"Which Religion Do You Follow" discussion page.

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randomizer

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If it's not "my god is bigger than your god" then it would be "my territory isn't big enough." Human greed fuels everything (heck, our economy runs on greed). Religion gives a nice paint job to greed and makes people think they are fighting for something other than another person's bank balance. Now that's not necessarily an issue with religion itself, but with the people teaching it. After all, much of the wars that involved, say, the Roman Catholic Church, happened during a time period where only a few could read and write, and therefore they simply followed the instructions of the elite few with those skills. If I tell you that it is god's will that all people of another religion must be put to death, and you can't read your latin Bible to check, plus you've been brought up in a culture where I am considered trustworthy, chances are you'll believe me.
 

B_I_O_M

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Because I've never heard of a Hindu becoming an atheist. Granted, it's not it like it doesn't happen, but it's one of those "this doesn't happen often" situations. But that also brings up my next question: where did you grow up. Obviously societal factors take part in your education, and that education most definitely influenced your "turn" to atheism. (I use quotation marks because turn is really just a misnomer.)

If it's not "my god is bigger than your god" then it would be "my territory isn't big enough." Human greed fuels everything (heck, our economy runs on greed). Religion gives a nice paint job to greed and makes people think they are fighting for something other than another person's bank balance. Now that's not necessarily an issue with religion itself, but with the people teaching it. After all, much of the wars that involved, say, the Roman Catholic Church, happened during a time period where only a few could read and write, and therefore they simply followed the instructions of the elite few with those skills. If I tell you that it is god's will that all people of another religion must be put to death, and you can't read your latin Bible to check, plus you've been brought up in a culture where I am considered trustworthy, chances are you'll believe me.
Yes, greed is a large player in history, and even in every person. However, I think that the greed has been enhanced because of religion. Many would believe that it was their "God-given right" to have this land, or that it must be "purified" (a.k.a kill everyone who doesn't agree with me). Now, I will concede that there would have been wars waged for land, but not on the "Holy Fighter" side, but the "I'm hungry, and they have grub" side, but definitely not to the extent that religious wars took place. And yes, propagandizing was very common back then, and even is to this day. Unfortunate, really.
 

B_I_O_M

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Should we clasify Apple as a religious institution Sounds pretty appropriate.
 
A discussion on religion could be viewed as a group of closed minded individuals butting heads together trying to persuade the others they're the only one that's right.

That's usually why these type threads turn south, simply because it usually turns into a complaint section of everything they don't agree with concerning some other persons religious beliefs.

If you think about it, how could a thread like this actually do any good, is it a search for converts, or someone looking for something to believe in, or just a good argument with a volatile subject.

Could also be a setup attack usually aimed at Christianity, it's probably one of those topics that it's best to agree to disagree and just go your way.

I've seen many threads like this at THGF get extremely nasty, especially when the ganging up starts, well for the record I Am a Christian, and nothing any of you have to say contrary, will be changing that.

So actually, what is there to discuss.

 


That is definitely your prerogative, but this is the Religion Section, and it is allowed in this section.

If this were the direct technological sections I'd close it myself, but it isn't.
 

randomizer

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Having taken part in multiple online discussions/debates/flame wars on religion I can say with confidence that the net value of such a thread is that you know which religion people follow (if any) and you gain a bit of extra insight into that religion. That's about it. Nobody is ever going to be converted via a hardware forum.
 

B_I_O_M

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Honestly, a lot. As for myself, I enjoy learning about different opinions and views of the universe. While no one will convert me to their religion, someone might just be able to "enlighten" me to the world. Unfortunately, I'm not everyone, and a lot of trolls will come in and absolutely destroy a thread just to get a laugh or two. However, if we all manage to keep calm and remember that everyone has a unique mind set about religion, we will all come out better people.

In a lot of ways, I hope that threads like these can bring out some tolerance in people that normally wouldn't be there. We are all here for a specific purpose, and we all have that common ground. With that starting point, many can start conversing back and forward like normal friends, and maybe even become friends. We will discover that the other person has some hobbies that we absolutely despise, yet we'll still have this common ground to base a working relationship off of. If this trend were to work in 2 out of 5 people, so much good would come to this world.

And Randomizer is right, threads like these TEACH, which is something we can all do with. Just imagine what the world would be like if we all had a little bit of understanding, and what that would do to intolerance, hatred, murder, etc. It'd be pretty sweet.

And again, this reply was made on my phone, so some punctuation marks might not have come through.
 

elel

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I see that the discussion has not been idle while I was busy. I'll just take this post to state where I'm coming from. I am a Christian. I believe the apostle's creed, though I don't believe that it was inspired. Like most people posting here, I don't expect to change my beliefs based on this thread. This is not because I blindly accept what I believe, but because I believe that it is rationally, logically and experientally sound.

So that's myself. I don't see anything which I want to pick up just now, so I'll drop in as the discussion moves along or as someone asks me a question.
 

jsc

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With less than 200 posts over more than three years, I, for one, will not miss you.
 

JAYDEEJOHN

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I can give one great example where greed was used against religion, to stir people up, cause great hatred, resulting in millions of lives lost, and it wasnt in the name of God, and to this day, is still considered the costliest amount in human life, some of the ghastliest horrors in inhumanity as well....

I'll start with one name, Hitler

So, in reference, Id say random is correct, by and far
 

RazberyBandit

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I follow no religion at all. I don't know if that makes me atheist, agnostic, or a combination of the two. I don't really care, though. Those are terms people who follow religion would label me with, while I label them with none.

I'm just a free-thinking human who gathers and ingests information, then makes decisions for himself. I do this instead of accepting even the simple word of someone else as fact. I question things, even the supernatural, on my own.

