[SOLVED] Which of these cases

barnyard80

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Which of these cases would be best for a build with 3900x, passive 1030GT GPU and Noctua DH15 heatsink?

Antec P101 Silent
Meshify C
Corsair 275R
Cooler Master Silencio S600

?
 
Solution
That's comparing apples to oranges. Totally different in terms of cores, hyperthreads, ACTUAL TDP and also there is a lot more to it than just that. What motherboard and chipset are used can be factors, what the VRM configuration on the motherboard is, etc.

Strictly speaking off of pure TDP performance though, I'd say the U12S is too small. It might "work" and would certainly be better than the stock cooler, but honestly, that's not saying much. The U12S IS a good cooler, but not the one you want to use for this CPU I don't think.

Now, the U14S on the other hand, performs within about two degrees of the D15 in most reviews, is MUCH smaller, being only about half the size since it only has a single finstack, and is pretty capable...
Either the P101 or the Meshify C would be fine. Honestly, for your specs just about any case that has at least two front intakes, a rear exhaust, a top exhaust and support for CPU coolers that are 165mm or taller, would work fine. It's a big CPU, but with only a GT 1030 in there it's not like there are major interference problems likely.

Personally, I think the Meshify C is the better case and the better brand. Fractal design is like EVGA when it comes to customer support. They tend to go above and beyond if or when you need them to.
 

barnyard80

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By "your specs", do you mean that because I have a small passive GPU, it won't get that hot anyway? Or will the Noctua be good a keeping it cool. Sorry if these are novice questions. I'm not an experienced builder.
 
It won't get that hot anyway, at least not AS hot as it would with a big CPU AND a big graphics card, plus LENGTH of the card and interference with drive cages and things of that nature, won't be an issue either. That Noctua cooler WILL do a great job keeping it cool, but I hope you ACTUALLY realize how huge that cooler is? It is literally one of the biggest coolers on the market. It's a very good cooler though, and for that CPU, if you are going to run an air cooler, that one and maybe three or four others are the only ones with a chance of managing those thermals.
 

barnyard80

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That looks interesting. Do the gaps that you see here get clogged with dust?


noctua_nh_d15s_3_5.jpg
 
ALL gaps, in ALL coolers, get clogged with dust. There is no getting around that. It's just a simple fact of life with an air cooler or a radiator. It WILL need to be periodically cleaned. Period.

You can mitigate it SOMEWHAT, and drastically reduce the problem, by choosing a case that has intake filters, and it helps a pretty fair amount, but it's not going to eliminate it completely unless you 100% seal off every other possible entry of air into the system except through the filter, and even then you'll only eliminate about 98% of it. Some even smaller dust particles will find their way through the filter. Just plan on cleaning it every month or two.

It's a good idea to buy a stock of compressed air in the can or a small air compressor and air nozzle for this purpose. Don't use a vacuum, ever, or you're likely to zap something with the static electricity you create.

Personally, while Phaaze and I agree on many things, I disagree on the idea that the NH-D15s is as good as the original. I'm definitely in the camp of two fans per heatsink stack is a good thing because it pretty much completely eliminates dead spots or reversion leaks, that reduce cooling efficiency. It also helps to improve static pressure efficiency on fans, even ones that already have good static pressure performance.

But if we're being honest, a big heatsink like this in a smaller case DOES tend to be a real PITA anytime you have to work inside the case in that area of the board so be aware of it ahead of time. A good 280 or 320mm AIO cooler might be something to consider as well. I'm usually in favor of air, because air coolers tend to last pretty much indefinitely, but that CPU requires substantial cooling and if you're not the type that's going to be capable of removing that heatsink to replace the paste every couple of years or are not capable of removing it if you have to in order to get to something, you might want to opt for an AIO cooler that is going to be MUCH easier to work around and replace, which you will likely have to do every three to five years when the pump fails because the pumps on most AIO systems are not replaceable.
 

Phaaze88

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That's comparing apples to oranges. Totally different in terms of cores, hyperthreads, ACTUAL TDP and also there is a lot more to it than just that. What motherboard and chipset are used can be factors, what the VRM configuration on the motherboard is, etc.

Strictly speaking off of pure TDP performance though, I'd say the U12S is too small. It might "work" and would certainly be better than the stock cooler, but honestly, that's not saying much. The U12S IS a good cooler, but not the one you want to use for this CPU I don't think.

Now, the U14S on the other hand, performs within about two degrees of the D15 in most reviews, is MUCH smaller, being only about half the size since it only has a single finstack, and is pretty capable considering I'm running one on my highly overclocked i7-6700k. Granted, that's only a four core part, but at overclocked TDP it's probably hitting just about right where the 3900x sits at it's stock XFR2 boost configuration. Even PBO should be possible. Not saying this is the cooler you should get, but it IS an option.

