Why Intel and AMD keep rolling out CPUs and chipsets?

[modeonoff]

I don't follow CPU technologies but it seems that rather than making bug-free CPUs, these companies keep rolling out new CPUs and chipsets that are mediocre and similar. I have a hard time in deciding which one to buy. Why they keep doing that? Why don't they just focus on getting rid of meltdown and spectre bugs first?

 

[USAFRet]

Each new line is (usually) a little bit better than the last one.
Sometimes, a lot better.

Bug free? Actually, there is no such thing for a reasonable price.
Bug free hardware and software could be sort of produced, but you and I absolutely could not afford it.

 

[Eximo]

Create products, review sales figures and trends, improve products, review sales figures and trends, improve products, ad infinitum. If they stopped to make sure everything was perfect they wouldn't be able to compete in the marketplace. Also, the designers are human.

 

[modeonoff]

Thanks. What suggestion do you have in regard to my case? 7900X (buggy so I don't want to spend big money on), 8700K (only 1 GPU at x16), Threadripper (no AVX-512 support), Cascade Lake (with spectre/meltdown bug fixes at hardware level but may not show up until 2019 since Intel just announced delay in 10nm CPU).

 

[USAFRet]

And the Smeltdown issues are not necessarily "bugs".
Rather, they are the result of design decisions that were made years ago, and just now a low level exploit has been found for them.

Basically:
"In the interest of speed/performance, let's try to 'predict' what the CPU needs to do next"
(years later) 'Oh goody...I think I can exploit that'

If that design had not been built into the process, the performance back then would have been slower.
And no one would have known the difference.
What they are trying to do now is to maintain the same speed, but with some different type of 'prediction'. Something not as exploitable.

CPU's that are in the short term pipeline, almost ready for market...those were on the design table years ago.
It takes a lot to change the course of a large ship like that.

Somewhere deep in the bowels of AMD and Intel...CPU's 3 generations from now are already being designed.
Now....predict what exploits might come about in 2025 or 2030, and make it so it can't happen...

 

[k19_window_maker]

two reasons : call of duty games and iphones

 

[modeonoff]

Hard to decide. If I buy the Threadripper, I will buy the 1900X rather than the 1950X as I don't need that many cores and the 1950X has lower clock speed than the 1900X. So, Threadripper 1900X vs. i7-8700k. The 1900X allows 2 GPUs x16 so that might be better but the 8700K has built-in graphics chips to support 4K monitor already.

Actually, which platform is better Intel Z370, Z390 or AMD X399?

 

[USAFRet]

Actually, which platform is better Intel Z370, Z390 or AMD X399?

Rhetorical question...
"Better" for what?

Define "better".

 

[modeonoff]

Better for doing scientific computations using GPU and CUDA, something after the X299 but not as expensive.

 

[USAFRet]

Better for doing scientific computations using GPU and CUDA, something after the X299 but not as expensive.

So you want better than brand new cutting edge, but also less expensive.
hmm.....

 

[modeonoff]

If X299 had no meltdown and spectre issues, I would have made the system even it is the most expensive already.

 

[The Paladin]

why do Intel and Amd make new product every 6-12 months... why do car manufacturers have a new model every year? why do pizza hut have the "new montly special"

its a beautiful capitalistic world , and every one wants you to believe in the new and improved even if often its isn't worth it.
define needs clearly and you will be surprised that the latest and greatest isn't required most of the time.
Best use something that works... wait 4-5 years then get a true upgrade to your computer system

 

[modeonoff]

It wasn't like that over 30 years ago. There were only a few computers to select from. Very easy to choose. Now it is very confusing. Sometimes products look very good on paper but actually it could be slower due to the ways things are implemented. Manufacturers won't tell you that.

 

[mdd1963]

Thanks. What suggestion do you have in regard to my case? 7900X (buggy so I don't want to spend big money on), 8700K (only 1 GPU at x16), Threadripper (no AVX-512 support), Cascade Lake (with spectre/meltdown bug fixes at hardware level but may not show up until 2019 since Intel just announced delay in 10nm CPU).

It also does 2 GPUs at x8, however, and as no existing GPU has yet saturated the even x8 lanes if PCI-e 3.0 bandwidth, then PCI-e 3.0 is still of sufficient bandwidth/speed. (Think of it as akin to demanding faster SATA for a spinning 7200 rpm hard drive which will never exceed ~200 MB/sec transfers anyway) There are a few misguided folks who bought X99 solely for the better 'sounding' PCI-e 16 +16 lanes GPU config, only to have the rigs outframed/outperformed by similarly equipped Z170/6700K rigs....; go figure

 

[modeonoff]

Speaking of these miss-leading PCIe thing... I often found it confusing.

