Question WIFI inside steel building

[Knick1]

Hello

I have a steel building 100 feet from my neighbors house and would like to connect to there WIFI. I only need to use it maybe a few times a month and they have offered to let me use it. Outside there is a great signal but not inside the building .It will show up under networks but no signal. There are no windows in the side of the building. What I was hoping to do is get a Extender with removable antennas and mount one outside and run wire to that antenna inside to the extender then broadcast WIFI inside my building. I have not found any extenders with removable antennas and would this even work if I did? Is there another way?

I don't want to ask them to do anything on there end if possible and I really don't want to run any cables unless I have to

Thank you for you time

 

[thx1138v2]

The success of your project is going to be highly dependent on the structure of your metal building. You can get all kinds of signal reflections and dead zones in a metal structure depending on how the walls (if there are any) are laid out and what (if anything) is hanging on them.

I chased my tail for 6 hours on an apartment complex office that was built in a metal building when the WiFi router and a PC that was trying to connect to it were about 8 feet apart but there was a copper piece of art work on the wall opposite the PC. When I moved the copper artwork to another room the problem disappeared.

I'm not sure you can get any answers before you try it.

Here's a couple of articles about dealing with WiFi:
https://arstechnica.com/information...hat-a-deep-dive-into-why-wi-fi-kind-of-sucks/
https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/home-networking-explained-part-1-heres-the-url-for-you/

 

[bill001g]

What is the concern with removable antenna?

In any case you need a unit designed for outdoor use. Mostly it has to be waterproof but the units are also designed to function in hot sunlight and on cold weather.

What you are looking for is called a outdoor bridge. It will connect to the remote router and then bring the signal in via the ethernet cable. You can then hook this to a cheap router. This inside router many times runs as a AP but you can run it as a router if you want to isolate the 2 networks.

Some old ones I have used are called ubiquiti nanostation loco. In many cases you must buy 2.4 or 5 radio unit they do not run on both bands. The newer AC model ones from ubiquiti only work in pairs. Many consumer grade manufacture like tplink now sell outdoor bridge units but I can't recommend any particular ones. Pretty much if you search for directional outdoor bridge you will likely find something.

 

[Knick1]

The success of your project is going to be highly dependent on the structure of your metal building. You can get all kinds of signal reflections and dead zones in a metal structure depending on how the walls (if there are any) are laid out and what (if anything) is hanging on them.

I chased my tail for 6 hours on an apartment complex office that was built in a metal building when the WiFi router and a PC that was trying to connect to it were about 8 feet apart but there was a copper piece of art work on the wall opposite the PC. When I moved the copper artwork to another room the problem disappeared.

I'm not sure you can get any answers before you try it.

Here's a couple of articles about dealing with WiFi:
https://arstechnica.com/information...hat-a-deep-dive-into-why-wi-fi-kind-of-sucks/
https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/home-networking-explained-part-1-heres-the-url-for-you/

The building is wide open on the inside, walls are covered with ODB (like plywood) on the inside. I will look at the links you provided, thank you

 

[Knick1]

What is the concern with removable antenna?

In any case you need a unit designed for outdoor use. Mostly it has to be waterproof but the units are also designed to function in hot sunlight and on cold weather.

What you are looking for is called a outdoor bridge. It will connect to the remote router and then bring the signal in via the ethernet cable. You can then hook this to a cheap router. This inside router many times runs as a AP but you can run it as a router if you want to isolate the 2 networks.

Some old ones I have used are called ubiquiti nanostation loco. In many cases you must buy 2.4 or 5 radio unit they do not run on both bands. The newer AC model ones from ubiquiti only work in pairs. Many consumer grade manufacture like tplink now sell outdoor bridge units but I can't recommend any particular ones. Pretty much if you search for directional outdoor bridge you will likely find something.

My understanding was the antenna on the extender were bi directional. So I could put it inside the building and extend one antenna outside and get a signal inside. I have looked at the bridges and will visit them again.
Thank you

 

[bill001g]

In many case the device are using all the antenna at the same time to get more speed. This is what you see called mimo most times. I am not sure if a repeater will function if you were to disconnect 1 antenna and run it outside and leave other in the building.
Microwave rated antenna cable is very expensive. If you buy cheap stuff you lose more signal that the antenna adds and the better stuff like lmr600 can cost $5 a foot or more when you look at cables with ends pre attached.

