Will we see Trophy Hunter decks?

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Trophy Hunter" is a Rush deck that contains Red List and/or Trumpet-Up
Charges instead of "normal" Rush actions and some Trophies. The goal is
to make minions Red List, burn them and get Trophies. Some of the
Trophies are very powerful...
What do you think about it? Do you think that these decks may be good
enough or even popular?
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

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Ector wrote:
| "Trophy Hunter" is a Rush deck that contains Red List and/or Trumpet-Up
| Charges instead of "normal" Rush actions and some Trophies. The goal is
| to make minions Red List, burn them and get Trophies. Some of the
| Trophies are very powerful...

Which ones were you thinking of, specifically?

| What do you think about it? Do you think that these decks may be good
| enough or even popular?

Nope. You have to burn the minion -- very hard to do consistently.

You also have to get your "I put Bob on the Red List" cards before your
"I vaporize a minion" cards, and if they come the other way around, it's
not gonna do you much good.

- --
Derek

insert clever quotation here

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On 12 Mar 2005 16:25:32 -0800, "Ector" <Ector@mail.ru> wrote:

>"Trophy Hunter" is a Rush deck that contains Red List and/or Trumpet-Up
>Charges instead of "normal" Rush actions and some Trophies. The goal is
>to make minions Red List, burn them and get Trophies. Some of the
>Trophies are very powerful...
>What do you think about it? Do you think that these decks may be good
>enough or even popular?

I figure the window of popularity to be about a month.

I'm not sure what "good enough" is, but problems with these decks
being good:
1) rushing with nonweenies;
2) being required to burn minions rather than just torpor;
3) trophies take up deck space and, unless you have a good discarding
engine, master/hand space.

Note that the effectiveness of something and the popularity of it
don't necessarily coincide. I'm talking about combat in general. As
combat becomes more popular, something posited by some, it may become
harder to win with.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Orpheus wrote:
> ...and the Trophies will
> come into play whenever the Famed minion gets eaten by his own
> controller's pawns. Like : you burn it, I win, you don't, I win !!

Nope. If you're not the one whose minion takes the action to burn the
Red List minion, you can't get the Trophy.

John Eno
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On 12 Mar 2005 16:25:32 -0800, "Ector" <Ector@mail.ru> wrote:

>"Trophy Hunter" is a Rush deck that contains Red List and/or Trumpet-Up
>Charges instead of "normal" Rush actions and some Trophies. The goal is
>to make minions Red List, burn them and get Trophies. Some of the
>Trophies are very powerful...
>What do you think about it? Do you think that these decks may be good
>enough or even popular?

Yes, we will see them. Yes, they will be popular. Yes, they have the
potential to be good.

Example 1:


Deck Name: Muaziz - Trophy Hunter
Created By: The Lasombra
Description: Cardano creates a new Red Lists and then untaps with a
Freak Drive. Muaziz rushes with some Burst of Sunlight, Skin of Rock,
and Amaranth. With freedom from the restrictions of Blood Hunts, the
Tremere will be Big Game hunters.


Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 19, Max: 39, Avg: 7.50)
3 Muaziz aus dom for THA 7, Tremere
3 Cardano ani aus cel DOM FOR THA 9, Tremere, Prince
3 Ulugh Beg AUS cel DOM for pot THA 10, Tremere, Justicar
3 Fidus for tha vis 4, Gargoyle

Library: (90 cards)
Master (19 cards)
6 Blood Doll
1 Elder Library
2 Parthenon, The
1 Trophy: Diablerie
1 Trophy: Discipline
3 Trophy: Domain
1 Trophy: Hunting Ground
2 Trophy: Progeny
2 Vast Wealth

Action (17 cards)
2 Ambush
3 Big Game
2 Bum`s Rush
2 Harass
2 Nose of the Hound
6 Red List

Action Modifier (10 cards)
10 Freak Drive

Political Action (2 cards)
2 Alastor

Reaction (14 cards)
8 Deflection
6 Obedience

Combat (26 cards)
8 Amaranth
8 Burst of Sunlight
5 Skin of Night
5 Skin of Rock

Equipment (2 cards)
2 Ankara Citadel, Turkey, The




Carpe noctem.

Lasombra

http://www.TheLasombra.com
Your best online source for information about V:TES.
Now also featuring individual card sales and sales
of booster and starter box displays.
 
