Which version of linux...

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I am about to do my spring-cleaning reformat of my OS and I want to get in
on linux, I have heard great things about it as it pertains to video
encoding especially. So I plan to set up a dual boot with XP Pro and Linux.

What free version of Linux would be best for video work? I have a dual AMD
2000+ with 2 gigs of ram, and an Nvidia 5600u softquado'ed to a 700go GL if
that makes any difference.

Videoken


--
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videoken wrote:
> I am about to do my spring-cleaning reformat of my OS and I want to get in
> on linux, I have heard great things about it as it pertains to video
> encoding especially. So I plan to set up a dual boot with XP Pro and
Linux.
>
> What free version of Linux would be best for video work? I have a dual AMD
> 2000+ with 2 gigs of ram, and an Nvidia 5600u softquado'ed to a 700go GL
if
> that makes any difference.

Suse is a good choice. If this is your first go with linux, you might think
about Mandrake, though.

Have a look here http://www.linuxiso.org/
 
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i'm_tired wrote:

> videoken wrote:
> > I am about to do my spring-cleaning reformat of my OS and I want to get in
> > on linux, I have heard great things about it as it pertains to video
> > encoding especially. So I plan to set up a dual boot with XP Pro and
> Linux.
> >
> > What free version of Linux would be best for video work? I have a dual AMD
> > 2000+ with 2 gigs of ram, and an Nvidia 5600u softquado'ed to a 700go GL
> if
> > that makes any difference.
>
> Suse is a good choice. If this is your first go with linux, you might think
> about Mandrake, though.
>
> Have a look here http://www.linuxiso.org/

I agree about SuSE but disagree about Mandrake.

Mandrake's current installer is reported not to work on a system with any SCSI
drives (on my system it refused to install at all because I wanted it on the
second drive rather than the first). Mandrake's auto update can easily wipe out
your system (at least it's royally hosed my KDE desktop the two times I gave 9.1
a try).

SuSE just rocks. It's as easy to configure as Windows, with the YaST tool. SuSE
9.1 is coming out May 8 and includes the 2.6.3 kernel.

Also the SuSE newsgroup is very helpful.

You can get the "personal" version for $29. A lot cheaper than Microsoft and a
lot more powerful, stable and secure. Setting it up for dual boot with Windows
is brain dead simple, and the installer will even give you an icon for your
"C:\" drive so you have access to your Windows fonts and other files in Linux.

You won't find any apps that can equal Ulead DVD Workshop or Movie Factory, but
there are plenty of other types of apps. Just boot into Windows for making DVDs
and editing mpeg-2.

Keith
 
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Baron Von "videoken"
<chekken_removethispart_u_andthispart_out_andthispart@yahooyouknowwhattodowiththispart.com>
sayed:

>I am about to do my spring-cleaning reformat of my OS and I want to get in
>on linux, I have heard great things about it as it pertains to video
>encoding especially. So I plan to set up a dual boot with XP Pro and Linux.

Think about what file format you're gonna use when formatting your HDD
if you want both Linux and XP to read from the same drive.

--
Joe's Nunn out, out
 
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SjT wrote:

> Baron Von "videoken"
> <chekken_removethispart_u_andthispart_out_andthispart@yahooyouknowwhattodowiththispart.com>
> sayed:
>
> >I am about to do my spring-cleaning reformat of my OS and I want to get in
> >on linux, I have heard great things about it as it pertains to video
> >encoding especially. So I plan to set up a dual boot with XP Pro and Linux.
>
> Think about what file format you're gonna use when formatting your HDD
> if you want both Linux and XP to read from the same drive.
>
>

Not necessarily good advice, and misleading, since you need a separate *blank* partition to
install Linux to.

You can read NTFS in Linux with no problems. SuSE will create mount-points for your NTFS drives
during the install and when you boot into linux the first time you'll be able to read all your
Windows files. SuSE can also shrink your Windows partition to make room to install SuSE. I
haven't tried this on NTFS and don't recommend doing so on a production system (unless you've
Ghosted it first).

You can't write to NTFS drives from Linux. Not an issue, since you can't read or write to a
Linux formatted drive from Windows anyway.

The solution is to use a FAT-32 formatted drive (or partition) for sharing files between
Windows and Linux.

~Keith
 
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Keith Clark wrote:

> You can get the "personal" version for $29. A lot cheaper than Microsoft and a
> lot more powerful, stable and secure. Setting it up for dual boot with Windows
> is brain dead simple, and the installer will even give you an icon for your
> "C:\" drive so you have access to your Windows fonts and other files in Linux.

