why would you want an alternative to nVidia

dttdar

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I've heard so many people say that ATI is for those that want an alternative to nVidia, but there's no logic in that statement.

Currently, nVidia makes the best cards; Some of their cheaper cards even outperform the fastest Radeon. So why would anyone purposely go out and buy a sub-par performance card?

I'll never understand it.

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sorry, but I'm still stuck in the Pentium III world
 

LonMax

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Well, It only took me about 5-10 minutes of browsing this form to find out why.... cause Nvidia is only better for games, gameboy (Trollboy?) .... high end Business Apps like Autocad run better on ATI chipstes from what I saw here.... don't know if it is true, but at least I read a little.

Your sig says it all anyway......
 

OptimusPerrine

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Subject: Re: why would you want an alternative to nVidia

One reason:
By now you've possibly noticed that there are some seemingly consistent compatibility issues with the GeForce 4 cards and the GA-7VRXP. So there are some people with that particular mobo who would like to have a card they can order without that sinking feeling in their gut they're about to be eatin' a big ol' frustration sandwich.

Another reason:
If there is a competitive alternative, that creates economic pressure that might lead to lower prices now and higher standards next time around.

Another reason:
Choosing between an peach and a . . . peach just doesn't feel as significant as choosing between a peach and an apple.

The G4's seem like the best deal going to me, too, but it's not that tough to see why people might at least want to see what else there is out there. And a capitalist system kinda depends on economic vigor from a competitive market.

Just my two cents.



---------
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
 

flamethrower205

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No, it's not true, since in CAD, Quadro 4 has the upper hand (although I'll give it to ATI that their FireGL8800 beats Quadro 4 in most cases).

My frog asked me for a straw...dunno what happened he's all over the place :eek:
 

WolfenGamer

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well, the reason i might buy an ati card is because (it looks like) my abit at7 mobo's dimm slot placement will prevent a LONG, HUGE, ti 4600 card from even fitting.
if anyone knows which kt333 mobo's DON'T have this problem, please reply. thanks
-ps i left a message on the board about this subject if you want to reply to it (please do).
peace.
:)

Wait a minute... Hold on... I'm supposed to do what?!
 

AMD_Man

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Arguably better image quality, clearly superior DVD features and quality, extreme anisotropic filtering performance (faster than Ti4600 in some cases) and cheaper.

Can nVidia sell a better card for $99 US (64MB) or $159 (128MB)? I don't think so.

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
 

flamethrower205

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Um no actually, not better image quality that GF4, and FYI, it really depends on the filter for GF3, I've seen some that'll kick an R8500's ass.

My frog asked me for a straw...dunno what happened he's all over the place :eek:
 

dttdar

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Here's some info for you:

I don't even play pc games, just console games. I'm a web designer and image quality is important to me. Unfourtanetly, image quality is not that different on a 8500 or a 4200, or at least not different enough for anyone to easily notice. That's exactly why I'm anticipating the Parhelia.

Another thing, calling me a troll was easily brushed off my shoulder, but when you joke my sig, you cross the line (j/j) Besides, I love my PIII-S 1.4

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sorry, but I'm still stuck in the Pentium III world
 

Rebe7254

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I have an Asus A7V333 with the KT333 chipset and my Ti4400 (which is the same size as the Ti4600) fits just fine.

AMD Athlon XP 1900+, Asus A7V333, 512mb DDR RAM
PNY Geforce4 Ti4400, Win2k
 

xXxMuSaShIxXx

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simply put I live in canada I own a geforce 3 ti200 and a Radron 8500 ASUS made geforce 3 and ATI made RADEON the geforce 3 costs $300 the 8500 is $200 I get much higher benchmarkes with my ATI also Soldier of fortune 2 and ghost recon I get much better frame rates with my ATI also I run a XP 1800+ with my ATI and 1900+ with my geforce both 512 ddr rame and same mobo! even with a faster mobo the more expensive geforce 3 performs worse than my 8500.

PEACE MuS@ShI
 

WingDing

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What about giving nVidia a bit of competition to keep prices sensible? Or is that the type of common sense that should have been applied BEFORE you wrote such a brainless question?

Sex is great but it's no substitute for the real thing.....
 