I've gone to some churches (Christian ones) and had discussions with representatives of them, as well as had detailed discussions with members of both the Jewish and Muslim faiths. There was always one thing they all had in common when I questioned them. That was the use of the word "because."

They'd say things like, "because that's what The Bible says," or "because that's what <insert deity/prophet> believed and taught." My reply? "Were you there? Did they say it directly to you or are these writings the recollection of someone else? If hearsay cannot stand within a court of law, how is it hearsay stands within religion?" Upon asking questions like those, I'm often quickly dismissed, even by the most fervent of religious "recruiters" as I call them.

There are valuable teachings within every religion - morality. But, do you really need a religion to tell you it's wrong to do harm to others? To steal? I didn't need religion to teach me that, but I had very good parents who instilled within me a great deal of morality that wasn't based on religious teachings, but instead on their experiences in life itself.

Isn't life itself the greatest teacher?
 

JAYDEEJOHN

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And here is where those who cant handle or question their own faith comes in.

Every religion accepts their words in their holy writ as coming from God.
Accepting this isnt an easy thing to do, as razbery just said, as it requires faith. As Ive grown older, Ive changed my views in my beliefs, and am not affraid to challenge them today in the most part, as indeed, life is a great teacher, as well as God, to which I always have an ear and an eye on Him in my life
 


As a Christian myself it's easy to understand the responses you get from Christian churches, my relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ did not take place in a church, the Christian church itself is like an amoeba constantly dividing and replicating, mainly from disagreements within the church (because) they've added a set of mans rules over the top of Gods rules, and disagree with the ones they either choose to follow or not to follow, so the church splits in two and another pops up thinking they have it right.

So now there is two churches thinking both are right, and the original church came from the same amoeba process, the same thing has happened to the Holy Bible since it's inception, its been written and rewritten over and over simply because the new authors self need was there to clarify the understanding, completely discounting the fact that the understanding comes through the Power of the Holy Spirit.
 

JAYDEEJOHN

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I look at it this way

Each church has a peice of the truth within it, put all pieces together, and you have the body of the truth.

I agree Ryan, and as I said earlier, theres very few things I wont challenge in my faith, as I believe God wants me to come to the truth
 

randomizer

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That is a good question to ask. An "evangelist" from any religion should at least know some history about the source of their religion. I can't speak for the Qu'ran (which isn't really that old as far as I know), but the Bible has been compiled from many sources, some complete and others fragmented. There are some parts of questionable authenticity (relative to the rest), and at least in the NIV these have been marked as such. As far as I can remember from a discussion about this very topic last week, one of these passages (which is only half a sentence that explicitly refers to the Trinity without using that word, but others are much larger) was not found in any records older than the 16th century. Given that it should have been written in the 1st century AD, it's hard to imagine that no copies of it older than 400-500 years have been found. 99.9% of the New Testament has been found in multiple records, some at least 1500 years old, but there's those few annoying verses that just haven't had their reliability established.

EDIT: Man, how long did i leave this page open?
 

RazberyBandit

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Discussions like these sometimes leave me wondering if the right term to apply to myself is cynical - a term not very religious in nature at all. But, if this were the days of the Spanish Inquisition, the term Heretic would be flown at me like monkey poo at the zoo.

I suppose the biggest issue I've had with religion lies within the way it's often so forcefully pushed upon people, especially the meek, the poor, and the unquestionably impressionable young. My response to that has always been that if the teachers of religion had no questions within themselves regarding the validity of their belief(s), there would be no need to push their belief(s) because the truth would be divinely obvious to those they attempt to pass them onto.

As I said previously, I'm not one to blindly accept much of anything, especially something with no obvious answer - something that relies more on faith than it does fact. I believe anyone who does the opposite lacks one thing most religions see as the greatest gift our "Creator" bestowed upon us. That, my friends, is free will.
 

JAYDEEJOHN

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I see it as my responsibility first in my life, to know God, and His ways.
I dont go around pushing my ways on others, its just not what I do.
When I feel Ive done something wrong, then its my fault, and no one elses.
When I challenge my faith, I also follow the golden rule. So, if Im not done learning, then how also can I forcefully teach?
Ive found that when people see what Im about, what I do is when I "teach", as thats when others see a good way to live their lives.
If I find truth in my ways, I dont change that way, but nor do I end there either, as I grow in the truth there as well, as I see some now, but more later.
So, am I to expect others to see these things as well? No, cause it wasnt easy for me.

Thats why I find it easy to challenge my faith, because I have a good Teacher
 

Reynod

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I am an existentialist ... have studied the sociology of religion ... found it interesting.

I try to keep an open mind.

On the subject of flame wars you should also be aware that all of the mods take a very dim view toward users who flame someone elses religion.

It gets an automatic one week holiday from me for a first offence ... then a permaban.

I have friends from all walks of life ... I highly recommend it.
 

randomizer

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Fortunately religion is not forcefully pushed on people as it once was, at least in Western countries. Sadly there are some (like Iran) where a particular religion is mandated by the Government.
 

RazberyBandit

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I agree randomizer. However, one cannot dismiss the effects that the forcing of religion upon people for several millenia has had on civilization as we know it, as well the effects such acts have had on the beliefs within the world's many religions over that time. I find the Spanish Inquisition a grim, yet perfect example of religious beliefs gone wrong, but no one can be certain where the world would be now if it, and events like it, never happened.

Religion is not just faith in some societies, it's doctrine, so it's forceful nature remains prevalent within our world. Even within societies where religious beliefs aren't doctrine, there remain those who still push it upon others.

Fear is a very motivating factor, and one would be hard pressed not to find fear within religion.
 

Reynod

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For some funny reason the Monty Python skit about the Spanish Iquisition just played back through my head from 25 years ago.

Our weapons are Fear and Surprise ... and a fanatical devotion to .... never mind.

:)

 
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