Can you both read and write to that C: drive? I have heard that
NTFS-formatted drives are read-only....?

(ok, it's a bit off-topic)

--
Josef Garvi

"Reversing desertification through drought tolerant trees"
http://www.eden-foundation.org/

new income - better environment - more food - less poverty
 
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Josef Garvi wrote:

> Keith Clark wrote:
>
> > You can get the "personal" version for $29. A lot cheaper than Microsoft and a
> > lot more powerful, stable and secure. Setting it up for dual boot with Windows
> > is brain dead simple, and the installer will even give you an icon for your
> > "C:\" drive so you have access to your Windows fonts and other files in Linux.
>
> Can you both read and write to that C: drive? I have heard that
> NTFS-formatted drives are read-only....?
>
> (ok, it's a bit off-topic)
>

No, it's a valid point. File systems have to be considered when dual booting.

NTFS write support is very limited, experimental, and dangerous. You should *not*
attempt to write to an NTFS disk in Linux currently.

The easiest solution is to have a separate OS and data drive. Your Windows and Linux
installations can reside on a small 80 GB drive, and you can use like a 160 or 250
GB drive for your video capturing. A 250 or bigger would be recommended, because
then you could partition it in two big parts, a NTFS partition to get around file
size limitations in Windows, and a Fat-32 partition. You would use the Fat-32
partition for sharing files. This is roughly how I do it on my machine (I boot from
two SCSI drives, one each for Windows/Linux, and I have two video drives, a small
one formatted as Fat-32 and a 160 GB drive as NTFS).

Otherwise if you have a second machine you could store files over your network, and
the filesystem on that machine wouldn't matter as long as it supported large
(multi-gigabyte) files.

~Keith
 
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Keith Clark <clarkphotography@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> NTFS write support is very limited, experimental, and dangerous.

Depends on what NTFS driver you mean. There are several, for example
the two open source drivers at http://linux-ntfs.sf.net/status.html
One of them is obsolete the other is very limited but safe.

There is also Captive NTFS:
http://www.jankratochvil.net/project/captive/

Then Paragon's NTFS for Linux: http://www.ntfs-linux.com

> You should *not*
> attempt to write to an NTFS disk in Linux currently.

With which NTFS driver? Write is disabled in the obsolete driver and
the other one is indeed still too limited. I didn't try the other two
drivers. You?

> The easiest solution is to have a separate OS and data drive. Your Windows and Linux
> installations can reside on a small 80 GB drive, and you can use like a 160 or 250
> GB drive for your video capturing. A 250 or bigger would be recommended, because
> then you could partition it in two big parts, a NTFS partition to get around file
> size limitations in Windows, and a Fat-32 partition. You would use the Fat-32
> partition for sharing files. This is roughly how I do it on my machine (I boot from
> two SCSI drives, one each for Windows/Linux, and I have two video drives, a small
> one formatted as Fat-32 and a 160 GB drive as NTFS).

This is a good idea.
 
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"Sz. Csetey" wrote:

> Keith Clark <clarkphotography@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > NTFS write support is very limited, experimental, and dangerous.
>
> Depends on what NTFS driver you mean. There are several, for example
> the two open source drivers at http://linux-ntfs.sf.net/status.html
> One of them is obsolete the other is very limited but safe.
>
> There is also Captive NTFS:
> http://www.jankratochvil.net/project/captive/
>
> Then Paragon's NTFS for Linux: http://www.ntfs-linux.com
>
> > You should *not*
> > attempt to write to an NTFS disk in Linux currently.
>
> With which NTFS driver? Write is disabled in the obsolete driver and
> the other one is indeed still too limited. I didn't try the other two
> drivers. You?
>
> > The easiest solution is to have a separate OS and data drive. Your Windows and Linux
> > installations can reside on a small 80 GB drive, and you can use like a 160 or 250
> > GB drive for your video capturing. A 250 or bigger would be recommended, because
> > then you could partition it in two big parts, a NTFS partition to get around file
> > size limitations in Windows, and a Fat-32 partition. You would use the Fat-32
> > partition for sharing files. This is roughly how I do it on my machine (I boot from
> > two SCSI drives, one each for Windows/Linux, and I have two video drives, a small
> > one formatted as Fat-32 and a 160 GB drive as NTFS).
>
> This is a good idea.

I just use the one built in to the kernel, but I still have the NTFS drives mounted "read
only" because I can simply save to a Fat-32 drive if needed.