This is my list, you can pretty well look at reviews for specific models and get a general idea for yourself what is what in terms of size versus performance. Straight up I'll tell you that IMO the two best coolers out there that are not extra wide finstacks or have two finstacks, are the Noctua NH-U14S and Thermalright True Spirit 140 direct. After those, you pretty much have to move up to a cooler that has a much wider finstack and might as well be a dual finstack, or one that IS a dual finstack.

None of the extra wide or dual finstack coolers are particularly easy to install or R&R, so if that could be a problem down the road for you I'd stick to one of the two I just mentioned or an AIO, which are pretty easy and just about anybody can install or remove them. Even guys with four thumbs so to speak.

Below is my list of preferred CPU AIR coolers, also known as Heatsink fans (HSF).

Do not look here for recommendations on water/liquid cooling solutions. There are none to be found.

A good air cooler works just as well for most applications. There are very few instances I can think of where an AIO will work better than a good air cooler, and even fewer where an AIO will outperform an air cooler if you are willing to buy the right air cooler and then level up by adding some even higher end fans to it.

Loops leak. Heatsinks don't. Pumps fail, FAR more often and usually with far worse consequences, than fans do.

And unlike a heatsink fan assembly, when your pump fails for 99% of AIO coolers, you will be replacing the whole thing, for another 100+ dollars, rather than just a 25 dollar investment for the failure of a fan. Especially since I've rarely seen dual fan coolers have both fans fail at the same time, but even if you factor in two fan failures that's still only about fifty bucks compared to the 100+ it will cost to replace an AIO with a failed pump. And you WILL have a failed pump on most AIO coolers within three years of purchase. Seeing one last longer than five years is possible, but it is not particularly common and we often, very often, see them fail at around the 3 year mark. Sometimes much sooner.

Pump quality and longevity is an area that needs GREAT improvement before AIO coolers will become a primary recommendation for me.

I see a lot of AIO coolers leak and damage hardware as well.

Certainly there are situations where an AIO is called for, or even preferred, but those are MOSTLY aesthetic considerations, because let's face it, a build with an AIO or custom loop generally "looks" a lot cleaner than one that has a big heatsink taking up half the real estate inside your case. When that is the case, I have recommendations for those as well, but I don't offer them unless somebody is specifically asking to go that route.[/B]

They are basically listed in order of preference, from top to bottom. To some degree that preference is based on known performance on similarly overclocked configurations, but not entirely. There are likely a couple of units that are placed closer to the top not because they offer purely better performance than another cooler which is below it, but potentially due to a variety of reasons.

One model might be placed higher than another with the same or similar performance, but has quieter or higher quality fans. It may have the same performance but a better warranty. Long term quality may be higher. It may be less expensive in some cases. Maybe it performs slightly worse, but has quieter fans and a better "fan pitch". Some fans with equal decibel levels do not "sound" like they are the same as the specific pitch heard from one fan might be less annoying than another.

In any case, these are not "tiered" and are not a 100% be all, end all ranking. They are simply MY preference when looking at coolers for a build or when making recommendations. Often, which HSF gets chosen depends on what is on this list and fits the budget or is priced right at the time due to a sale or rebate. Hopefully it will help you and you can rest assured that every cooler listed here is a model that to some degree or other is generally a quality unit which is a lot more likely to be worth the money spent on it than on many other models out there that might look to be a similarly worthwhile investment.

Certainly there are a great many other very good coolers out there, but these are models which are usually available to most anybody building a system or looking for a cooler, regardless of what part of the world they might live in. As always, professional reviews are usually an absolutely essential part of the process of finding a cooler so if you are looking at a model not listed here, I would highly recommend looking at at least two or three professional reviews first.

If you cannot find two reviews of any given cooler, it is likely either too new to have been reviewed yet or it sucked, and nobody wanted to buy one in order to review it plus the manufacturer refused to send samples out to the sites that perform reviews because they knew it would likely get bad publicity.

IMO, nobody out there is making better fans, overall, than Noctua, followed pretty closely by Thermalright. So if you intend to match case fans to the same brand on your HSF, those are pretty hard to beat. Of course, Corsair has it's Maglev fans, and those are pretty damn good too, but since they don't make CPU air cooling products, only AIO water coolers, they cannot join the party.


