Why are homebuilt PCs called clones? Aren't those Apples?

vic20

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I understand that this came from "IBM Compatibles", but today shouldn't it have new meaning?

I mean every MAC is the same and white like a Lucas StormTrooper TM. These are clones.

Every brand of PC looks different, and every one we build ourselves is different.

Why don't they use 10 Glad Barbage Bag guys in the MAC commercials and then people of every shape size and color to represent PCs?
 

nioin3k

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Ignorant people are attracted to Macs because of their much more common then PC advertisements and some-what attractive computers.

PCs are extremely customizable compared to Macs, and can be uglier or more attractive depending on the money and work put into them. I can't think of anything Mac does better then PC.
 

vic20

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I totally agree.

Just find it totally ironic that MACs, the machines that are marketed at creative users, all look the same and totally lack creative design.

Whats the best they could ever come up with? I suppose the iPods would be the best hint...

Some new colors. Wow.

Anyone else agree the OS on the new iPhone looks JUST LIKE VISTA and Media Player 11?
 

3lfk1ng

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How about they actually work?

I disagree....
This is just from my experience, other users may find there experience not quite as dreadful.

My gf has had 4 macs (2 laptops, 2 desktops; she is a web designer) since I have lived with her. One of them had serious issues. The other three overheat or have very poor graphical performance.

Her Intel Core Apple notebook had every issue under the sun and failed to properly install things at least 50% of the time. It had it's logicboard replaced 3 times, 60gb hard drive twice, and the cd rom drive replaced as well becuase if It didnt fail to install, it would most likely fail to read the disk. It also shutdown or went to standby without warning when the computer was being used in any application.

Then

Her new laptop with the Core 2 Duo is fine but it's totally not worth the price for what it does.
My $800 Acer laptop does everything hers can do and mine runs games fine without overheating like hers does, her framerate is about 5 frames faster, but her laptop generates much more heat than mine and eventually shuts down.

Hers was $1299:
* 2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo Memrom
* 1GB memory
* 80GB hard drive
* Built in Webcam
* Overheats when playing World of Warcraft, extremely hot underneath
* Crappy Ventilation system (The fan blows towards the screen which is flat (the screen blocks the airflow)

vs Mine at $800 ....actually, I think I paid $900, but still:
* 1.6GHz AMD Turion 64 x2 (not as good as her Intel Core 2 Duo though)
* 1GB memory
* 120GB hard drive
* Built in webcam
* Cool as a cucumber and always on 24/7, cannot feel heat underneath it
* Removes hot air very efficiently through the side (nothing blocking it)

Thats enough reason to buy a pc laptop, I will admit that that her framrate is a little higher...but because it overheats...it's not worth it.

Also...

I just built my new computer:
a little less than $1,900.00
DFI rd600
Intel Core 2 e6600 L630A983
Vigor gaming Monsoon II TEC
H.I.S x1950xt IceQ 3 Turbo
Corsair Dominator 8500CL5 2gb
Sony Dru-820a
LG GSAH22N
Seagate 7200.10 2x250 (500GB)
OCZ Gamexstream 850watt
Crystalfontz 635

She just bought a new one about 2 months ago (then new 24" iMac)
$1,999.00
Intel Core 2 duo Memrom 2.16ghz
250gb HDD
Nvidia 7300gt
1gb memory

...now tell me, who got the better bang for the buck, thats right, I did! No contest, hands down.

To make things worse, her new iMac freezes once every ~45min when playing World of Warcraft because her iMac gets too hot. When the game is running there are graphical errors that weren't present on her previous machine, such as polygonal spikes and texture glitches/malfunctions. To buy a new graphics card for it costs a crap load too, because it's not the G5, it's the iMac :roll. The best graphics card she can get is a mesely 7600gt :evil:

Macs are a ripoff imo. If they actually worked really well (as they should for how much people are getting ripped of just to buy one) then I wouldn't have any complaints. But having to take her to get her Mac's repaired and replaced just shows the machines blow.

She has issues with her Macs all the time, but because her work requires a mac and all of the programs she use are specifically made for Macs she has no choice.

I'm sure some people have had great experiences with a Mac, but for my girlfriend and I ...well, you know the story.

And quantumsheep
"How about they actually work?"

I have not had any issues with any of the PC's I have owned...besides not flashing bios on the first computer I built. Everyone of my machines have been rock solid. If your having issues with your pc, then it must be a personal issue or something.

Everyone of her friends that owns a Mac (like , about 16 of em) will call BS on that, because they have all had issues with there Macs. They say that Pc and Macs both have there problems, and I agree. I don't think one platform has more or less errors than the other, I think they both have there troubles, and that I have just had a sour experience (bad luck I guess)

But price:performance wise, a PC just cannot be beat. Especially because you can build one.

That's just my experience and my 2 cents
~3lfk1ng
 

vic20

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The last time I checked MAC OS does not ship with a black skin, with black backgrounds. Quicktime has always been gray, so they sure as hell didn't get it from that either. I swear when I watched the iPod launch I was looking at a Vista ad.
 

