Which is the best card GTX 280 or HD 4870 for me

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ashkon52

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Jan 5, 2005
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OK before everyone jumps to the conclusion that the HD 4870 is the better value card... I want to make it clear.

I am looking for a single GPU card option to run my games on a 24 inch monitor.

I am prepared to pay a bit more for a reasonable premium performance. (Performance used to mean something before Ati's 4XXX series)

With this in mind which card should I go for.

I want to this to be subjective because I am about to buy one of these cards... but unsure and dont just want the perspective of Price in mind.

Which one would you buy if you had the money.

Questions to ask

1. Is direct x 10.1 important given it takes roughly 2 years for a game to be developed from the ground up to utilize this. Given that direct x 9 games are almost the same as their counterpart direct x 10 at this stage.

2. GDR 3 or 5.... is this going to be utilised anytime soon

3. Will the more beefy GTX280 memory be crucial for games in the upcoming 6-12months.

4. Which one would OC better

5. Which one is less bug prone

6. Which one is likely to get even better performance with some driver updates...

any suggestions will be appreciated

I just want filter out the price perspective and get an idea on what is the best in my situation....

Please dont mention SLi or Xfire... I hate the idea of both

 
1. dx10 looks better and probably work faster, but i am not fan of Vista (and never be)
2. diference betwen GDR 3 and 5 is in data throughput and yes it could be ustilised easily with high resolution games.
3. i dont know what you mean
4. 4870 will OC better as its created on smaller technology and 280 is much more hot
5. Hard to say, both cards are on market short time, nvidia having crash/performance problems with some graphic functions used together, ati having worse drivers, but catching up with nvidia.
6. I think ati have more room for increasing performance with better drivers.

I was for loong tim (since ati rage) fan of nvidia, but now i am seriously thinking change mine 8800GTX for 4870x2
 



Buy a 4870 now, then you can sell it later and upgrade to a 4870x2.




You'll get much better re-sale residuals out of a 4870 than a GX280.
 
Go with the 4870 or wait for the 4870x2 would be my advice. As iam sure you know the 4870 isnt far behind the gtx280, and the soon to be released 4870x2 will destroy it.

The way i see it is that the 4870 can max out any game at that res other than crysis. However a single gtx280 still wont be able to max it out...it will only give you maybe 5fps more at most. Is that 5fps in one game worth the money...your call.

Or like i said wait for the 4870x2 and get a single pcb card that really might be able to play crysis well at those resolutions (tho still not max it out) .
 
Hard to say at this point. Usually youll see great improvements with ATI, but nVidia has been known to have them at times as well. I guess it matters alot about how the cards are set for future games (strengths vs weaknesses), but I find driver improvement overall in ATI's favor. As far as ocing goes, some threads Ive read, the ATI product does a lil better, but thats using hacked bio etc on the ATI cards, so it could/maybe do even better, too early to know for certain. The makeup of the 4870 shows it to handle your res very very well, so memory isnt an issue, as ATI tends to make better use of their memory than does nVidia because of its arch. I believe the 4870 will inch closer to the 280, but probably wont ever "own" it. That being said, the 280 is a slightly better card, but to me, it should also only show a slightly higher cost
 
GTX280 is the best option for you right now.

You seem to already know the answer to the value question is the 4870. You should realize that you are paying $200 more for maybe a 10-20% increase in performance.

It will yield you the following:
- faster card
- more memory (though less efficient)
- stable drivers with many games tailored to nvidia cards.

You pay the price with:
- higher energy consumption and greater heat output
- no DX10.1 (truly shameful)
- the stigma of ignorant people telling you "you should have got a 4870" and then in a month or two "you should have got a 4870x2", to which you will need to repeatedly explain "they weren't available when I got my card" or "I had the money, so I wanted the faster card".

If you want to buy the GTX280 and have the money, then just buy it - it is an AWESOME card.

I have a 24" monitor, but it would appear less cash. I am thinking of getting the 4850 or waiting to save some more and get the 4870. The reason being, the 4870 is that little bit more future proof. It has the buffer to allow performance at 1920x1200 in upcoming releases.

If price wasn't an issue, I would be waiting another month and buying the 4870x2 (which will dominate everything else available).
 



2. the difference between gddr3 and gddr5 is more architectual at this point, its more or less irrelevant to a buying decision

3. gtx200 series use more memory because of architecture, it is similar performance to the AMD solution for all intensive purposes

4. the 4870 does not OC any better, the OC of the gtx280 is very good and it has an excellent stock cooler - this is not to say the 4870 is a bad OC-er as long as you are willing to do softmods to drivers or buy an aftermarket cooler, but the 4870 has buggy software out of the box.

5. Nvidia's nv.dll errors are typically caused by users overclocking their video cards far past /reasonable/ limits, this is not an Nvidia problem this is end-user tomfoolery. I've actually never owned a single Nvidia card that was crash prone, and I overclocked every one of them quite a bit, but never higher than a top factory OC. On the AMD side of things, their drivers are getting much better than before, its certainly become a priority for them.