Anybody knows the ROG Zeith Extreme motherboard well? Actually how many high end 1080Ti or more advanced GPUs can this motherboard run concurrently at top speed of x16? (I know for gaming x8 is sufficient but for my work, x16 makes a different.)

Also, if I add a slower GPU only for driving a 4K monitor, will its presence slows down the other GPUs that are running at top speed of x16?

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/ROG-ZENITH-EXTREME/

 

[USAFRet]

It wasn't like that over 30 years ago. There were only a few computers to select from. Very easy to choose. Now it is very confusing. Sometimes products look very good on paper but actually it could be slower due to the ways things are implemented. Manufacturers won't tell you that.

30 years ago (late 80's-early 90's), there were FAR more individual consumer level computer companies than there are now.
Far more.

And people like me were perusing Computer Shopper, buying parts, and trying to get the driver order correct to actually load everything in the available RAM. Back before RAM crossed the $100 per megabyte level.

Today, it is all plug and play, just in different cases with various levels of blinken lights.

 

[TerryLaze]

30 years ago (late 80's-early 90's), there were FAR more individual consumer level computer companies than there are now.
Far more.

And people like me were perusing Computer Shopper, buying parts, and trying to get the driver order correct to actually load everything in the available RAM. Back before RAM crossed the $100 per megabyte level.

Today, it is all plug and play, just in different cases with various levels of blinken lights.

I think you are confusing your memes here....
Early 80s there where sinclair and c64 mid 80s to mid 90s there was amiga and atariST that was it,everything else was niche like the cpc in the 80s or the acorn in the 90s.
And we are talking about 64kbit and 512kbit mem here.

 

[USAFRet]

I think you are confusing your memes here....
Early 80s there where sinclair and c64 mid 80s to mid 90s there was amiga and atariST that was it,everything else was niche like the cpc in the 80s or the acorn in the 90s.
And we are talking about 64kbit and 512kbit mem here.

80386 systems were on store shelves in 86-87. That qualifies as "mid 80's"
80486 systems were in the stores in 91-92. That qualifies as "early 90's"
I had an AST 486SX-33. Bought in '92, I believe.
Previous to that, a couple of XT systems, and a C-64. Still have the C-64, in its original box. It still works.

 

[The Paladin]

suddenly I miss my cp/m O/S Z80 desktop computer... (circa 1980)

hehe plug an play....my first personal computer was a TRS-80 Model 1 (1979) and with Radio shack selling close to 100,000 units, it wasn't a Sinclair (which was basically a toy compared to the TRS80) and upgrading a TRS80 Model 4 from 64KB to 128KB (1983) mean soldering and wire wrapping was involved, and it was a personal computer , the 8088 was the first " PC from IBM " sold retail I think.. and that was 1981-82 that's early 80's as well

notes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80
"By 1979, the TRS-80 had the largest selection of software in the microcomputer market. Until 1982, the TRS-80 was the best-selling PC line, outselling the Apple II series by a factor of 5 according to one analysis"

 

[Tim Gueguen]

notes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80
"By 1979, the TRS-80 had the largest selection of software in the microcomputer market. Until 1982, the TRS-80 was the best-selling PC line, outselling the Apple II series by a factor of 5 according to one analysis"

Interesting. I never saw one in the flesh, or heard of anyone owning one. My first encounter with computers was using Apple IIs in grade school.

 

[USAFRet]

notes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80
"By 1979, the TRS-80 had the largest selection of software in the microcomputer market. Until 1982, the TRS-80 was the best-selling PC line, outselling the Apple II series by a factor of 5 according to one analysis"

Interesting. I never saw one in the flesh, or heard of anyone owning one. My first encounter with computers was using Apple IIs in grade school.

I have a coworker that has one. And brags about it.
Much like my Commodore VIC-20 and C-64, that still work.

 

[The Paladin]

USAFRET lol I gave away 2 TRS-80 Model III and a Model 4 with 2 Line Printers (30 inch dot matrix), Hard Drive (whoo 5MB) and all the manuals and disks I had collected over the years (all in 720mb diskettes btw as I had done a conversion from 5.25 (185kb disk) to 720 1.44mb, when I moved to the Usa in 1997, (used to run a Bulletin Board system ( WWIV BBS ) in the late 80's early 90's with it) just had to let it go, but the 2 guys that grabbed them where ecstatic ahah.. if you look on enay they still sell 300-400 USD.

Tim Gueguen
that's is because you where in grade school and apple was pushing the mouse with graphical interfaces (something they stole from Zenith I believe) , the TR80 and IBM where aimed at programmers and business models., then played catchup later with windows.


Note:why yes the "internet" as you know it existed in text form before some politician states he invented it in 1995.. lol