Will 2005 finally be the year of the DVD-ROM?

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

It seems like more and more games are coming out on DVD now (at least
here in the USA; apparently the rest of the world hasn't been so
backwards). Brothers in Arms, Half Life 2, Splinter Cell 3,
MoH-Pacific Assault all came on DVD. Has the industry *finally*
realized that most PCs sold in the past few years (e.g., the sort of
PCs that can actually run these behemoths of games) have been shipping
with DVD drives? Will the trend continue; I hope so; aside from the
benefits of easier installation and increased capacity, it's just so
much darn easier to store one DVD than six CDs.

Personally, I always felt that the lack of DVD games had less to do
with market penetration of DVD drives and more to do with the computer
savyness of the average user; DVDs and CDs look too much alike and are
easy to confuse. Game publishers and retailers probably didn't want to
have to deal with all the returns and complaints when a DVD game
didn't work in little Bobby's CD-Drive. At least, that's my opinion of
why it only took a couple of years for the industry to switch from
floppy to CD while it's taken them five or six to move to DVD; you
can't confuse a floppy disk for a CD.

I wonder if there's a list of PC games available on DVD; aside from
those above, I can only think of a handful of others:

Myst (or was it RealMyst?)
Baldur's Gate (a special edition sort of thing)
Metal Gear 3
Shellshock: Nam '67
Unreal Tournament 2004

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

x-no-archive: yes

Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

much more relevant than the normal transition between cd-rom
and dvd-rom is the damage steam is doing to pc games
don't forget if steam wins and monopolizes pc games it will
kill all kind of physical storage medium including cd-rom or
dvd-rom

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

steamKILLER wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>
> much more relevant than the normal transition between cd-rom
> and dvd-rom is the damage steam is doing to pc games
> don't forget if steam wins and monopolizes pc games it will
> kill all kind of physical storage medium including cd-rom or
> dvd-rom

Yay! Welcome back!

Look everybody! It's sayNO!

How you doing sayNO? It's been real quiet here without you - there was
even a thread about it. You'll be please to hear that John Lewis is
back, and even Peter [AGHL] has returned from exile.

What else is new? Oh, yeah, Valve have released all the Steam patches
on a cover disc (PC Gamer IIRC). So you won that battle.


But STAYING ON TOPIC (we do that now, that's one thing that changed
after you left), I think that there is another reason for the slow
transition to DVD. Most games still don't need all that space - they
still fit on a CD.

The development cycle of a new game has to be shorter and shorter these
days, else the technology and competition gets so far ahead that when
the game comes out, it is already outdated. Consequently, corners have
to be cut and compromises made - this may mean less graphical/aural
detail, fewer levels, fewer monsters/objects/weapons etc. Ultimately it
means less data to fit on the disc.

Secondly, I would expect that the game code is more efficient these
days, so itself it takes up less space. This also tends to mean less
innovation in games becasue they are just reusing existing code and not
creating new functionality or reatures as much.

Some big games have dared to invest time and effort and have created so
much content that it needs greater storage, but for most smaller games
it isn't necessary yet.

I add these factors to the OP's factors of DVD drives only becoming
commonplace in recent years, and the possibility of confusion between
identical looking discs.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

stePH wrote:
> "Chadwick" <chadwick110@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1113900251.828475.29560
> @g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
> > Yay! Welcome back!
> >
> > Look everybody! It's sayNO!
>
> Did it crosspost, or is it just using the same email address that's
already
> in my killfile?

Same email address. Although it was the absence of capital letters, the
deft change of topic to Steam and the non-archiving statement that
alerted me initially.

If you're still unsure, open the thread in Google Groups
(http://tinyurl.com/csrl8) and choose Show Options, Find Messages By
This Author.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

stePH wrote:
> "Chadwick" <chadwick110@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1113900251.828475.29560
> @g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
> > Yay! Welcome back!
> >
> > Look everybody! It's sayNO!
>
> Did it crosspost, or is it just using the same email address that's
already
> in my killfile?

Same email address. Although it was the absence of capital letters, the
deft change of topic to Steam and the non-archiving statement that
alerted me initially.

If you're still unsure, open the thread in Google Groups
(http://tinyurl.com/csrl8) and choose Show Options, Find Messages By
This Author.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Chadwick wrote:

> Same email address. Although it was the absence of capital letters,
> the deft change of topic to Steam and the non-archiving statement that
> alerted me initially.

