[SOLVED] Who Can Design The Ultimate Laptop M.2 2230 NGFF Wireless Adapter First, Intel or Qualcomm?

[JamesAndersonJr]

Who do I need to ask:

Intel or Qualcomm

for the development of a laptop NGFF M.2 2230 wireless combo device, compatible with Wi-Fi 6E, Bluetooth 5.3, GPS, and a Cellular 4GLTE/5G Modem? Is this even possible with just the 2 white & black antennas commonly found in modern laptops, or simply a far-off fantasy?

 

[kanewolf]

Who do I need to ask:

Intel or Qualcomm

for the development of a laptop NGFF M.2 2230 wireless combo device, compatible with Wi-Fi 6E, Bluetooth 5.3, GPS, and a Cellular 4GLTE/5G Modem? Is this even possible with just the 2 white & black antennas commonly found in modern laptops, or simply a far-off fantasy?

All the features are not possible with the two wires.
GPS needs very different antennas.
Cellular frequencies depend on the carrier.
Even 6E with 6Ghz instead of 5Ghz may be a different antenna.

 

[bill001g]

The cables are not the key issue they could be rated for a large range of radio frequencies. Much more important would the antennas that are connected to far end of those cables. It is likely possible to manfacture antenna that would operate on both the wifi and cell radio bands but the antenna mounting and physical sizes are not even close to standard between laptops unlike m2 connectors.

In general every mobile broadband modem I have ever seen does not fit into the M2 slots you put wifi cards in.

Not sure about your question. If you really had the financial ability to contact intel or qualcomm and have them make custom devices you would not be asking this on a forum like this.

I mean qualcomm already makes massive numbers of similar chips for cell phones. They likely could just find a way to mount it on a m2 board and then write the driver software needed for the OS to be able to use it.

Realistically if there was a large demand for a product like this qualcomm would have already done it. Small scale stuff would be some of the independent companies from china. I would look on alibaba from china there are lots of manufactures advertising more or less custom made stuff. This is where a lot of the garbage clone wifi cards you see being sold on amazon by third party sellers come from. They will pretty much stamp any ones name on the product and ship it to the amazon warehouse.

 

[JamesAndersonJr]

Even 6E with 6Ghz instead of 5Ghz may be a different antenna.

@kanewolf Thanks for your helpful informative reply. I think there are a couple of things you should know, though:

1. Most, if not all, Wi-Fi 6E cards support 2.4GHz, 5GHz, and 6GHz. 6GHz does not replace 5GHz.
2. Typical replacement/upgrade Wi-Fi adapters (not combo cards, as I was inquiring about) use the same 2 (white & black) antennas as the card it replaces (including Wi-Fi 6E adapters). I.e., the 6GHz band should not require a "3rd" antenna. E.g., M.2 NGFF A key or E key Wi-Fi 6E adapters and Mini PCIe Wi-Fi 6E adapters.

 

[kanewolf]

@kanewolf Thanks for your helpful informative reply. I think there are a couple of things you should know, though:

1. Most, if not all, Wi-Fi 6E cards support 2.4GHz, 5GHz, and 6GHz. 6GHz does not replace 5GHz.
2. Typical replacement/upgrade Wi-Fi adapters (not combo cards, as I was inquiring about) use the same 2 (white & black) antennas as the card it replaces (including Wi-Fi 6E adapters). I.e., the 6GHz band should not require a "3rd" antenna. E.g., M.2 NGFF A key or E key Wi-Fi 6E adapters and Mini PCIe Wi-Fi 6E adapters.

I fully understand WIFI 6E. Functioning is different than designed for.

 

[JamesAndersonJr]

I mean qualcomm already makes massive numbers of similar chips for cell phones. They likely could just find a way to mount it on a m2 board and then write the driver software needed for the OS to be able to use it.

Realistically if there was a large demand for a product like this qualcomm would have already done it. Small scale stuff would be some of the independent companies from china. I would look on alibaba from china there are lots of manufactures advertising more or less custom made stuff. This is where a lot of the garbage clone wifi cards you see being sold on amazon by third party sellers come from. They will pretty much stamp any ones name on the product and ship it to the amazon warehouse.