If you can safely write to an NTFS volume that's fine, but consider the context - we're
talking to a potential newbie, who's never used Linux and isn't going to want to be bogged
down with compiling kernels right away. So in that context, it's just safe and prudent to
say "don't write to NTFS", especially since drives are cheap and IDE connections
plentiful, at least that was my reasoning for saying it (yes, I acknowledge that for
technically advanced users, that may not be the case).

Cheers,
Keith
 
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Thanks for all the great replys...

I think I'll have to look into how to do this right before I screw up my
production sytem. Can I install SuSE at any time or should I do it at the
same time I reformat and reinstall XP?

Not to be redundant but here are my understandings of what has been said so
far:

I can install SuSE on the same partition as XP. Then after that, it is a
matter of having a fat 32 drive or partition so that I may use my results in
xp if I have to. Also, can I 'send' files back to my linux OS by writing
them to the fat 32 drive in XP.

Is that all correct?

Videoken


"Keith Clark" <clarkphotography@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:407C1C7C.215122D9@hotmail.com...
>
>
> SjT wrote:
>
> > Baron Von "videoken"
> >
<chekken_removethispart_u_andthispart_out_andthispart@yahooyouknowwhattodowi
ththispart.com>
> > sayed:
> >
> > >I am about to do my spring-cleaning reformat of my OS and I want to get
in
> > >on linux, I have heard great things about it as it pertains to video
> > >encoding especially. So I plan to set up a dual boot with XP Pro and
Linux.
> >
> > Think about what file format you're gonna use when formatting your HDD
> > if you want both Linux and XP to read from the same drive.
> >
> >
>
> Not necessarily good advice, and misleading, since you need a separate
*blank* partition to
> install Linux to.
>
> You can read NTFS in Linux with no problems. SuSE will create mount-points
for your NTFS drives
> during the install and when you boot into linux the first time you'll be
able to read all your
> Windows files. SuSE can also shrink your Windows partition to make room to
install SuSE. I
> haven't tried this on NTFS and don't recommend doing so on a production
system (unless you've
> Ghosted it first).
>
> You can't write to NTFS drives from Linux. Not an issue, since you can't
read or write to a
> Linux formatted drive from Windows anyway.
>
> The solution is to use a FAT-32 formatted drive (or partition) for sharing
files between
> Windows and Linux.
>
> ~Keith
>
 
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videoken wrote:

> Thanks for all the great replys...
>
> I think I'll have to look into how to do this right before I screw up my
> production sytem. Can I install SuSE at any time or should I do it at the
> same time I reformat and reinstall XP?
>

You can do it at any time.

But as with any OS install, "back up your data first" applies.

Personally, I would install XP first and then install SuSE (or other Linux).

The reason is that Microsoft doesn't respect third party boot loaders and will
over-write your MBR and you will lose the ability to boot into Linux (without
doing a painfully slow floppy boot).

Almost all Linux installs give you a wide range of choices about how to
configure the bootloader. Microsoft doesn't. That alone should be grounds for
an anti-trust suit.

I don't hate Microsoft's OS (except for the poor security, the fact that you
have to reboot after installing any trivial patch, and other annoyances). I do
hate Microsoft's arrogant attitude when it comes to level playing fields, and
fair and open competition.

>
> Not to be redundant but here are my understandings of what has been said so
> far:
>
> I can install SuSE on the same partition as XP.

No!

Assuming that you're installing both XP and Linux from scratch on an empty drive
:

You need to partition your boot drive into TWO partitions. Install XP first. You
can use XP to do the partitioning. Start the XP install, and it will eventually
get to the partitioning screen just like you see in Win2K. Delete all existing
partitions using the menu. Then create a new partition, that's for sake of
discussion only, 1/2 the size of the drive. Let XP format and install to that
partition.

Then, when XP is finished, and you've downloaded and installed all the service
packs, patches, etc., boot to the SuSE (or other Linux) CD #1 and begin the
install. The wizard will detect that you have Windows installed, and set up a
partitioning scheme for the *rest* of the drive, the unused part. You can review
and change this before any changes are made (unlike the Microsoft installer,
where one wrong mouse click can destroy all your existing data instantly -
Microsoft needs to learn from Linux, not the other way around!).


> Then after that, it is a
> matter of having a fat 32 drive or partition so that I may use my results in
> xp if I have to. Also, can I 'send' files back to my linux OS by writing
> them to the fat 32 drive in XP.

Yes. Of course the downside to Fat32 is you now have a limit of only 4 GB per
file but you can work around that. Popular Linux capture programs support "auto
split" during capture.