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On 12 Mar 2005 16:25:32 -0800, "Ector" <Ector@mail.ru> wrote:

>"Trophy Hunter" is a Rush deck that contains Red List and/or Trumpet-Up
>Charges instead of "normal" Rush actions and some Trophies. The goal is
>to make minions Red List, burn them and get Trophies. Some of the
>Trophies are very powerful...
>What do you think about it? Do you think that these decks may be good
>enough or even popular?

Other than all the requirements to play "trophy hunt" with at least
some efficiency already mentioned by other posters, Trophies are
rares. Not that you'd need many of them - I wouldn't include more than
1 or 2 trophies in any given deck - but many rush strategies benefit
way more from Trophy A or B instead of the others.

I'm being totally personal here. I didn't get a Trophy: Diablerie in
my KMW box. Now if I want to play the 6 trophies I got, I need not
only to play titled, be able to mark red listers and torporize
vampires, but I have to survive a blood hunt also. So I won't try
anything with this if I can't find a reliable way to use Sacrificial
Lamb or to use a Red List minion myself to play Rebirth... Too much
setup.

But I guess these decks will be popular in my country soon. People
just love combat and play all types of non-viable combat just because
they want to. Just give them some time to grab a trophy or two, some
Red List/Trumped Up Charges and they'll show up with something.

best,

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:TES National Coordinator for Brazil
Giovanni Clan Newsletter Editor
-----------------------------------------------------
V:tES Brasil Site (only in Portuguese for now)
http://planeta.terra.com.br/lazer/vtesbrasil/
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

>>"Trophy Hunter" is a Rush deck that contains Red List and/or Trumpet-Up
>>Charges instead of "normal" Rush actions and some Trophies. The goal is
>>to make minions Red List, burn them and get Trophies. Some of the
>>Trophies are very powerful...
>>What do you think about it? Do you think that these decks may be good
>>enough or even popular?

>Yes, we will see them. Yes, they will be popular. Yes, they have the
>potential to be good.


Example 2:

Deck Name: Lucita - Big Game Expert
Created By: The Lasombra
Description: Moncada and Lucita add minions to their own special Red
List.


Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 32, Max: 40, Avg: 9.00)
3 Marcus Vitel DOM FOR OBF OBT PRE 10, Ventrue, Prince
3 Lucita cel DOM FOR OBT pot 8, Lasombra
3 Lucita (ADV) cel pot DOM FOR OBT 8, Lasombra, Archbishop
3 Ambrosio Luis Moncada aus DOM for OBT POT PRE 10, Lasombra,
Cardinal

Library: (90 cards)
Master (18 cards)
5 Blood Doll
3 Information Highway
2 Parthenon, The
2 Trophy: Diablerie
2 Trophy: Domain
3 Trophy: Hunting Ground
1 Trophy: Retainers

Action (17 cards)
2 Ambush
3 Big Game
2 Bum`s Rush
2 Harass
2 Political Struggle
6 Red List

Action Modifier (14 cards)
10 Freak Drive
4 Shadow Play

Reaction (12 cards)
6 Deflection
2 Obedience
4 Wake with Evening`s Freshness

Combat (27 cards)
7 Amaranth
6 Arms of the Abyss
3 Disarm
5 Entombment
3 Shadow Body
3 Skin of Steel

Retainer (2 cards)
1 J. S. Simmons, Esq.
1 Tasha Morgan

Carpe noctem.

Lasombra

http://www.TheLasombra.com
Your best online source for information about V:TES.
Now also featuring individual card sales and sales
of booster and starter box displays.
 
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The Lasombra wrote:
|>>Dasein wrote:
|>>What do you think about it? Do you think that these decks may be good
|>>enough or even popular?
|
|>Yes, we will see them. Yes, they will be popular. Yes, they have the
|>potential to be good.
|
| Combat (27 cards)
| 7 Amaranth

The followup: Do you think any that don't use Amaranth will ever be
even halfway viable?

- --
Derek

insert clever quotation here

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

>|>>Dasein wrote:
>|>>What do you think about it? Do you think that these decks may be good
>|>>enough or even popular?

>The Lasombra wrote:|
>|>Yes, we will see them. Yes, they will be popular. Yes, they have the
>|>potential to be good.

>| Combat (27 cards)
>| 7 Amaranth

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 15:30:07 -0500, Derek Ray <lorimer@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>The followup: Do you think any that don't use Amaranth will ever be
>even halfway viable?

Nope.

