
If SCSI, Think 15,000+RPM, Ultra160 Drives (4x18GB Drives = 36GB usable)
Enermax EG-465P-VE(FC) Power Supply
Dell Case will be too small for you if you add drives, I'd go with an In-Win Q500 Case (get the one with the smallest Power supply since you'll yank it anyway and replace it with the MUCH better, long corded Enermax.
Linux
BOOT & Applications run from an IBM 60GXP.
If Data space is IDE instead of SCSI, be sure to get a motherboard with IDE RAID support (so you can stripe and mirror) your data drives. Use IBM 60GXP's here too.

8) New quote of the week candidate: I am glad you didn’t ask about a P4, 100MHz bus just plain bites!

Steve



Stable Technologies
'The way IT should be!'
 
Thankyou Steve for that informative reply.
Yes I agree with the scsi option, although at this stage finances are good but not that great. The 762 AMD boards are a bit expensive for me. My plan was to get a good base to build on eventually obtaining a setup above hobbyist level. gulp, so much for that holiday.lol So i will stick with the raid on a AMD760 board. I was thinking of a scsi/pci card anyway for my scanner (its a scsi/ISA)so I think I could add a few HDD's to this later.

Anyway, current information:
o/s WinME
2 WD HDD ata100 x 30gb
not sure on the video/still cam yet, looking at the new ones designed for computer only.
Will be adding a burner and a new ata100 60gb hdd.
Video software will probably be from ulead as I am impressed with their stuff so far, but could be bundled with whatever camera I buy (Sony or Panasonnic).

btw my tower is a full ATX,c/w 5 bays+ 1fdd bay. Had a tiny 250w psu, 300w now.



Crank it up... way up!! I need that power.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by scotty3303 on 08/03/01 00:17 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
 
stable, don't want to flame, but most people on these boards will disagree with some of what you say.

SCSI drives are great, but almost no home users (like Scotty) can afford 4 18GB Cheetah x15s, like you suggest.

You mention two IDE drives, so why not put them in a RAID? Simple to do, and the board I recommended (KG7-RAID), has an easy to work with HightPoint 370 controller right next to the Southbridge.

I would also have to say that OEM CPUs are better than boxed. Not many people care about a warranty, since if it's DOA the seller will replace it, and most other reasons for needed a CPU replaced are user error and/or something that not many people on here are inexperienced enough to do.

Interesting heatsink, I'm looking into it more.

Oh, BTW, Tom's Powerbox and the "Build it yourself" articles are outdated. I wouldn't use them as a current technology reference too much.



Can't find any reviews on that heatsink. Do you knw of any?

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Whoever thinks up a good sig for me gets a prize :wink: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by FatBurger on 08/02/01 11:49 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
 
I won't take it as a flame, (cause I don't).

But I'll leave my post as stands due to the user classifications of what the application is and the "primary use" environment. As stated, this is not the configuration for the "hobby" people, but rather a system built for Video editing.

I suggested RAID, but want to emphasize that users should not mix boot/application drives with data drives in the case of video editing. Having to share the same channel, it would actually defeat the performance gains from striping/spanning. The idea is to keep the data heads rolling along. If the boot drive shares the IDE channel with a data span, then you aren't actually getting the advantages since application/OS interrupts will slow it down. It would actually be faster to have two IDE drives on two seperate controllers (1 for OS/APP, 1 for DATA) than it would to share a stripe/mirror.

As for OEM CPUs being better than boxed. I would dispute that outright. Boxed CPU represent the lowest level of rejection and therefore are the cream of the crop. We've tested enough of them to pick up on this pretty quickly. I would also dispute that users don't care about warranties, especially given that under load, if your CPU fan fails, you could smoke your CPU, even with thermal monitoring (unfortunately, we've seen this more than a few times) and then where are you? If this happens with a BOXED CPU, AMD will replace both, free of charge. Hell, they even pay the shipping. On the otherhand, you'll be hard pressed to find anybody replacing OEM CPU's. AMD won't even talk to you about an OEM CPU, they don't warranty or support them.

Finally, I would agree that there is a fair amount of outdated information in here (a good example is that MSI has NEVER shipped the K7Master nor the K7Master-S with 4-DIMMs (past evaluation boards) as pictured in Tom's Article); however, this board has pretty good drivers and runs stable if you can live with only 2-DIMM slots, which is why I pointed it out as a viable DDR motherboard with the K7Master-S version having the onboard SCSI Controller (which is a STEAL at the price).

Just a heads-up.
Steve

Oh, the articles about heatsink, visit:
http://www2.tomshardware.com/pressrelease/01q2/010607/index.html

(I find it hard to slap Tom down without picking him right up again!)

Steve

Stable Technologies
'The way IT should be!'
 
I think I will eventually build into that type of system, at least I now have an idea what is needed.

Crank it up... way up!! I need that power.
 
It would actually be faster to have two IDE drives on two seperate controllers (1 for OS/APP, 1 for DATA) than it would to share a stripe/mirror.
I completely agree, and it would also be more reliable (RAID 0 reduces HD reliability by 50%); plus your recommended HD configuration really facilitates backups (we all do backup, right?).


..if you can live with only 2-DIMM slots ..the K7Master-S version having the onboard SCSI Controller (which is a STEAL at the price).
I have to disagree here Steve, I don't see that board as "a steal". It costs <b>at least $100 more</b> than most comparable EIDE AMD761 boards!
 