LVDAX

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Ignorant people are attracted to Macs because of their much more common then PC advertisements and some-what attractive computers.

PCs are extremely customizable compared to Macs, and can be uglier or more attractive depending on the money and work put into them. I can't think of anything Mac does better then PC.

Wow i couldn't have said it better myself...
~Cheers
 

LVDAX

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I can't think of anything Mac does better then PC.

How about they actually work?

I'm a PC user by the way.

they work?? Have you ever had to support them on a large enterprise network?? They work after you have to redesign the network just so they can...

NOTE: not a flame towards you just trying to make a point

~Cheers
 

Oldguy

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Jeez, guys. lotsa folks bought Yugo's too. They were "cute". Could not do much with them but go from A to B, were useless after a couple of years, parts were non-existent. There is just a certain segment of the population whose emotional state require that they be members of contrarian cults, whether reality supports their views or not. But ,hey, if the cultists ever manage a produce a real computer that the whole population could use, was price/performance competitive and managed to play games as well...I'll take a look-provided I can house in a non- Jonestown case.
 

sailer

Splendid
I think the "clones" part came a few decades ago when IBM still had its OS proprietary, but some manufactorers were biulding ways to get around it. As it was explained to me way back in the dark ages, IBM had a code line that went something like "This is a genuine IBM product", while the clones put in a line that said "This is NOT a genuine IBM product". Computers being as they are, they ignored the word NOT and just read the rest of the line, allowing the machine and software to function. Thus the mimicked, or "cloned" the abilities of a genuine IBM. At a later time, IBM gave up and sold the licencing so that anyone could build computers or software for their OS, as long as a licencing fee was paid.

Aplle never did this, which is one reason that IBM grew by leaps and bounds, why Apple went nowwhere.
 

pmr

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The last time I checked MAC OS does not ship with a black skin, with black backgrounds. Quicktime has always been gray, so they sure as hell didn't get it from that either. I swear when I watched the iPod launch I was looking at a Vista ad.

you want colors?

here you go
gay_flag_250x400.jpg


And when you know something about computers, don't be afraid to post :wink:
 

pmr

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As a mac user, by now I can only recommend mac pro workstations and macbooks. never an imac (has too many cons).

The consumer has to choose the machine by the software he wants to use. Or if he's dumb, just for the looks.
 

Bobsama

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I'd definately call Mac a clone-trooper. PC is much better when you build it yourself... more bang-for-your-buck and much more flexible. It's like ordering from Dell when you order from Apple; everything looks the same (and ugly) and the different options are too expensive for lo-quality junk.
 

reconviperone1

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How about they actually work?

I disagree....
This is just from my experience, other users may find there experience not quite as dreadful.

My gf has had 4 macs (2 laptops, 2 desktops; she is a web designer) since I have lived with her. One of them had serious issues. The other three overheat or have very poor graphical performance.

Her Intel Core Apple notebook had every issue under the sun and failed to properly install things at least 50% of the time. It had it's logicboard replaced 3 times, 60gb hard drive twice, and the cd rom drive replaced as well becuase if It didnt fail to install, it would most likely fail to read the disk. It also shutdown or went to standby without warning when the computer was being used in any application.

Then

Her new laptop with the Core 2 Duo is fine but it's totally not worth the price for what it does.
My $800 Acer laptop does everything hers can do and mine runs games fine without overheating like hers does, her framerate is about 5 frames faster, but her laptop generates much more heat than mine and eventually shuts down.

Hers was $1299:
* 2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo Memrom
* 1GB memory
* 80GB hard drive
* Built in Webcam
* Overheats when playing World of Warcraft, extremely hot underneath
* Crappy Ventilation system (The fan blows towards the screen which is flat (the screen blocks the airflow)

vs Mine at $800 ....actually, I think I paid $900, but still:
* 1.6GHz AMD Turion 64 x2 (not as good as her Intel Core 2 Duo though)
* 1GB memory
* 120GB hard drive
* Built in webcam
* Cool as a cucumber and always on 24/7, cannot feel heat underneath it
* Removes hot air very efficiently through the side (nothing blocking it)

Thats enough reason to buy a pc laptop, I will admit that that her framrate is a little higher...but because it overheats...it's not worth it.

Also...

I just built my new computer:
a little less than $1,900.00
DFI rd600
Intel Core 2 e6600 L630A983
Vigor gaming Monsoon II TEC
H.I.S x1950xt IceQ 3 Turbo
Corsair Dominator 8500CL5 2gb
Sony Dru-820a
LG GSAH22N
Seagate 7200.10 2x250 (500GB)
OCZ Gamexstream 850watt
Crystalfontz 635

She just bought a new one about 2 months ago (then new 24" iMac)
$1,999.00
Intel Core 2 duo Memrom 2.16ghz
250gb HDD
Nvidia 7300gt
1gb memory

...now tell me, who got the better bang for the buck, thats right, I did! No contest, hands down.