I had to pull these out and respond to them because they were more opinion than fact.



Oh, and my opinion of which card to get if you want to spend money?

GTX280 or wait for the 4870x2 to see if it has higher performance than the gtx280. There is no point in buying a 4870 if you are willing to go higher on the performance scale - so my recommendation is to wait until the 4870x2 is out.
 
I disagree that its similar for memory usage, as has been shown, you get more out of the ATI arch with less memory. Being as theres only one oc tool for the 4870s, and I havnt seen the results from using it yet, its too early to say, but like I said, at this point, Ive seen higher %'s on ATI using software mods. And thats the facts as Ive seen them
 
I would definitly suggest waiting for the 4870X2, as two 4870 are already beating the 280 in some benchmarks, wait and see, worse that can happen is a price drop on the gtx 280
 
So there isn't enough data to form a fact on that, so its irrelevant. He asked about the real documented performance, not the theoretical performance that maybe or maybe not coming.

You can argue about the architecture all you want but you're really deviating off topic.
 



The 4870 does not beat the gtx280 in any benchmark where both company's use their best AA technology in their drivers.

Running tests without AA or with 3 year old games are nothing but fluff tests to make one card or the other look better in a limited situation.
 
These are ALL insightful answers and should provide enough to make a decision.

I think the 280 is at MAX a $399 card, if not $379 or even $349. Unless priced accordingly, I am not sure why anyone would buy one (although I am sure some will). The argument that "I have to go 280 since my board won't do Crossfire" becomes a red herring since few will also have the 1000-1200 watt PSU reportedly necessary for SLI'd 280s.

Unless you need one NOW, I would wait just a couple more weeks to: 1) see what the 4870x2 looks like/does to 4870 pricing; 2) see what progress is made on drivers/bio/heat issues; and 3) see what kind of performance is gained with new factory OC/heatsink models. For example, some are now hitting: http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8310&Itemid=34#filterform

Good luck!
 
gtx280 is fine at 499$; if you don't want the top performing Nvidia card then you simply buy something else - i've said this before: the higher you go on the performance scale the less your dollar value means, and its always been that way.

Now here is where things get tricky: with AMD's proposed "advanced crossfire interconnect" that they are implimenting on the 4870x2 the question begs to be asked: "Will the 4870x2 outperform the 4870 Crossfire?" Because this would be the first time a high end gpu actually outperformed a combination of lower end gpus - at least in my memory.
 


I dunno, judging by this, i'd be willing to bet 2 4870 would beat it, so the 4870X2 might do pretty good... (given the fact that crysis may or may not scale well.)
Also neither company have their "best" AA tech out, that'll come with new drivers

crysis1.png


*Edit* Though it is true the results are different in many games

 
It is said to be 15% faster at least. Thats from AMD. I cant find the link, but its true. Anything is worth what you want it to be worth, if youre willing to buy it. Comparable worth is something totally different. And we are talking comparisons here are we not? Theyre both high end, both gfx cards etc.
 


Another question.


Does your mobo have a single PCI-E slot or 2?

What is the chipset?
 



Its already been shown that 2, 4870s in Crossfire are capable of outperforming a gtx280 by a small margin; and this is absolutely nothing unusual jonyb222 as we have seen this numerous times already with 8800 GTS g92 gpus in SLI beating out the 9800 GX2

Or crossfired 3870s beating out the 3870x2, etc

You don't buy a top end GPU with the expectation of performance per dollar; if anything i'd say you buy a top end gpu with the "buy one, get one later" approach in mind.

Look, I wouldn't recommend a gtx280 to anyone unless they were willing to throw cost considerations out the window; but that still doesn't mean to say that the 4870 can beat it in any benchmark that isn't pure fluff. Crysis is a good example, but also you have to compare things like UT3 with 16Q AA on a GTX280 vs UT3 with 24x CSAA on an AMD 4870
 



I would very much expect the 4870x2 to hammer the 4870 in games where traditional crossfire has not scaled well.

In games like COD4, where crossfire has virtually perfect scaling, the x2 may be a bit slower due to throttling for heat.



The R700 is designed to exchange data much earlier along the drawing process than crossfire (or SLI) - which will result in it being much more akin to 1 GPU consisting of 2 dies than 2 GPUs of 2 dies on 1 card.



The best anology I have is, R700 is more like pukka SMP or PVM - the card is told to draw a frame, and it uses the two GPUs in parallel for the whole series of calcs, whereas R680 is a conventional AFR/Scissors/checker approach to SLI/Crossfire.

So R700 has 1600 SPUs, not 800x2 SPUs. If you get my meaning.
 
Wait for the G200b. It will probably be highly clocked, say a core around 800MHz. It'll also be significantly cooler and less expensive. The X2 looks also to be a great contester but I'm sure the G200b will be faster. Then again, these are just speculations.
Wait and see but do NOT buy a new GPU today...

/Andreas
 
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