[SOLVED] Why Z390 and i9-9900K?

[modeonoff]

Hi, while I am searching for memory for my system, I noticed that Z390 motherboards only support dual channel but can remain stable with faster RAM at 4000. Together with i9-9900K, will such system be faster than X299 system with quad channels RAM of 3200? What are the advantageous of going for Z390 and 9900K? I think the i9-9900K is as hot as the 7900X but the latter has more PCI lanes.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Is this a gaming or productivity machine?

 

[Supernova1138]

The 9900k can clock higher than the X299 CPUs and also uses the ring bus, so there is less latency between cores. For single thread dependent tasks and things like gaming, that makes the 9900k a better choice than any of the X299 options. X299 only really makes sense if you have an application that can utilize lots of cores, eg. more than 8, or your application's performance is heavily bound by memory bandwidth, in which case Quad Channel RAM can help. Even then, with AMD offering more cores and PCI-E lanes for less money with their Threadripper CPUs, it makes the X299 platform generally a hard sell unless what you're doing runs a lot better on Intel chips or you need certain Intel exclusive features like Thunderbolt support.

 

[modeonoff]

Is this a gaming or productivity machine?

4K gaming and doing research (24x7 computer simulations) on the same machine.

 

[modeonoff]

The 9900k can clock higher than the X299 CPUs and also uses the ring bus, so there is less latency between cores. For single thread dependent tasks and things like gaming, that makes the 9900k a better choice than any of the X299 options. X299 only really makes sense if you have an application that can utilize lots of cores, eg. more than 8, or your application's performance is heavily bound by memory bandwidth, in which case Quad Channel RAM can help. Even then, with AMD offering more cores and PCI-E lanes for less money with their Threadripper CPUs, it makes the X299 platform generally a hard sell unless what you're doing runs a lot better on Intel chips or you need certain Intel exclusive features like Thunderbolt support.

Thanks. I see. Unfortunately, for compatibility of the scientific programs I use, I am stuck with Intel.

Z390 motherboards only have 4 slots. Initially I need 32GB but I might need 64GB later. Not sure yet. In this case, what suggestion do you have?

If case of going for 32GB, should I choose 16GBx2 (and hope that with I need more, there will be no compatibility issue due to different bins) or 8GBx4? Since Z390 supports dual channel memory, will the system perform faster when I do 16GBx2 rather than 8GBx4?

 

[Darkbreeze]

The 9900k is faster in practically everything, regardless that the 7900x has quad channel memory architecture. The gains of quad channel do not even come close to the gains in clock speed and IPC on the 9900k, and that's without factoring in the potential for an overclock.

https://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/3378-intel-9900k-cpu-review-solder-vs-paste-delid-gaming-benchmarks-vs-2700x/page-4


If you look at the comparisons between the 8700k and 7740x here, it's probably at least marginally comparative considering that for most things you are not going to see more than 8 threads being used by any one application or game anyhow. In fact, I don't know of any that can utilize more than that, although certainly multitasking with additional applications and the OS processes themselves usually take some benefit from those.

https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/2109?vs=1907

There are few processes that are even marginally limited by memory bandwidth once you go beyond dual channel.

 

[modeonoff]

Thanks. As mentioned, I plan to build a workstation for both 4K gaming in Windows and research under Linux. Since sometimes I may need to keep the machine on for days for long-term simulations, is the Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Xtreme a good motherboard to buy? It seems to be better than the Master. Any other suggestion?

 

[Darkbreeze]

I don't think you need anything that costly. Reliability is pretty much the same for very high end motherboards as it is for the high end of the medium tiered boards. Unless you are going to be pursuing a very high end overclock, this would be the board I'd MOST recommend as being reliable, having plenty of features and still being capable enough for some good overclocking if you should choose to. In fact, the ASUS A series board typically have practically the same overall VRM configurations and build quality as the higher end ROG boards except the very highest end models. Even those will not be any more reliable for 24/7 usage than this is.


PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Motherboard: Asus - PRIME Z390-A ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($175.44 @ Amazon)
Total: $175.44
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-12-21 19:02 EST-0500

 

[modeonoff]

My experience with overclocking was about 15 years ago with the press of a virtual button on the screen to overclock the system. I do like the LEGs of the Z390 Xtreme.

How about the ASUS WS Z390 that supports PCIe 3.0x16x16 via PLX chip, Aorus Z390 Master?

 

[huntlong]

Also if you think you might need 64gb of ram in the future get the 16gbx2. If you do 8gbx4 you would have to replace every stick for 64gb. If you do 16gbx2 you will atleast have the possibility of only having to buy two more sticks unless binning changes as you mentioned.

On a dual channel board 4 sticks and 2 sticks will both run at the same dual channel speed.

 

[modeonoff]

Also if you think you might need 64gb of ram in the future get the 16gbx2. If you do 8gbx4 you would have to replace every stick for 64gb. If you do 16gbx2 you will atleast have the possibility of only having to buy two more sticks unless binning changes as you mentioned.

On a dual channel board 4 sticks and 2 sticks will both run at the same dual channel speed.

Thanks. With those motherboards mentioned above, shall I go for DDR-3200C14 or something faster? Any recommendation? I don't know if the bugs for those Trident Z RGB RAM have been fixed. G. Skill has no comment

 

[Darkbreeze]

I would avoid RGB memory in the first place. If you want RGB, get it elsewhere like fans, LED strips, etc.

Secondly, I'm unaware of there BEING any bugs with Trident Z modules, as I work with memory threads here and builds using Trident Z memory all the time, and have never heard of any such thing BUT I also don't gravitate towards RGB modules so if the bugs are with the lighting system that would explain why.

Back to the motherboard, if you are not overclocking there is absolutely zero reason to go with a board like the ones you are trying to look at UNLESS there is some specific feature offered on one of them that you can't find on an upper mid tier model. By all means, if you simply want to spend more money on a board, I won't argue against that, but spending that kind of money on a motherboard is pointless 90% of the time unless you are doing some serious overclocking or trying to run extremely high speed memory. Competitive type builds.

I agree with the idea that if you want to run 32GB of memory you want to run 2 x16GB modules, as it is a lot less stressful on the memory controller and motherboard plus you eliminate a lot of the potential for problems when you reduce the number of sticks that could CAUSE problems from four to two. Two less sticks means two less potential sources of incompatibility even if they've been tested as a matched set.

And adding sticks LATER is always a big time crapshoot/gamble. Not sure what you're talking about when you refer to LEGs. Maybe you meant LEDs?

I wouldn't pay an extra hundred bucks or more for a motherboard just because it has fancier lighting, that's for damn sure. If you want lighting, there are plenty of other ways to get it such as add in LED/RGB lighting strips, fans, cases themselves, etc.

 

[modeonoff]

I would avoid RGB memory in the first place. If you want RGB, get it elsewhere like fans, LED strips, etc.

Secondly, I'm unaware of there BEING any bugs with Trident Z modules, as I work with memory threads here and builds using Trident Z memory all the time, and have never heard of any such thing BUT I also don't gravitate towards RGB modules so if the bugs are with the lighting system that would explain why.

Back to the motherboard, if you are not overclocking there is absolutely zero reason to go with a board like the ones you are trying to look at UNLESS there is some specific feature offered on one of them that you can't find on an upper mid tier model. By all means, if you simply want to spend more money on a board, I won't argue against that, but spending that kind of money on a motherboard is pointless 90% of the time unless you are doing some serious overclocking or trying to run extremely high speed memory. Competitive type builds.

I agree with the idea that if you want to run 32GB of memory you want to run 2 x16GB modules, as it is a lot less stressful on the memory controller and motherboard plus you eliminate a lot of the potential for problems when you reduce the number of sticks that could CAUSE problems from four to two. Two less sticks means two less potential sources of incompatibility even if they've been tested as a matched set.

And adding sticks LATER is always a big time crapshoot/gamble. Not sure what you're talking about when you refer to LEGs. Maybe you meant LEDs?