In effect using a directional bridge and a indoor AP is a similar concept but it is using 2 different devices so you do not suffer the problem with 1 radio being used to talk to both sources. It also uses normal ethernet cable so you do not have the issue of signal loss.
This method will work best since it is designed for exactly this application. There are some fancy mesh systems that can also do this that have seperate radios for the backhaul and also are rated to outdoor use but this requires that the equipment at main house/location also support mesh. Mesh systems are extremely proprietary so you must buy all the equipment from one vendors.....that is part if the scam to make more money I think. Then again there really is no concept of "mesh" repeater in the wifi standards it is something the router manufactures made up to sell to home users.

As a example you can get a tplink cpe210 for under $50 and you can use a old router you have or buy a cheap $50 router to use as the AP inside the building. Note do not expect really high speed from this when you do not have control of the main location. If you get 50mbps be happy. To get really fast speeds you need to put direction bridge equipment on both ends of the connection.

 

[Knick1]

In many case the device are using all the antenna at the same time to get more speed. This is what you see called mimo most times. I am not sure if a repeater will function if you were to disconnect 1 antenna and run it outside and leave other in the building.
Microwave rated antenna cable is very expensive. If you buy cheap stuff you lose more signal that the antenna adds and the better stuff like lmr600 can cost $5 a foot or more when you look at cables with ends pre attached.

In effect using a directional bridge and a indoor AP is a similar concept but it is using 2 different devices so you do not suffer the problem with 1 radio being used to talk to both sources. It also uses normal ethernet cable so you do not have the issue of signal loss.
This method will work best since it is designed for exactly this application. There are some fancy mesh systems that can also do this that have seperate radios for the backhaul and also are rated to outdoor use but this requires that the equipment at main house/location also support mesh. Mesh systems are extremely proprietary so you must buy all the equipment from one vendors.....that is part if the scam to make more money I think. Then again there really is no concept of "mesh" repeater in the wifi standards it is something the router manufactures made up to sell to home users.

As a example you can get a tplink cpe210 for under $50 and you can use a old router you have or buy a cheap $50 router to use as the AP inside the building. Note do not expect really high speed from this when you do not have control of the main location. If you get 50mbps be happy. To get really fast speeds you need to put direction bridge equipment on both ends of the connection.

First off I want to say thank you for taking the time to help me, you have given me the info I needed.
I already have a TP-link EAP225 will that work in place of the CPE210?

 

[Knick1]

First off I want to say thank you for taking the time to help me, you have given me the info I needed.
I already have a TP-link EAP225 will that work in place of the CPE210?

Maybe I will return the EAP225 and get the CPE210.

 

[bill001g]

That is hard to say without reading the manuals.

Just as a quick look it is a AP which means it acts as a server and end devices connect to it. What you need is something that appears as a client..ie end device. These outdoor bridge units are many times call customer premise equipment because they act as a client. The tplink CPE210 is fancy and it can run in many modes. Maybe the AP device can also but by the name that is not its primary purpose.

You could keep it and run it as a AP inside the steel building rather than buying another cheap router to do that function. This AP can be power over ethernet do it allows you to mount it on the ceiling where there might not be power. Note the antenna in that AP are optimized for ceiling placement.

 

[Knick1]

That is hard to say without reading the manuals.

Just as a quick look it is a AP which means it acts as a server and end devices connect to it. What you need is something that appears as a client..ie end device. These outdoor bridge units are many times call customer premise equipment because they act as a client. The tplink CPE210 is fancy and it can run in many modes. Maybe the AP device can also but by the name that is not its primary purpose.

You could keep it and run it as a AP inside the steel building rather than buying another cheap router to do that function. This AP can be power over ethernet do it allows you to mount it on the ceiling where there might not be power. Note the antenna in that AP are optimized for ceiling placement.

I decided to return the EAP and order the CPE210. Is there a router you recommend?

 

[bill001g]

Nope anything that is cheap. You are not going to get over 100mbps so you don't even need 1gbit ports. Not sure if it even buys you anything to buy 802.11ac....ie devices with a 1200 number on them. Even the older 802.11n at 300 will likely be ok since the connection between the buildings will be the limitation. Then again there are lots of cheap router with 1200 numbers since everyone is moving to wifi6 or wifi6e.