Burning vampires outright is too difficult. Reliable Trophy use will
require Amaranth. Muaziz, Tariq, and Samat will rule the Trophy
hunting game, as they can get away with the diablerie even without the
Trophy: Diablerie card. Gangrel Antitribu will be next, with Gangrel
Conspiracy. Black Hand will be next, with Ebony Fox Hunt. Camarilla
vampires will be next, with Absolution of the Diablerist.

I don't see Independent Trophy decks becoming viable any time soon.





Carpe noctem.

Lasombra

http://www.TheLasombra.com
Your best online source for information about V:TES.
Now also featuring individual card sales and sales
of booster and starter box displays.
 
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"Ector" <Ector@mail.ru> wrote in message
news:1110673532.287767.287980@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> "Trophy Hunter" is a Rush deck that contains Red List and/or Trumpet-Up
> Charges instead of "normal" Rush actions and some Trophies. The goal is
> to make minions Red List, burn them and get Trophies. Some of the
> Trophies are very powerful...
> What do you think about it? Do you think that these decks may be good
> enough or even popular?

I posted [DECK] Godess on a Mountaintop which is a Trophy deck. I have
played it once and got 3 out of 4 vps with it.


--
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr.
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
 
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Derek Ray wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Ector wrote:
> | "Trophy Hunter" is a Rush deck that contains Red List and/or
Trumpet-Up
> | Charges instead of "normal" Rush actions and some Trophies. The
goal is
> | to make minions Red List, burn them and get Trophies. Some of the
> | Trophies are very powerful...
>
> Which ones were you thinking of, specifically?

Trophy: Domain should be good for any Rush deck.
Trophy: Retainers should be good for Gangrels, since they
would be able to fetch Dog Pack. Xaviar is the best fighter for this
theme, IMHO.
Trophy: Hunting Grounds should be good for any combat deck that cannot
protect The Rack.

> | What do you think about it? Do you think that these decks may be
good
> | enough or even popular?
>
> Nope. You have to burn the minion -- very hard to do consistently.
Some vampires can do this quite consistently. Xaviar, for instance, can
strike for 3 aggravated with only one Claws.
And he is 10-cap with votes, so he can play Red List on somebody.

> You also have to get your "I put Bob on the Red List" cards before
your
> "I vaporize a minion" cards, and if they come the other way around,
it's
> not gonna do you much good.
Do you mean that someone else can use your Red List cards?

Yours,
Ector
 
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kushiel a écrit :
> Orpheus wrote:
>
>>...and the Trophies will
>>come into play whenever the Famed minion gets eaten by his own
>>controller's pawns. Like : you burn it, I win, you don't, I win !!
>
>
> Nope. If you're not the one whose minion takes the action to burn the
> Red List minion, you can't get the Trophy.
>
> John Eno

Exact, my bad. So not even that. 🙁
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

>>| Combat (27 cards)
>>| 7 Amaranth
>
>
> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 15:30:07 -0500, Derek Ray <lorimer@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>The followup: Do you think any that don't use Amaranth will ever be
>>even halfway viable?
>
>
> Nope.
>
> Burning vampires outright is too difficult. Reliable Trophy use will
> require Amaranth. Muaziz, Tariq, and Samat will rule the Trophy
> hunting game, as they can get away with the diablerie even without the
> Trophy: Diablerie card. Gangrel Antitribu will be next, with Gangrel
> Conspiracy. Black Hand will be next, with Ebony Fox Hunt. Camarilla
> vampires will be next, with Absolution of the Diablerist.

Hum... What happens to the Great Lasombra ? Forgot Ahriman's Demesne ? 😉

I had a try at it recently, and my conclusion was : too much setup when
you can just torporize and Graverob ; now, I may be changing my mind
about it. And after all, Lasombra have their titled guys (and Kiasyd
have one) for Red Listing !

Orpheus
 
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On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 23:50:28 +0100, Orpheus <orpheus.13@DEADfree.fr>
wrote:

>Hum... What happens to the Great Lasombra ? Forgot Ahriman's Demesne ? 😉

No.

Ahriman's Demesne is not reliable.
Compare to Entombment / Amaranth.

At Saturday's tournament, I used Entombment on 3 vampires and
diableriezed every single one.





Carpe noctem.

Lasombra

http://www.TheLasombra.com
Your best online source for information about V:TES.
Now also featuring individual card sales and sales
of booster and starter box displays.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 15:30:07 -0500, Derek Ray <lorimer@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>The Lasombra wrote:
>|>>Dasein wrote:
>|>>What do you think about it? Do you think that these decks may be good
>|>>enough or even popular?
>|
>|>Yes, we will see them. Yes, they will be popular. Yes, they have the
>|>potential to be good.
>|
>| Combat (27 cards)
>| 7 Amaranth
>
>The followup: Do you think any that don't use Amaranth will ever be
>even halfway viable?