I wouldn't pay an extra hundred bucks or more for a motherboard just because it has fancier lighting, that's for damn sure. If you want lighting, there are plenty of other ways to get it such as add in LED/RGB lighting strips, fans, cases themselves, etc.

Thanks. With the i9-9900K, what RAM speed and CL do you recommend?

 

[Darkbreeze]

What quantity of memory are you planning to run?

 

[modeonoff]

What quantity of memory are you planning to run?

Initially 32GB but may be I will need 64GB eventually.

 

[huntlong]

3200mhz is usually the sweet spot. I’d get CL14 if i wasn’t worried about trying to save every dollar.

 

[modeonoff]

3200mhz is usually the sweet spot. I’d get CL14 if i wasn’t worried about trying to save every dollar.

Thanks. Due to availability, I may need to choose other options. Is there noticable difference between DDR4-3200C14, C15 and C16? Somewhere I read that for 4K gaming, CL became more important. Is that right?

 

[Darkbreeze]

If you want the higher quality CL14 memory I'd recommend this kit.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Memory: G.Skill - Trident Z 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($329.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $329.99
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-12-22 12:59 EST-0500



If you want to save money and don't care about the memory latency then I'd go with this kit. I highly doubt you need 64GB unless you are running not only high end scientific or 3D rendering programs BUT also some kind of VMs as well. There are very few applications, even most professional ones, that use more than 8GB for themselves.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Memory: G.Skill - Trident Z 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($259.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $259.99
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-12-22 13:02 EST-0500


If you feel like the RGB is important to you, then this kit.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Memory: G.Skill - Trident Z RGB 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($259.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $259.99
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-12-22 13:03 EST-0500


And if you have to have both the low latency Samsung B-die CL14 modules AND RGB, then this kit.


PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Memory: G.Skill - Trident Z RGB 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($369.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $369.99
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-12-22 13:04 EST-0500

 

[huntlong]

C14-C16 won’t be a huge difference. More just you knowing that you could have gotten somehing just a bit better.

 

[modeonoff]

If you want the higher quality CL14 memory I'd recommend this kit.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Memory: G.Skill - Trident Z 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($329.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $329.99
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-12-22 12:59 EST-0500



If you want to save money and don't care about the memory latency then I'd go with this kit. I highly doubt you need 64GB unless you are running not only high end scientific or 3D rendering programs BUT also some kind of VMs as well. There are very few applications, even most professional ones, that use more than 8GB for themselves.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Memory: G.Skill - Trident Z 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($259.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $259.99
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-12-22 13:02 EST-0500


If you feel like the RGB is important to you, then this kit.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Memory: G.Skill - Trident Z RGB 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($259.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $259.99
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-12-22 13:03 EST-0500


And if you have to have both the low latency Samsung B-die CL14 modules AND RGB, then this kit.


PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Memory: G.Skill - Trident Z RGB 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($369.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $369.99
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-12-22 13:04 EST-0500

Thank you for the nice list.
I do want low latency Samsung B-die CL14 modules. As for RGB...does having RGB slow down the RAM? For example, adding RGB may turn a DDR4-3200C14 to something like DDR4-3200C16? I wonder if there is a separate controller for controller RGB...

For Z390, I know it is dual channel. What if I plan to recycle the RAM when Cascade Lake/Xeon arrive in 2019? Shall I choose kits that is compatible with both dual and quad channels just for future proof?

 

[Darkbreeze]

C14-C16 won’t be a huge difference. More just you knowing that you could have gotten somehing just a bit better.

Yes, low latency does make a difference. It makes a bigger difference than memory speed up to a certain point. Memory is already outrageously fast in regard to frequency and bandwidth, but latencies are rather high on DDR4 so a CL14 latency on a 3000/3200mhz module absolutely makes a difference in terms of true latency.

And beyond that, CAS latency timings aside, practically ALL CL14 DDR4 modules that are at least 3000mhz have far more favorable secondary and tertiary timings, which won't make a huge difference, but they definitely help PLUS the quality of those modules is significantly better than those with higher CAS latencies. Both Corsair and G.skill, (And others as well), have several levels of memory quality. Not every Ripjaw or Trident Z module is build with the same quality of components. There are low (L), medium (M) and high quality modules within each of these series so you can buy two different Ripjaws, for example, with the same CAS latency, that are not the same module and those with Samsung B-die ICs are going to be among the high quality modules.