Noctua NH-D14 (Replace stock fans with NF-A14 industrialPPC 2000rpm)
Noctua NH-D15/D15 SE-AM4
Noctua NH-D14 (With original fans)
Thermalright Silver arrow IB-E Extreme
Phanteks PH-TC14PE (BK,BL, OR or RD)
Cryorig R1 Ultimate or Universal
Thermalright Legrand Macho RT
Thermalright Macho X2
Deepcool Assassin III
Scythe Ninja 5
Thermalright Macho rev. C
Thermalright Macho rev.B
Thermalright ARO-M14G (Ryzen only)
Thermalright Macho direct
Scythe Mugen 5 rev.B
Deepcool Assassin II
Be Quiet Dark rock Pro 4
Noctua NH-U14S
Thermalright true spirit 140 Direct
FSP Windale 6
Scythe Mugen max
BeQuiet dark rock (3 or 4)
Thermalright Macho SBM
Cryorig H5
Noctua NH-U12S
Arctic freezer 34 eSports Duo
Phanteks PH-TC14S
Phanteks PH-TC12DX (Any)
Cryorig H7
Deepcool Gammaxx 400
Cooler Master Hyper 212 (EVO, X, RGB. I'd only recommend this cooler if no other good aftermarket models are available to you.)



It may not be obvious, but is probably worth mentioning, that not all cooler models will fit all CPU sockets as aftermarket coolers generally require an adapter intended for use with that socket. Some coolers that fit an AMD platform might not fit a later AMD platform, or an Intel platform. Often these coolers come with adapters for multiple types of platforms but be sure to verify that a specific cooler WILL work with your platform before purchasing one and finding out later that it will not.
 
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Solution
Welp...
There's also THIS guy: https://noctua.at/en/nh-u12a


Noctua says it will be ok: https://noctua.at/en/cpu/AMD_Ryzen_9_3900X
And don't get me wrong, I'm NOT saying the D15S isn't a good cooler or isn't a good option, it definitely IS. I just think that if you're going to put a dual finstack cooler in you might as well have multiple fans on it so it can "be all it can be". LOL.

The U12A is a very good cooler too, especially for it's size, but I don't think it's as good as the U14S or the True spirit direct 140, which are both small enough to not be a giant hassle for installing or working around, although compared to a top down stock style cooler, any of these are going to be a system shock for somebody who's never used one before.
 
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Phaaze88

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Dat copy-paste... LOL!
It's still legit though!

And don't get me wrong, I'm NOT saying the D15S isn't a good cooler or isn't a good option, it definitely IS. I just think that if you're going to put a dual finstack cooler in you might as well have multiple fans on it so it can "be all it can be". LOL.
Aye. To add a 2nd fan on the D15S puts it right on the heels of the U12A's price... why bother with the big ol' dual heatsink anymore... U_U

The U12A is a very good cooler too, especially for it's size, but I don't think it's as good as the U14S or the True spirit direct 140, which are both small enough to not be a giant hassle for installing or working around, although compared to a top down stock style cooler, any of these are going to be a system shock for somebody who's never used one before.
Nah, this is just one of my 'moments' again. I've got a huge e-boner for big 'sinks'.
 
I sure wish Noctua would hurry up and release a 140mm version of the NF-F12A fans, and then slap two of those in a black chromax version on a redesigned U14S heatsink that is just slightly offset away from the memory about a quarter inch. That would make for the best single finstack cooler out there. I think we will see this happen at some point, but when is another story.

I have to say, having recently used the Thermalright True Spirit 140 direct on three builds recently, I was VERY impressed with the performance and if you haven't seen reviews of this cooler, which is tiny when compared to almost any other 140mm air coolers, it's a winner. Significantly less expensive than the U14S, normally (Maybe not currently since everything is out of stock everywhere), and some reviews show it having "almost" D15 level performance.

AdcKBXY.png


It's also one of the quietest coolers out there, at only 35db at full speed 1400 rpm operation.
 

Phaaze88

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if you haven't seen reviews of this cooler, which is tiny when compared to almost any other 140mm air coolers, it's a winner. Significantly less expensive than the U14S, normally (Maybe not currently since everything is out of stock everywhere), and some reviews show it having "almost" D15 level performance.
I have a problem with how some reviewers do cooler tests: they're not actually pushing the coolers.
You can't see what the cooler is really capable of until you push it to the limit.
Thermalright rates the True Spirit 140 Direct for 200w. That Tweaktown review used an overclocked 6700K in the test... the True Spirit can't break a sweat on that.
Those charts are misleading for most of the coolers on those lists. It's right there with the Le Grand Macho RT(320w) and NH-15... something's wrong there, and it's simply to do with the load test.
One simply can't 'soak' those beefy coolers on a 6700K.

