which one QUICK before its over (help vga)

chitocobo

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me and my friends are having a contest to see what computer we can make with 500 bucks.. as in a gaming computer.. this means we are overclocking alot and using lots of fans and such.. anyway ive decided that for a vid card im gonna get a geforce 4 mx440..

msi geforce 4 mx440-T8X
Asus geforce 4 mx440-8x

both use pasive cooling.. take a look at www.memoryexpress.com ..i dont have much time so i cant buy online and these are my choice... im looking at overclocking and many reviews say that the msi one isnt great cuz of the slower memory NS.. i cant seem to find anything on the asus one.. also.. if i have some extra buck lying around then what is a good vga cooler for OCing it.

i only have like 80 bucks left for the card so its my only choice.. if i win then there is a much bigger reqard for me.. and so far the others got bad cpu choices and my 1.6 duron had clocked very far (only held back by the pci.. dun want to go past 38)

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TheRod

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You can get a much better Video Card for that price!!!

Check www.pricewatch.com :
- GeForce4 TI 4200 128Megs lowest price is 78$
- GeForce4 TI 4200 64Megs lowest price is 62$

Both cards will be much better in games. Check <A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031229/index.html" target="_new">THG VGA Chart III</A> and compare price/performance ratio of the cards you can buy.

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chitocobo

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did you bother to read the post.. i said that i dont have time for that.. and im talking canadain bucks :p

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phial

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i can sell you my TI4200 for 90 bux ;P

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scottchen

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The MSI one has better overclockability with the 4.0ns Samsung ram, Asus has better warranty. You should be able to find the MSI card for under 40 dollars canadian, and the Asus under 60 if you look hard enough.

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DonnieDarko

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only have like 80 bucks left for the card so its my only choice.. if i win then there is a much bigger reqard for me.. and so far the others got bad cpu choices and my 1.6 duron had clocked very far (only held back by the pci.. dun want to go past 38)
Umm why di dyou go with the duron? I would of at least went with a athlon xp 2000+ for only about 10$ more. Plus you could overclock the crap out of that thing with the right cooling. But you would still be held back by your mobo since you said you don't have an pci/agp lock. What mobo did you get btw? well post everything you got.


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cleeve

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The 9200SE sucks... but for $85, it's better than the MX440.

At least you get pixel and vertex shaders. I doubt there's a speed difference.

________________
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<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>4,876</b>
 

chitocobo

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lol yah right..
radeon 9200se - 60 bucks - 3700
msi geforce 4 - 70 bucks - 6800
asus geforce 4 - 80 bucks - ????

these are basic scores i have seen.. im a huge ati fan and am baised toward them but the geforce4 mx440 is way better than the crappy 9200se.. my integrated unicrome3 probobly has a better chance than the 9200se..
(please prove me wrong as id love an ati :p)
p.s. actually.. im not biased at all.. its just that ati has better cards this round...

EDIT: those are 2001se scores not 2003.. just incase you mistake em

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cefoskey

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so exactly how do you know which one of you "wins"?

Are you using nothing but 3dmark2001? That will make a big difference as to what is a "better" card and thus a "better" gaming system (no dx9).

You want to know what card to get? Go buy a Radeon 9100. Ive owned 3 cards based on the 8500. The 9100 is the rebadged 8500, you can get it for less than $70. It will kill that Geforce 4MX.

"Who is General Failure, and why is he reading my drive?"
P4 3.0 HT, Intel D865GBF, 512MB Crucial PC3200 DDR, WD 36GB Raptor 10,000RPM, BBA Radeon 9600PRO, SB Audigy, Hauppage WinTV
 
I live in Calgary (home of Memory Express, used them alot, used ot also use Techtronics).

Check out Computer Surplus in the N.E. beside MemoryExpress. You should be able to pick up an R9000 or R9000PRO for that price range. I know they had an FX5600(not sure which type, nor the price) this past weekend when I bought a PCMCIA card there. That check there before going to that Memory Express.

The thing is WHAT are your test parameters. If you are only testing old game and at low res the MX will do well, at higher res and newer games, even an R9200SE/FX5200 may do better. Also notice that memoryexpress has an R9600SE for 109, and it's core likely OC's like a mofo, but the memory will be crap to mediocre and crippled 64bit, so it depends on your test settings.

Also check out <A HREF="http://" target="_new">IC Computers</A>, they have relatively cheap FX5200s and R9200s, and a much better selection than MemoryExpress.

<A HREF="http://www.iccomputers.ca/icdesktops/front.htm" target="_new">http://www.iccomputers.ca/icdesktops/front.htm</A>

Too Bad Techtronics is gone cause they had alot of white box oem stuff for cheap.