This is where you dig through the junk pile if you have it. You are going to run the device as an AP so fancy features on the router will be ignored. You are basically buying the wifi radios and don't care about much else.

 

[ventanni]

Hello

I have a steel building 100 feet from my neighbors house and would like to connect to there WIFI. I only need to use it maybe a few times a month and they have offered to let me use it. Outside there is a great signal but not inside the building .It will show up under networks but no signal. There are no windows in the side of the building. What I was hoping to do is get a Extender with removable antennas and mount one outside and run wire to that antenna inside to the extender then broadcast WIFI inside my building. I have not found any extenders with removable antennas and would this even work if I did? Is there another way?

I don't want to ask them to do anything on there end if possible and I really don't want to run any cables unless I have to

Thank you for you time

How far away is your house from your steel building? Your neighbor may be okay with you using their internet, but I always get a little iffy when others say that. Why not repeat your own signal?

Solution #1 - Antenna/Repeater

Pros - Should be relatively easy setup /crosses fingers
Cons - Repeater solutions aren't the fastest. In my limited experience, most repeaters we setup were limited to about 300-400mb/s max, and they sometimes lose connection. You say you only need to "check emails" now, but once you have internet in your building you're going to be thinking of new ways to utilize it.

Something like this should work. You'll need to install the antenna on the outside and make a penetration into your steel building. If you do, you can use a 90 degree rigid conduit elbow that's threaded on one of the ends, and thread it into a flange that's mounted on the side of your steel building. You can then make your penetration in the center of the flange, allowing the cable to route through the conduit elbow and into your building to the receiver. Angle the elbow so it's pointing down so you're not funneling water into your building (water will travel along the wires via gravity, so make sure your routing doesn't allow that). Some clear silicon should do the rest. Alternatively, you could just buy the Ubiquiti universal antenna mount that Amazon is linking along with it, but both solutions will do the trick.

Antenna/Repeater - https://www.amazon.com/Extended-Rep...+range+extender+antenna&qid=1662032778&sr=8-3

Flange - https://www.topaz-usa.com/rigid-imc-fittings/293?returnurl=/rigid-imc-fittings/

90 Degree Rigid EMT elbow - https://www.topaz-usa.com/elbows-ni...l=/elbows-nipples-couplings-elbows-rigid-90d/

Or, universal antenna mount - https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Uni...64-b1da-d407ff2f172a&pd_rd_i=B006J1WSGI&psc=1

Solution #2 - Hardline CAT6 to WiFi solution

Pros - Fastest (good to 5gb/s), lowest latency, bulletproof solution since it's your own internet, and relatively easy setup
Cons - Limited to 300ft. Some physical labor involved. Get a PoE injector with built in surge protection

Run an outdoor direct burial CAT6 cable from your house to your steel building. I'm not sure how far it is between your building and your house, but CAT5e/CAT6 cables are good for just shy over 300ft.

CAT6 Direct Burial Cable - https://www.amazon.com/Outdoor-Ethe...x=outdoor+rated+ca,electronics,96&sr=1-3&th=1

It's preferable to run it inside PVC conduit, but you don't have to. Running it in PVC will also help with surge protection.

Ubiquity Wifi 6 AP - https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Acc...cs&sprefix=ubiquiti+ap,electronics,93&sr=1-19

(AP = Wifi; it stands for Access Point)

Mount this sucker inside your steel building and it'll be like internet inside your own house. Ubiquiti AP's are fairly simple and straight forward to setup, too.

You'll need to buy a POE injector separately. They're like $25. Get one with built-in surge protection.

|Home Router ---> PoE Injector |----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--> AP|

Solution #3 - Bridge to bridge extender

Pros - Very simple solution, long distance
Cons - 100mb limitation, probably gonna give you some trouble on the setup (maybe).

https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Out.../dp/B09Y593F9J/ref=psdc_1194486_t5_B08QG92M83

Simple solution, but it's probably gonna require some setup.

 

[Knick1]

Ok here was what I went with, as per Bill001g
Thank you Bill for all your help
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00P4JKQGK?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

https://www.amazon.com/your-orders/...pmentId=TkBlRj5BC&packageId=1&asin=B09G5Y1HWZ

This works good except the neighbors internet is pretty slow (dish network)I think if they had cable it would be better. Signal strength is 100%.


I wanted to add Solved to original post but don't see a way to do that