Crashman

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Because graphics features like Trueform on the Radeon 8500 make GeForce graphics look like higher resulution versions of old Nintendo 64 stuff. Becaue the Radeon DV has a lot of kewl video features. Because you can get a Radeon 8500LE for $100, a retail for $130, and even the DV for only $200.

What's the frequency, Kenneth?
 

baldurga

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Yes, I agree with most of the people. Competition is good for consumer, maybe Radeon is not the best for games but has other features that made it interesting for other applications, etc.

But wait a little bit to see what ATI can offer us this summer. The new generation of graphic cards looks really good :)

DIY: read, buy, test, learn, reward yourself!
 

dttdar

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maybe I should of called this post: Why would gamers want an alternative to nVidia?

Let's be serious here; If I'm a hardcore gamer and I want the best performing card, I'm going to get the GF4.

I do believe that there are special occasions: Knowing that the 8500 offers better image quality, if that was something that was very important to me, then I'd get the 8500. But like I said that's a *special occassion and most people have game performance on the mind.

And just so you know that I'm not an nVidiot. I've got an old ATI Xpert 2000. I bought a GF4 TI4400 just to benchmark it, then I returned it a few hours later.

I'm looking at this from a standpoint of pure logic, not brand loyaltism. Personally, I don't care what brand it is, I just want the better performer.

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sorry, but I'm still stuck in the Pentium III world
 

bront

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"performance" is in the eye of the beholder.

Some people want acceptable framerates with high quality video output.

Some people enjoy the extra features offered in a card.

Some people enjoy different driver options.

Performance is still a subjective thing when there are aspects to it beyond simple numbers. Sure, the TI4600 is great and gives some nice framerates, but the TI4200 is darn close to the 8500 at times, and there are other reasons people might like an 8500 over a TI4200.

Why would people want an alternitive? Because they want to be able to get a good product for a good price, and that's hard to do with no "alternitives".

"Search your feelings you know it to be true, I am your... twin sister" - Darth Vader
 

flamethrower205

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I'm sorry, but that is the worst ripoff ever! $300 for a Ti200?? WTF were u on when u bought that? Plus, GF3ti200 wasn't made to go againt R8500- R8500 was aimed at Ti500.

My frog asked me for a straw...dunno what happened he's all over the place :eek:
 

cakecake

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There are lots of opinions and I think ATi and nvidia both can come pretty close when it comes to the gaming market. Not in terms of sales, but in terms of enthusiasts because everyone knows that nvidia dominates the rest of the market for the most part.

Why nvidia and not ATi?

-extreme performance, but this is really only offered by two cards, the ti4400 and the ti4600 the two most expensive 3d gaming cards out there right now
-name brand, or you've bought nvidia before
-decent drivers, a hell of a lot better than ATi's early driver releases
-speed, speed, speed - again, some people may just be tired of crap framerates or may believe that speed=quality
-name brand again, most gamers you ask on message boards will say that nvidia is good and ATi is crap (those bad early driver releases can really ruin your reputation)

Why would you want ATi?
-better anisotropic filtering and truform
-better image quality in games when both FSAA and anisotropic filtering are turned on. As opposed to quincunx which may be 15% faster but blurs the image
-better DVD
-they want to support the competition and are sick of the computer industry being dominated by companies whom the governments cannot regulate (hehe thats me)-Taiwan has no antitrust or anti-monopoly laws that I know of and if they do they're pure bull probably (Taiwan has a lot of political corruption) and the U.S. doesn't want to hurt its economy (especially with unemployment @ 5.8%)
-if you want an all in one multimedia package (all in wonder cards) or if you want to overclock your card currently the 8500 does pretty good meaning better cost/performance ratio if your OC succeeds

I would say they're pretty much the same although some may be avid nvidia or ati supporters. But nvidia does rule in speed, I would agree.

Censorship makes us so much more creative.
 

pr497

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he lives in canada...gf3 cards are grossly overpriced up there...
anywhoo...the gf4 is nothing more than a really fast gf3...and beside...the R8500 wasnt made to compete with the gf4 (the ti4200 is probably an exception)....ati wont have a card to compete with the gf4 line of cards because they are skipping this line of cards entirely and they're working on a card (R300) thats supposed to compete with nvidia's next gen. card (gf5?)...
anyways...i wouldnt want to buy a gf4 ti4600 (unless i had a lot of money to burn) so i can get 300+ fps on quake3...
as long as a card can maintain at least 50 fps on any setting ...then that card would be good enough for me.