I enjoy the irony that he is using Google Groups to post his messages while
at the same time telling Google not to archive them.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 14:11:59 -0600, "Hank the Rapper"
<xflopgoon@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote:

>Chadwick wrote:
>
>> Same email address. Although it was the absence of capital letters,
>> the deft change of topic to Steam and the non-archiving statement that
>> alerted me initially.
>
>I enjoy the irony that he is using Google Groups to post his messages while
>at the same time telling Google not to archive them.

Actually, no. He's just putting "X-No-Archive: Yes" in the body of the
message.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Raymond Martineau wrote:

> Actually, no. He's just putting "X-No-Archive: Yes" in the body of
> the message.

What do you think that means? Check his message on Google Groups. His post
will be deleted in a week like his others.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Quoth The Raven "Spalls Hurgenson"<yoinks@ebalu.com> in
gq296190ce4u69utuhv22gbo1qkb9tk78r@4ax.com
> It seems like more and more games are coming out on DVD now

surprisingly on the Steam Survey this year, DVD's featured as the more
common device on peoples computers.
--
If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?

Take out the _CURSEING to reply to me

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

x-no-archive: yes

Chadwick wrote:

<snip>

using google for newsgroups is awful and it doesn't work
for me and i've been trying to get a free news server but
it has been very difficult

i've not been able to read everything in here but what i
did has disappoint me a lot... again this group has been
invaded by the enemy: consolists, pro steam fanatics and
pirates... really very sad... a total disgrace
my heart aches seeing what this group has become

as for the news monopolistic greedy dictator valve is now
making available updates in a cd game magazine is again
and like always a rotten gift, a poison candy for us, to
again try and fool us, to try and deceive and seduce us
into the dark side, to make us become another submissive
dependant brainwashed controlled and imprisoned gamer and
that will never happen! never! steam never ever!

the battle is not mine but for all pc gamers in the world
and it will only be won when steam is totally destroyed
and killed for good!
long live pc games!
down to steam!
down to piracy!
down to consoles!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

What happens to the people that want to use a program like Alcohol 52%
to create images? A DVD image is much larger than a CD image. Most
people that use those programs only need to copy CD 1 to be able to use
the no cd option. There will still be a market for CDs.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

x-no-archive: yes

javajeff wrote:

<snip yet another thief promoting illegal activities>

yes i know, nobody in this group cares about fighting piracy
but i do and i will not tolerate criminal thieves supporting
illegal and damaging activities which are killing pc games
every day!

mister you play by the rules do you understand!
play by the rules or leave!
.. you always buy the pc games you want to play in your local
retail store!
.. your copies are for your personal use only and lending is
totally forbidden!
.. you don't make backup copies cause manufactured cd-roms are
the most reliable medium ever created!
.. each time you play you must have the cd-rom inserted in and
don't try to find ways to run away from it cause they promote
piracy and damage pc games!

these are the rules! and you have the option of complying and
be a respectful pc gamer or not and face the consequences of
your illegal actions!

ps: i want to make tribute to "John A. Mason" which is by far
the only respectful and true pc gamer in this group, thanks
John for being a pc gamer and for defending pc games and i'm
sure with us this group is properly defended

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

steamKILLER wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> javajeff wrote:
>
> <snip yet another thief promoting illegal activities>
>
> yes i know, nobody in this group cares about fighting piracy
> but i do and i will not tolerate criminal thieves supporting
> illegal and damaging activities which are killing pc games
> every day!
>
> mister you play by the rules do you understand!
> play by the rules or leave!
> . you always buy the pc games you want to play in your local
> retail store!
> . your copies are for your personal use only and lending is
> totally forbidden!
> . you don't make backup copies cause manufactured cd-roms are
> the most reliable medium ever created!
> . each time you play you must have the cd-rom inserted in and
> don't try to find ways to run away from it cause they promote
> piracy and damage pc games!
>
> these are the rules! and you have the option of complying and
> be a respectful pc gamer or not and face the consequences of
> your illegal actions!
>
> ps: i want to make tribute to "John A. Mason" which is by far
> the only respectful and true pc gamer in this group, thanks
> John for being a pc gamer and for defending pc games and i'm
> sure with us this group is properly defended

Interesting, given that John's only contribution to this thread so far
has been a badly aimed attack on me.