>
> Is that all correct?
>
> Videoken
>

I highly suggest you hang out in the SuSE discussion group, "alt.os.linux.suse"
and ask questions there too. Of course the most popular discussions currently
are "how soon can I buy version 9.1"...imagine that, people lining up to pay for
open source software. That ought to say something for the quality.

Also check out this new Toms Hardware Guide to Linux :

http://www20.tomshardware.com/howto/20040412/index.html
(lots of SuSE screenshots :->)

and this older one

http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20040329/index.html

And a misc. review I stumbled across to whet your appetite:

http://news.devnetwork.net/suse/suse_review.html

By the way, the books that come in the SuSE box are very good.

Keith
 
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Nope, after another re-read, I have to install Linux on it's own partition.
My inference is that partion should also be the 'sharing' Fat 32 partition.

videoken


"videoken"
<chekken_removethispart_u_andthispart_out_andthispart@yahooyouknowwhattodowi
ththispart.com> wrote in message
news:YbYec.16324$mX.5560060@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> Thanks for all the great replys...
>
> I think I'll have to look into how to do this right before I screw up my
> production sytem. Can I install SuSE at any time or should I do it at the
> same time I reformat and reinstall XP?
>
> Not to be redundant but here are my understandings of what has been said
so
> far:
>
> I can install SuSE on the same partition as XP. Then after that, it is a
> matter of having a fat 32 drive or partition so that I may use my results
in
> xp if I have to. Also, can I 'send' files back to my linux OS by writing
> them to the fat 32 drive in XP.
>
> Is that all correct?
>
> Videoken
>
>
> "Keith Clark" <clarkphotography@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:407C1C7C.215122D9@hotmail.com...
> >
> >
> > SjT wrote:
> >
> > > Baron Von "videoken"
> > >
>
<chekken_removethispart_u_andthispart_out_andthispart@yahooyouknowwhattodowi
> ththispart.com>
> > > sayed:
> > >
> > > >I am about to do my spring-cleaning reformat of my OS and I want to
get
> in
> > > >on linux, I have heard great things about it as it pertains to video
> > > >encoding especially. So I plan to set up a dual boot with XP Pro and
> Linux.
> > >
> > > Think about what file format you're gonna use when formatting your HDD
> > > if you want both Linux and XP to read from the same drive.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Not necessarily good advice, and misleading, since you need a separate
> *blank* partition to
> > install Linux to.
> >
> > You can read NTFS in Linux with no problems. SuSE will create
mount-points
> for your NTFS drives
> > during the install and when you boot into linux the first time you'll be
> able to read all your
> > Windows files. SuSE can also shrink your Windows partition to make room
to
> install SuSE. I
> > haven't tried this on NTFS and don't recommend doing so on a production
> system (unless you've
> > Ghosted it first).
> >
> > You can't write to NTFS drives from Linux. Not an issue, since you can't
> read or write to a
> > Linux formatted drive from Windows anyway.
> >
> > The solution is to use a FAT-32 formatted drive (or partition) for
sharing
> files between
> > Windows and Linux.
> >
> > ~Keith
> >
>
>
 
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On a sunny day (Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:39:33 GMT) it happened "videoken"
<chekken_removethispart_u_andthispart_out_andthispart@yahooyouknowwhattodowith
ohispart.com> wrote in <9eYec.16325$mX.5560869@twister.nyc.rr.com>:

>Nope, after another re-read, I have to install Linux on it's own partition.
>My inference is that partion should also be the 'sharing' Fat 32 partition.
Nope, Linux in its own partition (ext2 or reiserfs if possible),
and soem FAT based partition for files that both Linux and MS windows can write
to.
And MS windows in yest an other partition.
Do not be afraid of partitions, you will be using more, like for swap etc..
 
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Jan Panteltje wrote:

> On a sunny day (Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:39:33 GMT) it happened "videoken"
> <chekken_removethispart_u_andthispart_out_andthispart@yahooyouknowwhattodowith
> ohispart.com> wrote in <9eYec.16325$mX.5560869@twister.nyc.rr.com>:
>
> >Nope, after another re-read, I have to install Linux on it's own partition.
> >My inference is that partion should also be the 'sharing' Fat 32 partition.
> Nope, Linux in its own partition (ext2 or reiserfs if possible),
> and soem FAT based partition for files that both Linux and MS windows can write
> to.
> And MS windows in yest an other partition.
> Do not be afraid of partitions, you will be using more, like for swap etc..