Here's a quick rundown for you from digit-life in a few 'older' games;

<A HREF="http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/over2003/index.html" target="_new">http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/over2003/index.html</A>


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lol yah right..
radeon 9200se - 60 bucks - 3700
msi geforce 4 - 70 bucks - 6800
asus geforce 4 - 80 bucks - ????
So it's a Bungholio test, that's different.

Also it's not a GF4, it's simply an MX, calling it a GF4 gives it too much credit and makes it sound like it's anywhere near the GF4ti league, when really it's just a GF2 at heart.

Look at the review I posted, it depends on your tests, and while in some cases the 440MX will outperform, in others it won't perform AT ALL because it doesn't have the hardware. That's why it helps to specify your test methods.

If all you wanted was bungholios, then your Duron was a terrible choice, as for mistaking them it's obvious which they are, and it's obvious that's it's not a 'gaming' rig so much as a benchmarking rig.


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entium

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Also it's not a GF4, it's simply an MX, calling it a GF4 gives it too much credit and makes it sound like it's anywhere near the GF4ti league, when really it's just a GF2 at heart.



The gf 4 mx series are the same as the ti's just with the programmable vs and ps. There is one mx version of the gf 4 with programmable vs and ps don't remember the model number but of course its the highest priced one.

1
 

phial

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lol dude, the gf4mx460 was the highest model, and its only different in clock speeds. trust me


and your also wrong that GF4mx's are based off the GF4ti series. ist been shown by a number of sites that its basically a higher clocked GF2

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I'm not going to go into it, just finished one of those, but I don't agree. If you have evidence otherwise ok, but everyting I've read sofar up to and including the MX4000, shows the contrary.

But that's just what I've seen so far.


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entium

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acctually take a look at the spec, tried to find them on nV site but they removed them. A fried of my bought the 440mx which did have the ahaders.

Yes benchmarking wise they suck, Not disagreeing with that one!


Because of the lack of shader support the cpu now takes a huge work load.

When ATi and nV say programming for shaders imporves performance to a certain degree it does.

Pretty much the mx lines are crippled counterparts of the high end line

Ok yeah they don't have the infinite 2 engines
 

phial

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the GF4MX supported some vertex shader stuff in software, but thats all. and yea, they have "shaders"



the original Radeon256, and GF2 has "shaders" too :)

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entium

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true nV being stupid didn't include them in hardware and cheating its customers again!


If I remember correctly even the Ti series had some support issues of fragment shader for Ogl (fragement shaders are the same as pixel shaders in Dx)
 
Just a little info.

<A HREF="http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2002q4/gf4-8x/index.x?pg=1" target="_new">Tech Reports's MX440 review</A>

The majority were NV17 cores, but the MX440 8X was an NV18 core, but it still didn't get additional shader functionality.

<A HREF="http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/200210041/nv18_nv28-01.html" target="_new">Looking at LARS' review it has a chart of the two falvours of chips, NV17/18.</A>

And of course our usual standy list;

<A HREF="http://users.erols.com/chare/video.htm" target="_new">http://users.erols.com/chare/video.htm</A>


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entium

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ah yes that was what I was looking for. Find anything on the mx 460? Positive one of them had them.

Good call grape.

here it is, it has vertex shaders 1.1 support

<A HREF="http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MzI4" target="_new">http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MzI4</A>

If this guy is buying and 80 buck card why not that fx 5200?
 

phial

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it says "limited". its not real hardware support, and the NV17 had it too i believe...


and no i dont think Nv was ripping people off.. its everyones choice to buy what you want. either you are informed or you make a stupid choice (some people can be informed and STILL make stupid choices) and theres nothing illegal against providing stupid choices to the general public because most of them, are, quite, stupid.

hey if i could sell some useless novelty and make millions, i would do it.



anyways, your probably more right than i am in this , sinse you actually program around these cards, and i am a here hobbiest if even that

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entium

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well it kinda was, at that time dell was selling nV cards with thier systems, and they were very ambigious about the graphics card. Maybe not nV's fault but definitly marketing took its toll.
 

phial

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yea, it was kinda. people thought they were paying for one thing, and getting something different. again this isnt uncommon heh which is sad. intel is far more sinister

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(some people can be informed and STILL make stupid choices)
I'd say that goes for the FX5600U Rev.2 users, where we all thought, wow, that card has come out and is clobbering the R9600PRo, and as the newer games released, suddenly it wasn't doing so well. And of course there are those who upgraded from an R8500 to an R9000! OOooops! Different core, with sometimes better freq., but definitely a step back.

However those who got the FX5200 after selling their GF4ti, still deserve our derision, and so to those who recently bought and R9800SE as an upgrade from and R9500Pro/R9700/R9700PRO.

Anywhoo, time to go home.

C'Ya!


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