And I don't think you are the real sayNO. I think whoever was
impersonating sayNO has revived the imposter account.

Personally, I don't understand the problem with CD-checks. Just put the
CD in the drive and get on with it. Is that really too much effort?
It's a cheap way of trying to prevent casual piracy, although I think
it is too easily circumvented these days to be of any real use.

The deciding factor for each game will be "How much data is there? Will
it fit on one or two CDs, or do I need a DVD?". I would guess that mass
CD recording technoogy and services are still cheaper than DVDs because
the technology is older and the pressing plants have invested in the
hardware and software already . They can probably make a higher profit
off CD pressing because the equipment is already depreciated to some
extent. This will be reflected in cheaper prices to the games houses.

If a game can be shipped with the install stuff and engine on one CD
and the levels and incidental music on another, then the producers will
probably do just that because it is cheaper than producing a DVD.

However, I think we'll see more and more "big" games coming out on DVDs
because DVDs are more commonplace now and the technology has
stabilised. Most readers don't care whether they're fed DVD-R, DVD+R,
DVD-ROM or whatever - they just deal with it. Games like Far Cry and
HL2 come with a lot of data and a single disc is more convenient.
There's also a certain cool value in shipping a game "so good it needs
to be on a DVD".

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 15:15:27 -0400, javajeff
<javajeff@NOSPAMadelphia.net> wrote:

>What happens to the people that want to use a program like Alcohol 52%
>to create images? A DVD image is much larger than a CD image. Most
>people that use those programs only need to copy CD 1 to be able to use
>the no cd option. There will still be a market for CDs.

I'm not sure I see the problem. Most games install all the content
onto the hard-drive anyway. If having to pop the CD into the drive is
annoying, you use a no-cd crack; imaging isn't required. You use
virtualCD imagess only if you don't want to use a no-cd program
(either because the use of which is potentially illegal -although it
shouldn't be- or because it could possibly be a vector for malware).

At least, that's my understanding of how it works, but I don't
regularly use noCD cracks. Maybe that technique no longer works
against modern anti-copying software. But if these cracks require an
image of a CD to work, I personally wouldn't call it a "noCD" crack.
But that's just me.

Besides, I can't imagine that, in an era of 500GB hard drives, a DVD
image isn't going to be all that unacceptable to people who care about
things like that.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Xocyll wrote:
> frankly I think Google should NOT honor X-N-A for
> people who post via google.

I think it's OK if Google honours the intentions of the people who use
it's NG service.
It seems a bit daft to have a feature in a program that doesn't work in
that program, but does work if you view your data in a rival program.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 17:07:46 -0600, "Hank the Rapper"
<xflopgoon@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote:

>Raymond Martineau wrote:
>
>> Actually, no. He's just putting "X-No-Archive: Yes" in the body of
>> the message.
>
>What do you think that means? Check his message on Google Groups. His post
>will be deleted in a week like his others.

I checked with google... while it is true they will disappear in a week or
so, it doesn't mean that it will be honored globally:

http://www.gameskb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/pc-games-action/5515/Psychotoxic-Walkthrough
http://video-game-forum.net/showthread.php?t=15242 (Home of the split
personalities)

As I said, he's just putting "X-No-Archive: Yes" in the body of his
message. The only difference is that it will be actually visible on the
forums above.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Raymond Martineau wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 17:07:46 -0600, "Hank the Rapper"
> <xflopgoon@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Raymond Martineau wrote:
>>
>>> Actually, no. He's just putting "X-No-Archive: Yes" in the body of
>>> the message.
>>
>> What do you think that means? Check his message on Google Groups.
>> His post will be deleted in a week like his others.
>
> I checked with google... while it is true they will disappear in a
> week or so, it doesn't mean that it will be honored globally:
>
> http://www.gameskb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/pc-games-action/5515/Psychotoxic-Walkthrough
> http://video-game-forum.net/showthread.php?t=15242 (Home of the split
> personalities)
>
> As I said, he's just putting "X-No-Archive: Yes" in the body of his
> message. The only difference is that it will be actually visible on
> the forums above.