I only use 2 partitions for SuSE : "/" and "swap"... But the point was that the
install wizard does it for you.
 
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Baron Von Keith Clark <clarkphotography@hotmail.com> sayed:

>I don't hate Microsoft's OS (except for the poor security, the fact that you
>have to reboot after installing any trivial patch, and other annoyances). I do
>hate Microsoft's arrogant attitude when it comes to level playing fields, and
>fair and open competition.

Microsoft are a business, not a charity case remember ;)

--
Joe's Nunn out, out
 
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SjT wrote:

> Baron Von Keith Clark <clarkphotography@hotmail.com> sayed:
>
> >I don't hate Microsoft's OS (except for the poor security, the fact that you
> >have to reboot after installing any trivial patch, and other annoyances). I do
> >hate Microsoft's arrogant attitude when it comes to level playing fields, and
> >fair and open competition.
>
> Microsoft are a business, not a charity case remember ;)
>
>

That's fine.

But if you look at the multitude of court cases in which Microsoft LOST because of
their business practices, it becomes clear to anyone with a brain that Microsoft's
business practices are ILLEGAL in a great many cases.

Look, I have nothing against the right of any business, whether Microsoft or
RedHat or SCO to make a good profit - based on the *merits of their products*.

But engaging in dirty tricks like including DLLs that make the OS crash unless
you're using MS DOS instead of DR DOS (a vastly superior, Unix like version of DOS)
in Windows 3.11 days, or deliberately overwriting the MBR without asking to screw
up somebody's boot loader is inexcusable.

Telling PC makers that they will lose the right to sell any Microsoft products if
they include another OS, is not acceptable either.

Suing everybody in sight just to make them spend money on legal fees and extort
illegal "license fees" (SCO) isn't acceptable either.

If you think it is, then maybe you should go to work for the Mafia, beaches you
don't belong in a legitimate business.

Competition is what makes the free market system so great. But competition needs to
be on a level playing field. That's why we have anti-trust laws. I just wish those
laws would be enforced a lot more vigorously.

Look, if RedHat or SuSE (Novell) were pulling these stunts, I'd be ranting about
them too.
 
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On a sunny day (Wed, 14 Apr 2004 10:02:38 -0700) it happened Keith Clark
<clarkphotography@hotmail.com> wrote in <407D6EAE.E4686AFD@hotmail.com>:

>
>
>SjT wrote:
>
>> Baron Von Keith Clark <clarkphotography@hotmail.com> sayed:
>>
>> >I don't hate Microsoft's OS (except for the poor security, the fact that you
>> >have to reboot after installing any trivial patch, and other annoyances). I do
>> >hate Microsoft's arrogant attitude when it comes to level playing fields, and
>> >fair and open competition.
>>
>> Microsoft are a business, not a charity case remember ;)
>>
>>
>
>That's fine.
>
>But if you look at the multitude of court cases in which Microsoft LOST because of
>their business practices, it becomes clear to anyone with a brain that Microsoft's
>business practices are ILLEGAL in a great many cases.
>
>Look, I have nothing against the right of any business, whether Microsoft or
>RedHat or SCO to make a good profit - based on the *merits of their products*.
>
>But engaging in dirty tricks like including DLLs that make the OS crash unless
>you're using MS DOS instead of DR DOS (a vastly superior, Unix like version of DOS)
>in Windows 3.11 days, or deliberately overwriting the MBR without asking to screw
>up somebody's boot loader is inexcusable.
>
>Telling PC makers that they will lose the right to sell any Microsoft products if
>they include another OS, is not acceptable either.
>
>Suing everybody in sight just to make them spend money on legal fees and extort
>illegal "license fees" (SCO) isn't acceptable either.
>
>If you think it is, then maybe you should go to work for the Mafia, beaches you
>don't belong in a legitimate business.
>
>Competition is what makes the free market system so great. But competition needs to
>be on a level playing field. That's why we have anti-trust laws. I just wish those
>laws would be enforced a lot more vigorously.
>
>Look, if RedHat or SuSE (Novell) were pulling these stunts, I'd be ranting about
>them too.
>
On this one I agree with you...
Most of it..
JP
 
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Jan Panteltje wrote:

> On a sunny day (Wed, 14 Apr 2004 10:02:38 -0700) it happened Keith Clark
> <clarkphotography@hotmail.com> wrote in <407D6EAE.E4686AFD@hotmail.com>:
>
> >
> >
> >SjT wrote:
> >
> >> Baron Von Keith Clark <clarkphotography@hotmail.com> sayed:
> >>
> >> >I don't hate Microsoft's OS (except for the poor security, the fact that you
> >> >have to reboot after installing any trivial patch, and other annoyances). I do
> >> >hate Microsoft's arrogant attitude when it comes to level playing fields, and
> >> >fair and open competition.
> >>
> >> Microsoft are a business, not a charity case remember ;)
> >>
> >>
> >
> >That's fine.
> >
> >But if you look at the multitude of court cases in which Microsoft LOST because of
> >their business practices, it becomes clear to anyone with a brain that Microsoft's
> >business practices are ILLEGAL in a great many cases.
> >
> >Look, I have nothing against the right of any business, whether Microsoft or
> >RedHat or SCO to make a good profit - based on the *merits of their products*.
> >
> >But engaging in dirty tricks like including DLLs that make the OS crash unless
> >you're using MS DOS instead of DR DOS (a vastly superior, Unix like version of DOS)
> >in Windows 3.11 days, or deliberately overwriting the MBR without asking to screw
> >up somebody's boot loader is inexcusable.
> >
> >Telling PC makers that they will lose the right to sell any Microsoft products if
> >they include another OS, is not acceptable either.
> >
> >Suing everybody in sight just to make them spend money on legal fees and extort
> >illegal "license fees" (SCO) isn't acceptable either.
> >
> >If you think it is, then maybe you should go to work for the Mafia, beaches you
> >don't belong in a legitimate business.
> >
> >Competition is what makes the free market system so great. But competition needs to
> >be on a level playing field. That's why we have anti-trust laws. I just wish those
> >laws would be enforced a lot more vigorously.
> >
> >Look, if RedHat or SuSE (Novell) were pulling these stunts, I'd be ranting about
> >them too.
> >
> On this one I agree with you...
> Most of it..
> JP

Ohh ohh... ;->

I didn't know this till a few minutes ago, but Israel, in October of last year suspended
all of their government contracts and banned new business with Microsoft effective for
all of 2004.

This article in the Globe and Mail that I found on Slashdot says that Microsoft
considers endless anti-trust actions merely a "cost of doing business".

http://www.globetechnology.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040413.gtmsoft0413/BNStory/Technology/

Think of how much better their software would be if they could spend that money on new
feature development and just compete fairly on merit. What a concept.
 
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Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

On a sunny day (Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:37:12 GMT) it happened "videoken"
<chekken_removethispart_u_andthispart_out_andthispart@yahooyouknowwhattodowith


>Thanks for all the great replys...
>
>I think I'll have to look into how to do this right before I screw up my
>production sytem. Can I install SuSE at any time or should I do it at the
>same time I reformat and reinstall XP?
>
>Not to be redundant but here are my understandings of what has been said so
>far:
>
>I can install SuSE on the same partition as XP. Then after that, it is a
>matter of having a fat 32 drive or partition so that I may use my results in
>xp if I have to. Also, can I 'send' files back to my linux OS by writing
>them to the fat 32 drive in XP.
>
>Is that all correct?
No, you CANNOT install Linux on the same partition as windows.
You CAN install it on the same drive in a different partition.
JP
 
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Baron Von Keith Clark <clarkphotography@hotmail.com> sayed:

>> >I don't hate Microsoft's OS (except for the poor security, the fact that you
>> >have to reboot after installing any trivial patch, and other annoyances). I do
>> >hate Microsoft's arrogant attitude when it comes to level playing fields, and
>> >fair and open competition.
>>
>> Microsoft are a business, not a charity case remember ;)
>
>That's fine.
>
>But if you look at the multitude of court cases in which Microsoft LOST because of
>their business practices, it becomes clear to anyone with a brain that Microsoft's
>business practices are ILLEGAL in a great many cases.

I don't like MS and their business practises either, but at the end of
the day i dont see why they should play fair and be forced to shell
out on these monopolyu cases its the end users who pays for it, not
them, besides i beleive that if linux was really any competitor to
windows and was half as good as its users claim then it would win out,
unfortunatly its seen as a tight-fisted geek's operating system and
that's why alot of developers dont produce for it, no ones really
prepared to pay serious money for linux apps, and so it is left to
bedroom programmers, who probably haven't got little johnny and his
mum in mind.

I wish it was better than windows, but for the majority of people who
want to turn on and talk to a paper clip and play a few games on their
machines it isnt, and thats why MS have the monopoly, not because of
their tricks, dont fool yourself.

