Which SSD for older Macbook Pro (4.1) with Sata I?

[Laser1]

Hi All-

I've been tempted by current prices to finally upgrade my hard drive on my late 2008, Macbook Pro (4.1, pre-unibody). And upgrade my OS (Snow Leopard to Yosemite).

The hard drive in my Macbook pro has a Sata I connection and I am wondering what my best SSD options are in 2014.

I am most concerned about issues of potential backward compatibility of Sata III with SataI.
I understand Sata III should be be backward compatible with Sata I but I've seen that some people have had issues with this.

So I am wondering if anyone has actually made this upgrade with some of these newer SSD drives available (Samsung 840 Evo, SanDisk Extreme Pro, Crucial m550) and how it has worked out.

I am also curious about whether I should look for older Sata II SSDs? For this I would need recommendations.

Given current prices, I am leaning towards a more current drive with all it's modern goodness (longevity+controller) with the understanding that my Sata I connection will be a bottleneck.

Thank you very much in advance. And if there is anything I've failed to consider, feel free to let me know.

 

[casper1973]

SATA-III is designed to be backwards compatible with SATA-II and SATA-I so you shouldn't have any issues there.


When considering performance don't be mislead by the top end figures. It's easy to look at SSD's claiming 500MB/s read/write then realise your SATA-I interface only supports 187.5 MB/s (1.5Gb/s).

What makes SSD's stand out is their performance for random reads/writes (because OS's are heavily reliant on random read/write actions).
If you look at benchmarks for 4K random read and write 7200RPM hard drives will rarely surpass 3-4MB/s transfer speed.
Meanwhile a decent SSD will reach from 40-60MB/s.

That's a big improvement and it's also well within the limits of your SATA-I interface.

 

[Ijack]

There's a good article here: http://www.macworld.co.uk/feature/mac/best-ssd-mac-updated-3522012/ on this subject; worth reading before making your decision. Note that it will be difficult to enable TRIM with Yosemite.

Googling "third party ssd in old macbook" will give you a lot more information.

 

[Palorim12]

Also, make sure you don't use Yosemite if you're gonna get a 3rd party SSD.

 

[Laser1]

Palorim12

I've seen these issues with Yosemite and failure to support TRIM for 3rd party SSDs. But I've also seen the TRIM is not absolutely necessary for newer SSDs.

Case in point, OWC, which specializes in Mac components, doesn't recommend activating TRIM in the OS.

My understanding is that newer SSDs can handle the lack of TRIM through their own built in controller (commands?)

I'm no expert on this, so if I am wrong let me know.

This is also why I am hoping someone can give me an definitive recommendation based on their real world experience.

 

[Laser1]

Ijack-

Thank you for this link. I read it and found. Below I've commented on the whether TRIM is actually required. If my understanding that TRIM is not necessary, let me know.

 

[Palorim12]

There's alot of things ppl don't understand about TRIM and Garbage Collection. I've seen many SSDs slow down immensely and speed back up once TRIM was enabled on the Mac.

Amazing Garbage Collection alone isn't enough. It'll extend the life a bit, but the thing is TRIM and GC are codependent. They do two separate jobs that affect eachother.


When the OS “deletes” data, the data does not actually go anywhere. The space in which it resides is simply marked as “free space” that may be used later. By default, because it doesn't know it’s not working with its longtime HDD companion, the OS doesn’t let the SSD know that a particular piece of data is no longer valid and that its corresponding memory location is now free – after all, there is no reason to do so. With the introduction of SSDs, however, there is now a compelling reason to increase communication about file validity between the OS and the storage device. Enter TRIM. TRIM allows the OS to inform the SSD which data are no longer valid, allowing the SSD to skip over invalid data when performing Garbage Collection instead of moving around old data. Once a block is full of pages that all contain invalid data, that block is considered free and may be erased.

Garbage Collection collects any valid data and carefully places it together. By doing this, invalid data is left separate and can be erased to make more free space, which means no waiting is necessary when you try to write new data to a page that may have previously been filled with “garbage” data.

So without TRIM, that invalid data builds up and can cause issues with the drive.