Read what I said originally. "I enjoy the irony that he is using Google
Groups to post his messages while
at the same time telling Google not to archive them." I was specifically
talking about Google Groups, not web forums who grab Usenet posts.
"X-No-Archive: Yes" tells Google the poster does not want their posts
archived.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Hank the Rapper" <xflopgoon@REMOVEyahoo.com> looked up from reading the
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
say:

>Raymond Martineau wrote:
>> On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 17:07:46 -0600, "Hank the Rapper"
>> <xflopgoon@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Raymond Martineau wrote:
>>>
>>>> Actually, no. He's just putting "X-No-Archive: Yes" in the body of
>>>> the message.
>>>
>>> What do you think that means? Check his message on Google Groups.
>>> His post will be deleted in a week like his others.
>>
>> I checked with google... while it is true they will disappear in a
>> week or so, it doesn't mean that it will be honored globally:
>>
>> http://www.gameskb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/pc-games-action/5515/Psychotoxic-Walkthrough
>> http://video-game-forum.net/showthread.php?t=15242 (Home of the split
>> personalities)
>>
>> As I said, he's just putting "X-No-Archive: Yes" in the body of his
>> message. The only difference is that it will be actually visible on
>> the forums above.
>
>Read what I said originally. "I enjoy the irony that he is using Google
>Groups to post his messages while
>at the same time telling Google not to archive them." I was specifically
>talking about Google Groups, not web forums who grab Usenet posts.
>"X-No-Archive: Yes" tells Google the poster does not want their posts
>archived.

Heavy Irony, and frankly I think Google should NOT honor X-N-A for
people who post via google.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Chadwick" <chadwick110@hotmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails
of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>
>steamKILLER wrote:
<snip the raving of the loon>
>> ps: i want to make tribute to "John A. Mason" which is by far
>> the only respectful and true pc gamer in this group, thanks
>> John for being a pc gamer and for defending pc games and i'm
>> sure with us this group is properly defended
>
>Interesting, given that John's only contribution to this thread so far
>has been a badly aimed attack on me.
>
>And I don't think you are the real sayNO. I think whoever was
>impersonating sayNO has revived the imposter account.
>
>Personally, I don't understand the problem with CD-checks. Just put the
>CD in the drive and get on with it. Is that really too much effort?
>It's a cheap way of trying to prevent casual piracy, although I think
>it is too easily circumvented these days to be of any real use.

The problem with CD-Checks, is that the companies marketing such things
are never 100% compatible. No doubt they tell the software companies
they sell their schemes to that they are, but they aren't.

So you have the situation of the game will run just fine on the computer
and cd-rom, the cd-checking scheme however refuses to recognize the
cd-rom, and to finish out the problem, the software is unreturnable.

That's exactly the problem I ran into with various of the older safedisc
version - including Diablo2 - the game installed just fine, but safedisc
wouldn't admit the cdrom existed.
Result: I HAD to use a no-cd crack in order to play a game I bought,
which, since it's not the original code and doesn't match the check,
also stopped me playing on Battle.net.

There's a chunk of functionality removed strictly because of the
copy-protection.

It's interesting to see that newer versions of safedisc see that very
same drive just fine - so it was always a safedisc problem.

The moment the copy-protection stops people who paid for the game from
actually playing, it's gone too far.

Frankly I'd rather have the word lookups or code-wheels back than
cd-based protection that doesn't work on all systems.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

x-no-archive: yes

John A. Mason wrote:

<snip>

thank you very much John, really appreciate
steam is for me the number one problem in pc games but
piracy and the totally unfair competition we face from
consoles are the two other very important issues which
we pc gamers must mobilize to deal with and defend what
is dear to us
i've said this since the beginning, we as pc gamers have
to take the matters in our own hands cause ultimately we
are also responsible to what happens in pc games
if steam wins we have us to blame cause we didn't fought
it properly and the same applies to piracy and consoles
i know i don't do enough to fight steam, by now i should
have created an worldwide association of pc gamers with
its own website and forums and totally devoted to fight
steam and piracy and consoles, but i didn't and i have
only myself to blame but its obvious with help it would
be possible, so yes my complaint is not finding in this
group anyone passionate enough like myself and its such
a shame

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

steamKILLER wrote:

> thank you very much John, really appreciate
> steam is for me the number one problem in pc games but
> piracy and the totally unfair competition we face from
> consoles are the two other very important issues which
> we pc gamers must mobilize to deal with and defend what
> is dear to us

Valve is releasing a Steam-free version of Half-Life 2 for the Xbox this
year. 😛

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

John A. Mason wrote:

> And I can also see through his 'enthusiasm' to believe in my heart
> that he doesn't really mean that. He is exatugerating (?? can't find
> the right spelling!) to make a point. I've done it myself at times.
> Perhaps I am wrong and he really is crazy. But I don't think so.
> John

I guess it's a good thing then that he won't let Google archive his posts.
Now you can't go back and find out what a nut job he is. When you say the
same thing over and over in differenct posts it isn't just a one time
emoitional response.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Quoth The Raven "Hank the Rapper"<xflopgoon@REMOVEyahoo.com> in
l6WdnX83hNYhYPXfRVn-2A@giganews.com
> steamKILLER wrote:
>
>> thank you very much John, really appreciate
>> steam is for me the number one problem in pc games but
>> piracy and the totally unfair competition we face from
>> consoles are the two other very important issues which
>> we pc gamers must mobilize to deal with and defend what
>> is dear to us
>
> Valve is releasing a Steam-free version of Half-Life 2 for the Xbox
> this year. 😛

are you sure it'll be steam free? perhaps the game will only install on
x-box live units

--
The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read
and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn. - (Alvin
Toffler)

Take out the _CURSEING to reply to me

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On 19 Apr 2005 01:44:11 -0700, "Chadwick" <chadwick110@hotmail.com>
wrote:


>But STAYING ON TOPIC (we do that now, that's one thing that changed
>after you left), I think that there is another reason for the slow
>transition to DVD. Most games still don't need all that space - they
>still fit on a CD.
>
>The development cycle of a new game has to be shorter and shorter these
>days, else the technology and competition gets so far ahead that when
>the game comes out, it is already outdated. Consequently, corners have
>to be cut and compromises made - this may mean less graphical/aural
>detail, fewer levels, fewer monsters/objects/weapons etc. Ultimately it
>means less data to fit on the disc.

I think that's always been the case. But there's probably more of a
challenge to it nowadays with the increased complexity in PC game
graphics and technologies and player expectations.

But generally an increase in graphic detail and complexity means
larger sized files, hence more storage space is needed.

Considering that DVD-ROMs and good DVD-R capability only hit the
market a few years ago, they've probably moved to DVD-ROMs faster than
or as about as fast as they moved to CD-ROMs for general storage.

>Secondly, I would expect that the game code is more efficient these
>days, so itself it takes up less space. This also tends to mean less
>innovation in games becasue they are just reusing existing code and not
>creating new functionality or reatures as much.

I dunno if I would agree with that statement. If anything everything
today seems more bloated and resource hungry. 😛 It may not be the
gaming software to blame though, its probably just the state of the OS
that its programmed on. (Mi-GRO-soft 😛)

>Some big games have dared to invest time and effort and have created so
>much content that it needs greater storage, but for most smaller games
>it isn't necessary yet.

True, but there are alot of games out today that are on no less than 3
CDs! Are the manufacturing costs that much higher for DVDs where its
cheaper to use 3 CDs instead of fitting this on 1 single-layer DVD?
Not only do you have to figure in the burning of each CD, but also the
printing of their labels and the increased chances for errors in
production.

I dunno, maybe its a marketing thing. Maybe the devs think that if
people see 3 or 4 CDs they will somehow equate that with 'more' or a
bigger and better game than if it was all on a single disc. *shrug*

 

[Guest]

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"Hank the Rapper" <xflopgoon@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:l6WdnX83hNYhYPXfRVn-2A@giganews.com...
> steamKILLER wrote:
>
> > thank you very much John, really appreciate
> > steam is for me the number one problem in pc games but
> > piracy and the totally unfair competition we face from
> > consoles are the two other very important issues which
> > we pc gamers must mobilize to deal with and defend what
> > is dear to us
>
> Valve is releasing a Steam-free version of Half-Life 2 for the Xbox this
> year. 😛

Who cares? You can't play an FPS on a console, you can and you never will.
They will always be either uncontrollable or come with auto-aim. Either one
of which is laughable.

Why do people even bother mentioning that a console has any FPS's?