--
Joe's Nunn out, out
 
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I agree to the extent that it's not Microsoft's job to enforce
anti-trust legislation, or engage in fair business practises.
Microsoft's job is to make money. It is the government's failure to
enforce it's own laws that is to blame. The Bush Administration chose
to drop the DOJ action in spite of overwhelming evidence of Microsoft's
malfeasance. The government failed to escalate the fines and
punishments to match the scale of the rewards Microsoft received for
it's illegal marketting practises.

As to why Microsoft has a monopoly, I doubt that it's because of their
product. In fact, Microsoft has been stunningly ineffective at
anticipating or address consumer desires, especially in terms of
reliability and security (yesterday: another security alert for
defective MS code). Microsoft failed to see the internet coming.
Remember "Bob"? Remember all the problems managing memory above 640K?
The only reason they have their market position is because of their
foothold obtained with DOS which they used to leverage themselves onto
everybody's desktop without any regard for consumer preference.

I am still outraged by the way all computer users were forced to buy
Windows with every computer whether we asked for it or not.

SjT wrote:

>I don't like MS and their business practises either, but at the end of
>the day i dont see why they should play fair and be forced to shell
>out on these monopolyu cases its the end users who pays for it, not
>them, besides i beleive that if linux was really any competitor to
>windows and was half as good as its users claim then it would win out,
>unfortunatly its seen as a tight-fisted geek's operating system and
>that's why alot of developers dont produce for it, no ones really
>prepared to pay serious money for linux apps, and so it is left to
>bedroom programmers, who probably haven't got little johnny and his
>mum in mind.
>
>I wish it was better than windows, but for the majority of people who
>want to turn on and talk to a paper clip and play a few games on their
>machines it isnt, and thats why MS have the monopoly, not because of
>their tricks, dont fool yourself.
>
>
>
 
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SjT wrote:

>
>
> I don't like MS and their business practises either, but at the end of
> the day i dont see why they should play fair

Because it's the LAW.


> <snip> besides i beleive that if linux was really any competitor to
> windows and was half as good as its users claim then it would win out,

It IS as good, and it IS winning out. Many large companies and even whole city
governments are run on it. When the US Navy bought a bung of new Macs the requirement
was that they run Linux. Use a cell phone? It's not Microsoft software running the
racks of line cards in the central office, it's VX Works and Linux. Mention Microsoft
in a telco environment and the least that'll happen is hysterical laughter. Watch many
Hollywood movies? Lots of FX is done with Linux. Whole Disney studios are running
Linux. Sinbad was done on Linux.



>
> unfortunatly its seen as a tight-fisted geek's operating system

By some maybe.

Except that people get excited about getting new versions of SuSE the minute it goes on
sale. Of course, the license entitles you to install it on an unlimited number of
machines, but that's besides the point (or is it?).

Talk to game companies that make Linux demos available and they'll tell you that the
conversion rate (those who actually buy the game) is higher for Linux users. There've
been articles about this. Search on Slashdot, I think it was covered about 6 months ago
or so. I'm to the point where I only buy games that will run on Linux, in part because
I get a better gaming experience in Linux than Windows (higher frame rates, more
responsive controls), and in part because installing a game on Linux can be done at the
"user" security level, and not hose any system files like codecs etc. I've had major
headaches on Windows after a game messed with my codecs.



> and
> that's why alot of developers dont produce for it,

Actually it's more to do with support. Support is complicated on Linux for a variety of
reasons, more so than Windows. As more distributions adopt standards-based
configurations, this is changing. SuSE is a leader in that area.


> no ones really
> prepared to pay serious money for linux apps,

That's not true.

Macromedia did some serious market research and found that there is enough of a paying
market to port their tools over to Linux.

People want relief from the virus-of-the-week attacks that Microsoft's unsecure
architecture invites. They want to be free from having to reboot every time they
install a patch or minor upgrade or new application. People want fast, reliable, stable
systems. And they want to be free from paying huge sums of money to get a license for
every machine they own just to upgrade the OS.

> and so it is left to
> bedroom programmers<snip>

Some people do open source as a hobby, but many do it as a business.

And some people do "closed source" for Linux.

At the end of the day, I just want apps that work. If I can find open source ones for
free that will do what I want, I'll use them. But if not, and there's a closed source
"Ulead" or "Macromedia" tool that I need to do the job, then so be it.

>
>
> I wish it was better than windows

It IS better than Windows. You've obviously never used SuSE.



> , but for the majority of people who
> want to turn on and talk to a paper clip and play a few games on their
> machines it isnt,

Wrong again.