:eek: <b>Who fixed <font color=red>ATI</font color=red>'s leaky faucet??</b> :eek:

EDIT: grammer correction...i really need to proof read.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by pr497 on 06/12/02 01:08 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

gal128

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Let's clear a few things up.

nVidia makes a better product hands down point blank period.

G4Ti4200 w/64MB is about $160 and it runs with the big dawg (Ti4600) in benchmarks. Check out GamePC's review of the Ti4200 w/128MB and you will see the 4200 running way to close to 4600.

With that said ATI makes a good product that is extremely affordable and comes with way more options then nVidia.

For professional apps ELSA used to run things but they went belly up and if you are going to run things that need serious OpenGL you are either going Creative (for the WildCATs if you have that kind of dough) or nVidia for the Quadro4 750 which is the same price as ATI's Fire GL 8800. But it just so happens the 750 owns the 8800 and that is why they are hard to get your hands on. Also there is the Quadro4 900 which is just mindblowing but cost twice as much as the 750 or the 8800. But the latest word is that ATI is making a comeback with something after the 8800; and whatever it is, it's supposed to make the Q4 900 look like Vlade taking on SHAQ, esp. in the new Wildfire version of PRO-E that hits in Sept. We'll have to wait and see.

HULK SMASH!!!
 

pr497

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...and whatever it is, it's supposed to make the Q4 900 look like Vlade taking on SHAQ...
vlade is a flop and a dumba$$...
nuff said.

:eek: <b>Who fixed <font color=red>ATI</font color=red>'s leaky faucet??</b> :eek:
 

williamc

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What, you wanna know the real reason? Okay, the real reason is everyone has some form and quantity of bias, its impossible not to. So, some people will always dislike nvidia, and some people will always dislike ATI. I don't give a flyin fart. More competition = better graphics cards faster and better support from everyone (New Nvidia drivers released today, YAY!, i'm serious, they're posted on nvidia's site) so everyone should go home happy at the end of the day.

Some companies will always do individual things better than others which means there's always advantages and disadvantages to each graphics card and a person's choice should relect what they want out of their graphics card. Some people still buy Matrox G450's for a damn good reason.

My personal experience was i bought a Radeon 64 cause it was less expensive and advertised as having the same basic features as the GF 2 Ultra. I got burned, the Radeon 64 was a piece of @$$ and i hated it radically, this was my first non 3dfx 3d card btw. So, i exchanged it for a GF2 Ultra and paid the big money. Been happy ever since, never had someting not work with nvidia, never been burned or dissatisfied and love their support (frequent driver updates). So me personally, i'm a Nvidia guy. But for someone who's first card is an 8500 retail, I imagine they'll like ATI just fine as a company.

Thanks for starting another flamewar newb.

The itsy bitsy spider climbed up the empires state building, along came goblin, wiped the spider out
 

dttdar

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...the gf4 is nothing more than a really fast gf3...and beside...the R8500 wasnt made to compete with the gf4 (the ti4200 is probably an exception)....
You're right! The R8500 was made to compete against the gf3, but it barely does a good job at doing it. In most cases it ties the GF3. I thought that in true competition, you're supposed to beat the competitor, not try to tie them; am I right?

ati wont have a card to compete with the gf4 line of cards because they are skipping this line of cards entirely and they're working on a card (R300)
I won't lie to you, I'm excited about the R300, but won't it be a shame if they still can't beat nVidia and their next-gen card. All that work for nothing...

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sorry, but I'm still stuck in the Pentium III world
 

UoMDeacon

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Sure TruForm looks great on the older games, but it seems to be a technology that is being passed up on the newer games? As I have read <A HREF="http://www.beyond3d.com/interviews/carmackdoom3/" target="_new">here</A> TruForm cannot be used with the new Doom III engine.

As for the superior DVD performance, I really see no point in having hardware functions for DVDs anymore given the power of modern processors like the P4 and Athlon XPs. Does the Radeon offer that much better quality? I've watched movies on a Radeon card before with a Sony monitor along with movies on a GF3, I have never noticed much of a difference. Please enlighten? ;)
 

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