 

[Laser1]

Thank you Palomir12. I understand what you are saying. But then I see this stuff:
http://www.zdnet.com/os-x-yosemite-and-third-party-ssds-heres-what-you-need-to-know-7000035872/

Here the comments are actually interesting to go through. To summarize, the OWC people argue with Sandforce/LSI controllers, TRIM isn't essential for long term SSD use in OSX.

So, as a non-expert, it's hard to know whether TRIM, in reality is necessary.

This is why I've asked the question and opened the discussion, which has been helpful so far.

There's alot of things ppl don't understand about TRIM and Garbage Collection. I've seen many SSDs slow down immensely and speed back up once TRIM was enabled on the Mac.

Amazing Garbage Collection alone isn't enough. It'll extend the life a bit, but the thing is TRIM and GC are codependent. They do two separate jobs that affect eachother.


When the OS “deletes” data, the data does not actually go anywhere. The space in which it resides is simply marked as “free space” that may be used later. By default, because it doesn't know it’s not working with its longtime HDD companion, the OS doesn’t let the SSD know that a particular piece of data is no longer valid and that its corresponding memory location is now free – after all, there is no reason to do so. With the introduction of SSDs, however, there is now a compelling reason to increase communication about file validity between the OS and the storage device. Enter TRIM. TRIM allows the OS to inform the SSD which data are no longer valid, allowing the SSD to skip over invalid data when performing Garbage Collection instead of moving around old data. Once a block is full of pages that all contain invalid data, that block is considered free and may be erased.

Garbage Collection collects any valid data and carefully places it together. By doing this, invalid data is left separate and can be erased to make more free space, which means no waiting is necessary when you try to write new data to a page that may have previously been filled with “garbage” data.

So without TRIM, that invalid data builds up and can cause issues with the drive.

 

[Palorim12]

OWC is also an Apple partner, that's a part of the equation.

I've seen other issues come up with Yosemite that the moment i tried on the same exact system with Mavericks or earlier, there were no problems.

 

[Laser1]

Yes. I've read of changes under the hood in Yosemite that weren't there in Mavericks.
Something about code signing and kexts (for security?) and this breaking the ability to turn on TRIM for 3rd party SSDs.

But I am no expert, and I do not understand the changes or the issues.

I am simply looking for an SSD that will work well in Macbook Pro 4.1, a machine that still works pretty well.

OWC is also an Apple partner, that's a part of the equation.

I've seen other issues come up with Yosemite that the moment i tried on the same exact system with Mavericks or earlier, there were no problems.

 

[Palorim12]

Samsung's SSDs are pretty solid in it as long as you don't use Yosemite and make sure Trim is enabled. Unfortunately though, you're stuck with that SATA I connection, so you won't see much of a speed increase.

 

[Laser1]

Yes. Seems like an artificially imposed choice, quality, fast SSD but can not use Yosemite or use Yosemite and take a chance with your data.

Samsung's SSDs are pretty solid in it as long as you don't use Yosemite and make sure Trim is enabled. Unfortunately though, you're stuck with that SATA I connection, so you won't see much of a speed increase.

 

[Palorim12]

Unfortunately its an artificial choice purposely created by Apple.

 

[Laser1]

At this point, I would have to agree. It is difficult to understand their reasoning.

That said, wouldn't an SSD with good garbage collection and preserved space be a sufficient alternative to OS TRIM commands?

Unfortunately its an artificial choice purposely created by Apple.

 

[Palorim12]

Like i said, the invalid data would still build up, i've dealt with crucial, OCZ and Samsung SSDs being slow in MACs and the moment I enabled TRIM and left them idle for a few hours, the SSDs would speed right back up.

Edit*
Forgot to add, Apple's reasoning is "You have money and i want it now!!"

 

[Laser1]

Hi-

I've been thinking about this issue a bit more and have decided a better question now is which, if any, SSDs would be best to use long-term without TRIM.

Are there some controllers, brands that would be less susceptible to performance degradation and drive wear in the absence of TRIM?

I am also thinking of submitting this question on it's own, just to let you all know.

Thank you.

Like i said, the invalid data would still build up, i've dealt with crucial, OCZ and Samsung SSDs being slow in MACs and the moment I enabled TRIM and left them idle for a few hours, the SSDs would speed right back up.

Edit*
Forgot to add, Apple's reasoning is "You have money and i want it now!!"