Most people want everything to come with the OS and not have to buy anything extra.
People use Media Player because it's installed. They use IE because it's installed
(never mind that Opera and Mozilla are better in several ways). They use MS Office
because they pirate a copy from work because their employer forces them to use it.

Do you have ANY idea how much quality software comes on the 5 SuSE CD's and 2 double
sided DVDs? A TON (and it installs in about the same time as Windows). There's Open
Office, which by Microsoft's own admission is every bit as some versions of MS Office.
The latest version opened every Microsoft Word document or Excel spreadsheet I could
throw at it and looked and printed identically to Windows versions.

Look, there are 4 year olds using Linux daily. Anyone who can use a mouse can do what
they need pretty easily. Even advanced system administration is pretty easy using the
SuSE "Yast" setup wizard (think Windows Device Manager, Windows Update, "msconfig" all
on steroids and rolled into one utility). I was amazed sine I'd been used to doing
things the hard way.

Hell, even networking with Windows machines didn't take any thought. At Christmas, my
mother-in-law was here and wanted to download some pictures from her digital camera.
Even though it was USB, it required special drivers (Kodak) that you can't download
without a butt load of forms to fill out. Well that ticked me off so I plugged in in to
my SuSE machine just to see what would happen - and before I could look for the manual,
an icon popped up on the desktop, I clicked on it (once), and there were all her
pictures. Then I clicked the "Local Network" icon on the desktop (I had never bothered
to try to configure networking, I just have the system plugged into my Linksys
firewall/DSL router), and saw the hard drive of my wife's machine. So I clicked &
dragged the pictures from the camera to my wife's machine without even thinking about
it, it was so simple.

Not as good as Windows? Think again. It's BETTER than Windows and that's just one
example.

> and thats why MS have the monopoly, not because of
> their tricks, dont fool yourself.
>
>

Don't fool YOURself.
 
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Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

Bill Van Dyk wrote:

>
>
> I am still outraged by the way all computer users were forced to buy
> Windows with every computer whether we asked for it or not.

Not all.

Microsoft has lobbied hard to make selling computers with no OS illegal,
but it can be done.

I organized a purchase of several IBM laptops for work with no
pre-installed OS (we have a site license and didn't want to pay twice for
the OS).

You buy some machines at Walmart with either no OS or with versions of
Linux installed.

Dell and IBM will be selling systems with SuSE installed later this year.

And you can build your own (by far the best option in many cases).

But read up on what BIOS features are included. There are some BIOSes
beginning to surface that pretty much lock you into Microsoft. That right
there will make me refuse to buy any pre-made systems, whether for home or
work (we use a lot of Linux machines for software testing in the group I
work in).
 
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Bill Van Dyk wrote:

> Yes, pardon me-- I did mean to refer to the past. We also now
> routinely buy our computers without an OS, but I believe that that is
> largely possible, at last, due to the DOJ actions a few years ago.
>

Yeah, when I bought my first PC, a 286, I specified DR-DOS because I was
used to working with "mini-computers" and was used to powerful command
lines and didn't want the pain of MS DOS. I really enjoyed DR-DOS. Then
came Windows 3.11 (I never liked Desk View) and I was forced to change
to MS DOS. I looked for a legal version of MS DOS but all I could find
was "upgrade versions" that *required* a previous version. In other
words I would have had to buy a new computer just to get a legal version
of DOS. So I did what everyone else did. And it didn't involve buying a
new PC.

Anyway, do you know of a good place to buy a laptop without an OS (for a
single home user as opposed to a large multi-unit purchase)?
 
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"Jan Panteltje" <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c5khn4$19jm$1@news.wplus.net...
> On a sunny day (Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:37:12 GMT) it happened "videoken"
>
<chekken_removethispart_u_andthispart_out_andthispart@yahooyouknowwhattodowi
th
>
>
> >Thanks for all the great replys...
> >
> >I think I'll have to look into how to do this right before I screw up my
> >production sytem. Can I install SuSE at any time or should I do it at the
> >same time I reformat and reinstall XP?
> >
> >Not to be redundant but here are my understandings of what has been said
so
> >far:
> >
> >I can install SuSE on the same partition as XP. Then after that, it is a
> >matter of having a fat 32 drive or partition so that I may use my results
in
> >xp if I have to. Also, can I 'send' files back to my linux OS by writing
> >them to the fat 32 drive in XP.
> >
> >Is that all correct?
> No, you CANNOT install Linux on the same partition as windows.
> You CAN install it on the same drive in a different partition.
> JP

You can if it's fat32, but it runs like a 2 legged dog.

Paul