@bill001g I'm ready to mark your response as the best, most thorough, and most logical answer. Though I do have one small question that I'd like an answer to before I do so:

If not a lot of laptops are, or can be, outfitted with mobile broadband (4GLTE/5G) adapters, what is Microsoft's reasoning behind spending time on the Mobile Plans app in the Windows Store versus improving on...oh, I don't know...something like Windows Fax and Scan (which is still stuck in the Vista era) which some people actually do still use? 🤔

 

[JamesAndersonJr]

I fully understand WIFI 6E. Functioning is different than designed for.

@kanewolf IDU. Can you please elaborate on what you're trying to say?

 

[kanewolf]

@kanewolf IDU. Can you please elaborate on what you're trying to say?

Your statement about "typical replacement adapters (even 6E) using the same two wires" ... That means they can function. That does not mean they were designed to optimize 6Ghz. They were designed for backward compatibility. So, functional but not designed for.

 

[JamesAndersonJr]

That means they can function. That does not mean they were designed to optimize 6Ghz.

Well...I guess, according to that, the next logical question is: What is optimized for Wi-Fi 6E (because the desktop version also uses 2 antennas)?

 

[kanewolf]

Well...I guess, according to that, the next logical question is: What is optimized for Wi-Fi 6E (because the desktop version also uses 2 antennas)?

It is the design of the antennas that is important. It may be the case that the RF designers were able to get sufficient gain over 5Ghz to 7Ghz. Or it may be that they said "it will be too expensive to add 6Ghz antennas, this will be close enough"... The place to look is what do routers or access points do? Do they have discrete antennas for 6Ghz? I have not specifically researched. But 6E hardware is still in the early stages. Give it a couple years and see what the antenna designs look like.

 

[bill001g]

@bill001g I'm ready to mark your response as the best, most thorough, and most logical answer. Though I do have one small question that I'd like an answer to before I do so:

If not a lot of laptops are, or can be, outfitted with mobile broadband (4GLTE/5G) adapters, what is Microsoft's reasoning behind spending time on the Mobile Plans app in the Windows Store versus improving on...oh, I don't know...something like Windows Fax and Scan (which is still stuck in the Vista era) which some people actually do still use? 🤔

I have no clue microsoft has all kinds of worthless apps so it is hard to say what this one really does.

Microsoft thinks everyone uses their dumb surface device. It is fairly common for tablet and other similar devices to have cell radios. A laptop is a more general purpose and space is important so there would have to be a need to put a extra slot into the machine.

The huge problem with mobile broadband is it is far from standard. The is a huge variation in radio frequencies even within a single provider they use a difference frequencies in different part of the country. This is why no matter how hard you try you are not going to find a cell phone that will work in every country....and this is ignoring the scummy companies placing artificial locks on the devices.

I mean they could add a internal slot for these modems but it tends to be simpler to just use external USB dongles.

On the topic of antenna design you need to go read the wikis on how things like antenna length are related to frequencies. The reason it works for common antenna for 2.4 and 5 is this is almost a exact multiple of 2. This tends to be a really complex topic, when you consider there are engineers who make their living doing just antenna design.

 

[gggplaya]

Do people even need cellular on their laptop? Most people just use their smartphone's as hotspots, even business people that use it frequently buy portable hotspots.

 

[JamesAndersonJr]

Do people even need cellular on their laptop? Most people just use their smartphone's as hotspots, even business people that use it frequently buy portable hotspots.

@gggplaya I see your point. Having a 4GLTE/5G mobile broadband modem in a laptop may turn out to be just as bad an idea as having a TV tuner card in a desktop nowadays. How would the connection be able to be used or shared without booting up your laptop...every...single...time? E.g., in the case of those old "designer", enthusiast, fad Hauppauge TV tuner cards of yesteryear, today, "network-attached" TV tuners such as HDHomeRun, and Tablo can be shared without booting up a computer. So now I feel something like a cellular modem should definitely be kept inside something network-attached, shared, small, low-power, and "always-on". Although I still wouldn't be against Qualcomm creating a single chip with Wi-Fi 6E, Bluetooth 5.3, and GNSS support, all rolled into one and attaching it to an M.2 2230 NGFF wireless adapter, just like @bill001g implied. Thanks, everyone! I think I'll wait about an hour or two for final thoughts and comments to roll in, and then mark @bill001g's initial comment as "Best Answer".