There are more differences than just what you see on a synthetic bench mark too.

A) F3 - indicates that this is DDR3 (may also see F2 for DDR2, F1 for DDR

B) 2133 - indicates the rated frequency of the DRAM

C) C9 - This indicates the rated CAS Latency of the stick/set, a lower CAS is indicative of higher performance. Here this appears to be the new indicator, ‘C9’, in older models will show with an ‘L’ as in ‘CL9’, as it appears in the next example.

D) Q - indicates the number of sticks in the set, here Q is for Quad or 4 sticks, also will see ‘S’ for a single stick package, ‘D’ for a dual or 2 stick package, ‘T’ for Tri or a 3 stick package, T2 for a Tri x 2 or 6stick package and Q2 for a Quad x2 or 8 stick package

E) 32G - indicates the total DRAM of the package – alsoshown in older sets as 32GB with the inclusion of the ‘B’ . GSkill sells 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 12, 16, 24, 32 and 64 GB sets (hope I got them all)

F) XH - indicates the specific model line, in this case ‘XH’ is for Ripjaws X High, and as long as we have Ripjaws X, there is also the XL – Ripjaws X Low, and ‘XM’ Ripjaws X Medium others include RL, RM, RH for the Regular Ripjaws (Low, Medium and High, often tied to the CL where lower CL indicates higher performance), the Ripjaws Z lines use ZL, ZM and ZH (yes, you guessed Low, Medium and High), then there are the Snipers that use SR 1.5 volt, SR1 for 1.35 and SR2 for 1.25, Ares com in AB for Blue and AO for Orange. While these are the primary models there are also earlier models like NT, NS, NQ, HK, PK and others.

G) You might also find a “D” at the end of a model # - this indicates the set comes with 1 or at times 2 cooling fans for the sticks.

That's an older breakdown and there are different naming schemes for specific lines now, but the point of the fact remains the same.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Thank you for the nice list.
I do want low latency Samsung B-die CL14 modules. As for RGB...does having RGB slow down the RAM? For example, adding RGB may turn a DDR4-3200C14 to something like DDR4-3200C16? I wonder if there is a separate controller for controller RGB...

For Z390, I know it is dual channel. What if I plan to recycle the RAM when Cascade Lake/Xeon arrive in 2019? Shall I choose kits that is compatible with both dual and quad channels just for future proof?

Having RGB does not "slow down" the memory at all. It is however more voltage, however minimal, that needs to be passed through the motherboard and, not sure on this one, possibly the memory controller.

Any memory module you purchase now for an Intel platform that is compatible, should be compatible with any future Intel platform that uses DDR4. Once DDR5 arrives, all bets are off, but that shouldn't be for a while yet. I'd bet by the end of 2019 we MIGHT start seeing some DDR5 platforms but I doubt it will happen any earlier than that and it may be much longer than that.

 

[modeonoff]

Thanks. Are these the 64GB version if I want low latency Samsung B-die CL14?

F4-3200C14Q-64GTZ
F4-3200C14Q-64GTZSW (is it just a different in color?)
F4-3200C14Q-64GTZR

Is it OK to buy RAM Sold and Shipped by Tunny LLC from Newegg or is it better to buy when Sold and Shipped by Newegg?

 

[Darkbreeze]

Usually, it's better to buy directly from Newegg and Amazon, especially if there are any problems later. Much easier to get an RMA or return directly to them than with a third party reseller. Usually cheaper too.

Yes, it's a different color.

Yes, those are B-die modules.

 

[modeonoff]

Usually, it's better to buy directly from Newegg and Amazon, especially if there are any problems later. Much easier to get an RMA or return directly to them than with a third party reseller. Usually cheaper too.

Yes, it's a different color.

Yes, those are B-die modules.

Thanks. Do you expect price drop around Boxing Day?