Discussion Will there be a high core count Intel 11th gen CPU?

[Howardohyea]

Between the i9 11900K and low end Xeons there seems to me there's a hole in their product stack, maybe an i9 11980XE?

 

[InvalidError]

Intel hasn't had a new HEDT platform for its X-series CPUs since the X299's monumental flop and there are no plans for a new one anywhere yet. The i9-11900k is already pushing 250W peak, adding any more cores would require a substantial down-clock to keep temperatures and power draw somewhat manageable.

I'm not expecting Intel to take another shot at HEDT until its 7nm fabs are ready, it has too much of a die size and power handicap on 10/14nm.

 

[Howardohyea]

Hm that's interesting, seems like Intel left the high end/high core count to AMD until the Xeon workstation lineup, for this generation at least.

Also I'm not sure about the core clocks, mZxnh6F5cnvfqpZ3EAti3A-970-80.png.webp (711×533) (futurecdn.net) if I take the power consumption of an i9 9980XE at 4.4GHz, it's also roughly 250 watts. With an IPC uplift from Comet Lake, they might stay competitive?

 

[TerryLaze]

Intel hasn't had a new HEDT platform for its X-series CPUs since the X299's monumental flop and there are no plans for a new one anywhere yet. The i9-11900k is already pushing 250W peak, adding any more cores would require a substantial down-clock to keep temperatures and power draw somewhat manageable.

I'm not expecting Intel to take another shot at HEDT until its 7nm fabs are ready, it has too much of a die size and power handicap on 10/14nm.

Intel also didn't release any 11th gen celeron and pentiums, is that also because of the die size and power?!
Just like AMD, intel as well is focusing on releasing only the big money makers right now and everything else is being pushed back until after all the shortages get figured out.

 

[Howardohyea]

oh yeah, I forgot about the Pentiums. Intel did refresh the Pentiums and i3s but without the new Cypress Cove cores in Rocket Lake.

Also pretty much the only fab that can cope with the shortage is IFS, AMD should use it (that's a joke, AMD will never use IFS)

 

[InvalidError]

Intel also didn't release any 11th gen celeron and pentiums, is that also because of the die size and power?!

The low-end got Comet Lake refreshes like Howard pointed out. Intel was already struggling with meeting demand before covid-19 and now that its i5-i9 range has much larger dies than before, it has even fewer wafers to spare for the low-end. It generally makes sense that the bottom-end would get dropped first when manufacturing capacity gets tight.

 

[alceryes]

Intel is supposedly producing 10nm desktop CPUs, to arrive end of this year.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-says-first-10nm-desktop-cpus-land-in-second-half-of-2021

We don't really know what to expect from these chips though. They'll supposedly have the big.LITTLE CPU core design (performance cores along side power efficient cores).

I forsee all sorts of issues - from cooling hotspots to software/driver design problems with this CPU. Hopefully I'm wrong but we'll see.

 

[Howardohyea]

Intel is supposedly producing 10nm desktop CPUs, to arrive end of this year.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-says-first-10nm-desktop-cpus-land-in-second-half-of-2021

We don't really know what to expect from these chips though. They'll supposedly have the big.LITTLE CPU core design (performance cores along side power efficient cores).

I forsee all sorts of issues - from cooling hotspots to software/driver design problems with this CPU. Hopefully I'm wrong but we'll see.

Hm the low end Lakefield processors pioneered desktop X86/64 hybrid architecture using one big core and five small cores, so I think Intel/Microsoft got driver/OS cooperation out of the way, but only time will tell about how desktop computers perform.

Also with a potentially larger CPU package for Alder Lake (from the size of processors alone), coupled with a smaller manufacturing process, HEDT might be in Intel's crosshairs now (AMD rules this area without any competition)

I wonder what socket or form factor the new 11980XE replacement will take, I guess it's not gonna be LGA 1700 since that will be 12th gen's area, causing competition in their own products.

 

[Howardohyea]

The low-end got Comet Lake refreshes like Howard pointed out. Intel was already struggling with meeting demand before covid-19 and now that its i5-i9 range has much larger dies than before, it has even fewer wafers to spare for the low-end. It generally makes sense that the bottom-end would get dropped first when manufacturing capacity gets tight.

That is exactly what happened to the Ryzen 3 3300X and the 3100. AMD (to me) priced these too aggressively, so a low profit margin for AMD, less desirable to produce, so they are utterly impossible to find at retail.

Plus for high end like the 7980XE and the 9980XE, which sells for $2000 when they were released, had a huge profit margin, charge a premium for Quad-channel memory, cores, AVX 512 and other stuff normal people don't need.

Then, the R9 3950X came along and Intel slashed prices down in half, so basically more than half of the 7980XE and the 9980XE is pure profit.

 

[InvalidError]

That is exactly what happened to the Ryzen 3 3300X and the 3100. AMD (to me) priced these too aggressively, so a low profit margin for AMD, less desirable to produce, so they are utterly impossible to find at retail.

AMD does not "make" 3100/3300X/3500, those are made from defective CCDs (bad cores or cache) that would have been scrapped otherwise. AMD has every incentive to not have any to sell and the low availability simply means that yields got that good with sales holding strong enough that AMD did not have excess dies to sacrifice for anything below the 3600.

 

[hotaru.hino]

I forsee all sorts of issues - from cooling hotspots to software/driver design problems with this CPU. Hopefully I'm wrong but we'll see.

AMD's current processors have the potential for similar issues. The "rice grain sized drop in the middle" thermal paste application method doesn't really apply to AMD's recent processors because of the awkward die configuration.

Also Intel isn't really a stranger to hot spots either, considering this paper illustrated the problem back in Ivy Bridge: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0026269214001736

 

[Howardohyea]

AMD does not "make" 3100/3300X/3500, those are made from defective CCDs (bad cores or cache) that would have been scrapped otherwise. AMD has every incentive to not have any to sell and the low availability simply means that yields got that good with sales holding strong enough that AMD did not have excess dies to sacrifice for anything below the 3600.

Hm yeah, but it still proves these are too hard to make compared to profit and therefore other CPUs. So AMD doesn't produce these.