I'm not saying the cooler isn't fine for the 3900X, but misleading tests/results like that can have people thinking the larger coolers are pointless.
If the old me had seen that... I definitely wouldn't be using this NH-D15S right now.
 

barnyard80

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Darkbreeze, thanks for your epic posts on this subject.

I'm thinking that for my novice expertise, perhaps I should get the U14S. That is £20 cheaper than the D15.

I can put that towards some of the cost of a Fractal Define 7 (best case 2020 according to THG!), which is £60 more than the Meshify C. That case is bigger than the Meshify C, and will hopefully be more dust resistant (please correct me if I'm wrong!).

So making my life easier with a smaller heat sink and larger case will cost £40 extra.

I'm now wondering if I should get a cheaper SSD that is just as good. I was initially thinking of Samsung 970 Evo 1TB. Are any of the other SSD's from this retailer worth considering instead (I want them to build it for me, so will need to buy the SSD from them)?
 
I have a problem with how some reviewers do cooler tests: they're not actually pushing the coolers.
You can't see what the cooler is really capable of until you push it to the limit.
Thermalright rates the True Spirit 140 Direct for 200w. That Tweaktown review used an overclocked 6700K in the test... the True Spirit can't break a sweat on that.
Those charts are misleading for most of the coolers on those lists. It's right there with the Le Grand Macho RT(320w) and NH-15... something's wrong there, and it's simply to do with the load test.
One simply can't 'soak' those beefy coolers on a 6700K.

I'm not saying the cooler isn't fine for the 3900X, but misleading tests/results like that can have people thinking the larger coolers are pointless.
If the old me had seen that... I definitely wouldn't be using this NH-D15S right now.
The larger coolers aren't pointless, regardless of what the reviews say, and I don't believe that IS what the reviews are saying. The larger coolers distance themselves when overclocking to high levels OR when using a CPU that is very high TDP, or both. The 3900x however is only a 105w part, that's only 10w higher than the 6700k and the 6700k was overclocked to 4.6Ghz in that review, as well as running 4 DIMMs which tends to significantly increase core temperatures, so I'm quite sure that much like my CPU it is running more like 140w or higher, especially since the 95w rating of the 6700k is only at base clock settings, not boost, not overclocked, and certainly not at 4.6Ghz. Any slim cooler that can handle that and keep the CPU under 80°C with a Prime Small FFT load is aces in my book, no matter whether it can match any other cooler or not.
 

barnyard80

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Interesting that you should suggest the MX500 as I already have one!;)

Is it basically a bit pointless to get nvme ssds, with performance gains being unnoticeable to humans? To be honest, I don't currently work with large files. And don't work with lots of small files either.
 

Phaaze88

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Is it basically a bit pointless to get nvme ssds, with performance gains being unnoticeable to humans? To be honest, I don't currently work with large files. And don't work with lots of small files either.
Depends on the workload. The fancier models are a waste of money if you're not at least doing the above^- that, or you just want to spend on the more expensive ones anyway. It is your money after all.
For everyone else, just get the more affordable ones, whether it's Sata SSD or M.2. Go too low, though, and you land in Dram-less SSD territory.
These things are cheap, and so is the performance; falling below even that of a HDD as they fill up. WD Green, Kingston A400, and Crucial BX500 are a few examples.
 
If lags while loading game files, between levels, maps, textures, etc., some kind of "stall" while things are loading from your current SSD (Which probably ISN'T the case) isn't happening, then for gaming there isn't a lot of benefit to switching to an NVME drive.

Considering you are using a GT 1030, I doubt you are doing much gaming, unless it's extremely casual and very low resource driven. It's always possible though that your GT 1030 is simply a placeholder for the time being, so I always try to approach it from both angles.

If this is primarily a NON-gaming machine, then it FULLY depends on what you are doing it with. For browsing, light office applications, edit a few photos, not going to see any difference really either.

If you are transferring to or from other NVME drives, it will be very fast. If you are READING from applications or files that reside ON that NVME drive, and you are using professional applications or are a graphics or video artist working with very large and complex projects that must load and save to or from that drive, not some secondary drive, THEN it could be a HUGE benefit to you.

SO use case is key.

It's probably also worth mentioning that the Crucial P1 1TB is almost exactly the same price as the MX500 currently, so if you HAVE an empty M.2 slot that supports it, and if using it won't cash in on any of your existing SATA headers that are NEEDED because of lane limitations, it might be worth having simply because it WILL be snappier in some things and it will also reduce the amount of cabling required inside your build. For the same price, hard to imagine why you WOULDN'T go that route to be honest.
 
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barnyard80

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Thanks for that Phaaze88. Is your knowledge from personal experience? Or are there any good guides out there? I could not find any direct comparisons myself. The closest I could a test of the U14S TR version.