Hi again,
the A7N266 board, wow, sounds real nice. Wait and see I suppose if it has more than two Dimm's when/if released. Any review sites with detail?

Oh, yes I will eventually set up scsi for video only and IDE raid for general app's, so more scsi the better for speed and if I ran the video/edit programs from say the IDE controlled disks would this effect the scsi data flow?? From what I can take from what you say, more is better with smaller storage, OR for the hobby level I want how about 2 x scsi of larger capacity?
Should I just stay with IDE at this stage?

I'm trying to find a middle of the road solution. Thanx....



Crank it up... way up!! I need that power.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by scotty3303 on 08/03/01 11:45 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 
True, compared to a regular EIDE board, the K7Master-S is about $100.00 more.

BUT, you must remember that not only does this system include EIDE, but also the Adaptec Ultra160 ASIC. The ASIC (on the K7Master-S) is what makes it "A Steal".

Here's why:
1) If you know you are going to want SCSI, your options are to either get it as an onboard feature (in this case, using the 64-bit Adaptec 7899 ASIC, OR to put it in a PCI slot. The downside to adding it in later is that if you purchase an Adaptec 29160 card, you're going to pay MUCH MORE than $100.00 for it and it will ONLY be 32-bit.

NOTE: While this card is 64-bit, most machines only come with 32-bit slots, thus 32-bit is the best it would run in these systems.

2) The interrupt management is better onboard than in the PCI slot.

3) Setup of onboard is a breeze compared to the PCI versions.

4) You don't lose a PCI slot (OR HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT CONFLICTS WITH SHARED PCI INTERRUPTS!) by having SCSI onboard.

In summary, what you are looking at is this:

A K7Master with an Adaptec 29160 would run for AT LEAST $75.00 MORE than a K7Master-S. This scenario would also run SCSI at only 32-bits while taking one of your important exclusive interrupt PCI slots. Finally, this configuration would be more difficult to setup (and may require help which should be considered as more $) than the K7Master-S.

Hope that helps.
Steve


Stable Technologies
'The way IT should be!'
 
OK,
Hmmmm. getting a good response. :smile:

Stable'.. almost convinced!
Some silly questions:
Review site for K7 master-s?
How much ram can it handle?
Has raid for ide?
Is it released yet?
Overclockable ?
anything else to add?

Thanx again..




Crank it up... way up!! I need that power.
 
No IDE RAID on the K7Master Series.

Reviews right here on Tom's Hardware (ONLY PLEASE IGNORE ALL MENTIONS OF 4-DIMM SLOTS! Only evaluation boards shipped with 4-DIMM(s), production uses two DIMM(s).

VERY overclock friendly (unlike the Asus Boards).

Yes, it is available.

The only thing I would add is this. We are presently about 3 months away from seeing reasonably priced Dual Athlon boards and CPU's (Athlon MP prices will drop in October).

Given that, you MAY want to consider waiting for one of these boards that will offer everything you see here, PLUS:

1) Support for all DDR Memory types (IE... Unbuffered, Buffered, ECC, Registered, Registered-ECC)
2) 4-DIMM slots on almost all 762 based motherboards versus most 761 or other chipset DDR boards shipping with 2 or 3 (and most 3-DIMM boards still only supporting the use of 2-DIMMs, go figure.)
3) A more refined chipset for supporting DDR.
4) A wider PCI I/O data path (66MHz versus 33MHz).
5) Chipset designed SPECIFICALLY for 64-bit LAN & SCSI integrated into the PCI bus.
6) New APIC bus for North Bridge to CPU communications.
7) New split, double rate (66MHz) data path from North Bridge to CPUs.

Just a heads up.
Steve



Stable Technologies
'The way IT should be!'
 
Allrighty, I will wait and save my cookies for dualie 762.

BUT! in the meantime I have a GA-7ixe4 board.no oc' features only fsb. I would like to get another board just until then, suggestions please?

(edited bit)
Have Axia 1G 200 fsb locked and will overclock it.
Dragon orb3 copper 7000rpm.
3 x 128mb pc133
1x isa scsi scanner card.

Will use this system later as a backup and family runabout.



Crank it up... way up!! I need that power.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by scotty3303 on 08/04/01 01:00 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
 
The ASIC (on the K7Master-S) is what makes it "A Steal". Here's why:
1) If you know you are going to want SCSI, your options are to either get it as an onboard feature (in this case, using the 64-bit Adaptec 7899 ASIC, OR to put it in a PCI slot. The downside to adding it in later is that if you purchase an Adaptec 29160 card, you're going to pay MUCH MORE than $100.00 for it and it will ONLY be 32-bit.
NOTE: While this card is 64-bit, most machines only come with 32-bit slots, thus 32-bit is the best it would run in these systems.
<b>Steve:</b> Somehow I missed this reply of yours (above), and just noticed it. I had to respond (even at this late date) simply because I don't believe your statements are correct...

While the K7Master-S' ASIC7899 is a 64-bit/66MHz chip, its AMD761 northbridge can only do 32-bit/33MHz on its PCI bus. Outside of the memory bus (which is restricted to memory), the only other bus on the board is the standard PCI bus (i.e., there is no 'super-wide PCI bypass' for the SCSI chip)!

Therefore, unless you can explain how this works, I can only conclude that your claim of a performance advantage for the K7Master-S' on-board SCSI, as opposed to using a dual-channel U160 PCI SCSI card (such as Tekram's DC-390U3D) in a much less expensive IDE AMD760 chipset mobo, is without any factual foundation.