To make things worse, her new iMac freezes once every ~45min when playing World of Warcraft because her iMac gets too hot. When the game is running there are graphical errors that weren't present on her previous machine, such as polygonal spikes and texture glitches/malfunctions. To buy a new graphics card for it costs a crap load too, because it's not the G5, it's the iMac :roll. The best graphics card she can get is a mesely 7600gt :evil:

Macs are a ripoff imo. If they actually worked really well (as they should for how much people are getting ripped of just to buy one) then I wouldn't have any complaints. But having to take her to get her Mac's repaired and replaced just shows the machines blow.

She has issues with her Macs all the time, but because her work requires a mac and all of the programs she use are specifically made for Macs she has no choice.

I'm sure some people have had great experiences with a Mac, but for my girlfriend and I ...well, you know the story.

And quantumsheep
"How about they actually work?"

I have not had any issues with any of the PC's I have owned...besides not flashing bios on the first computer I built. Everyone of my machines have been rock solid. If your having issues with your pc, then it must be a personal issue or something.

Everyone of her friends that owns a Mac (like , about 16 of em) will call BS on that, because they have all had issues with there Macs. They say that Pc and Macs both have there problems, and I agree. I don't think one platform has more or less errors than the other, I think they both have there troubles, and that I have just had a sour experience (bad luck I guess)

But price:performance wise, a PC just cannot be beat. Especially because you can build one.

That's just my experience and my 2 cents
~3lfk1ng


Im kinda hurt you called the 7600gt measly, just you wait until i get my 8600 ultra :?
 

pmr

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I'd definately call Mac a clone-trooper. PC is much better when you build it yourself... more bang-for-your-buck and much more flexible. It's like ordering from Dell when you order from Apple; everything looks the same (and ugly) and the different options are too expensive for lo-quality junk.

What part of what I have said you didn't understand?
Expensive? Maybe the macbooks. not the others.
Give me a same spec workstation at the same price of a mac pro.
 

pmr

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Where is your 24" monitor? is in the price?
I don't consider the imacs expensive, if you keep in mind the way they mount a pc attached to a monitor, which increases production costs and time. But yes, they have too many cons. If you have a problem you can´t open it and solve the problem. or if you need to replace some part that has gone boom, if have to send all the compute to maintenance.
 

unsmart

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What I think is great is that apples ad about how pc's suck came at the same time they switched Intel and became a pc. Now there pushing the fact you can run windows on a mac. Apple is just dell with less option now and there own OS. They gave up and just became a software company kind of sad really. Really what mac people hate is windows,they don't even realize you could put Linux on a pc and it's all most a mac at a fraction of the cost.
 

rockyjohn

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I sure don't understand all this petty dumping on Apple computers. My first two computers were Apple - back when you had to almost be a programmer to operate an IBM computer - but since then I switched to pc's (its ironic how IBM was allowed to steal that designation) to have access to the larger software selection for it. I don't see ever going back - but I see no reason to dump on Apple.
It serves a particular market for certain designers and for people who want the simplicity of intergreated hardware and sofware with ease of use and dependibility.
There was a time when Apple was the enginerring leading and innovator - including in hardware appearance. So they are not now because they have so many competitors. Still no reason to trash them.
Dell appeals to certain markets. Other suppliers - included component supplies for the BYOB crowd appeal to different markets. Apple has a niche just like everyone else.
All the dumping is very juvenile.
 

vic20

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I totally agree with you.

I don't dump on Apple because they obviously fill a niche, seeing as they still sell a lot of machines and are available everywhere.

1) I just hate the way they market their product. Its totally based on fallacies.

Their lack of viruses comes from the fact most of us don't have one and their reliability comes from lack of software choices (as they are so strictly regulated). If we all bought Macs, they'd have to loosen up control to developers (who would make buggy apps) and MAC OS would suddenly be prime targets for ad/spy/malware/trojans/etc. because of market share.

2) Their cosmetic design is out of place with their software design.

I agree MAC is a gorgeous OS. Thats why MS ripped it off for Vista. But why put such pretty software inside of a glossy, cutesy white box? The new iPhone is so appealing (to even non-Apple folk) because its a nice change from the iPod/iMAC. It shares nothing in traditional Apple design. The black and silver hardware looks like something SONY would design, and the software is not blue/silver/white. It reminds me of the Optimus keyboard. The only hint Apple had anything to do with it is the fact that the icons are MAC OS caliber. Who is copying who now with all the black on black marketing? Apple/SONY(PSP,PS3)/MS? Take your pick.

Give me a MAC themed around the iPhone, and I just might change my mind on buying one.
 

vic20

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I buy a lot of things based on looks. Maybe that makes me dumb. Oh well.

You accuse me of not knowing anything about computers, but you don't see me buying an ASROCK motherboard, let alone being proud enough to put it in my sig. Bet you're proud of posting your picture too.