Fueled By Heart's Blood and a few Fortschritt Library (to avoid
wasting too many slots for Events), perhaps?

Provided you'll use some big vampire to do the job, obviously.

best,

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:TES National Coordinator for Brazil
Giovanni Newsletter Editor
-----------------------------------------------------
V:tES Brasil Site (only in Portuguese for now)
http://planeta.terra.com.br/lazer/vtesbrasil/
 
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On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 17:27:28 -0500, The Lasombra
<TheLasombra@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I don't see Independent Trophy decks becoming viable any time soon.
>Carpe noctem.
>Lasombra
>http://www.TheLasombra.com
>Your best online source for information about V:TES.
>Now also featuring individual card sales and sales
>of booster and starter box displays.

I'll take this as a respectful challenge. 😉

Ignazio will get Fueled By Heart's Blood...

best,

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:TES National Coordinator for Brazil
Giovanni Newsletter Editor
-----------------------------------------------------
V:tES Brasil Site (only in Portuguese for now)
http://planeta.terra.com.br/lazer/vtesbrasil/
 
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On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 08:48:57 -0300, "Fabio \"Sooner\" Macedo"
<fabio_sooner@NOSPAMyahoo.com.br> wrote:

>On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 17:27:28 -0500, The Lasombra
><TheLasombra@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I don't see Independent Trophy decks becoming viable any time soon.
>>Carpe noctem.
>>Lasombra
>>http://www.TheLasombra.com
>>Your best online source for information about V:TES.
>>Now also featuring individual card sales and sales
>>of booster and starter box displays.
>
>I'll take this as a respectful challenge. 😉
>Ignazio will get Fueled By Heart's Blood...

How about this one?

Deck Name: Ignazio, the Trophy Hunter
Created By: Fabio Sooner
Description: Play events with caution, since each one is a step for
Mukhtar Bey's doom. You need Fueled and two others to make Ignazio
prone to diablerie, or just one if you manage to slap Obfuscate on
him.

Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 18, Max: 34, Avg: 6,5)
---------------------------------------------
1 Wolfgang for obf pot 4 Nosferatu
1 Earl dom for pot 4 Ventrue
1 Lorrie Dunsirn for nec POT 4 Abomination
2 Benedict Giovanni cel dom nec FOR POT 6 Giovanni
1 Pug Jackson for pre CEL POT 6 Brujah
3 Mukhtar Bey obf pot FOR PRE QUI 7 Caitiff
3 Ignazio Giovanni obf DOM FOR NEC POT 9 Giovanni

Library: (90 cards)
-------------------
Master (16 cards)
1 Trophy: Domain
1 Trophy: Hunting Ground
1 Trophy: Progeny
2 Obfuscate
1 Morgue Hunting Ground
2 Fortschritt Library
4 Blood Doll
1 Haven Uncovered
1 Channel 10
1 Dreams of the Sphinx
1 Dis Pater

Action (13 cards)
4 Bum`s Rush
4 Red List
2 Big Game
3 Ambush

Action Modifier (12 cards)
6 Forgotten Labyrinth
4 Freak Drive
2 Hidden Lurker

Reaction (8 cards)
5 Deflection
3 Wake with Evening`s Freshness

Combat (34 cards)
6 Undead Strength
8 Immortal Grapple
8 Disarm
4 Unflinching Persistence
4 Skin of Steel
2 Soak
2 Skin of Rock

Event (7 cards)
2 Fueled by Heart`s Blood
2 Blood Trade
2 Restricted Vitae
1 Torpid Blood

This deck was last saved at 09:02:58 on 14/3/2005

best,

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:TES National Coordinator for Brazil
Giovanni Newsletter Editor
-----------------------------------------------------
V:tES Brasil Site (only in Portuguese for now)
http://planeta.terra.com.br/lazer/vtesbrasil/
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Ector" <Ector@mail.ru> escribió en el mensaje
news:1110673532.287767.287980@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> "Trophy Hunter" is a Rush deck that contains Red List and/or Trumpet-Up
> Charges instead of "normal" Rush actions and some Trophies. The goal is
> to make minions Red List, burn them and get Trophies. Some of the
> Trophies are very powerful...
> What do you think about it? Do you think that these decks may be good
> enough or even popular?
>

Might be, but the tech implied in turning *someone* redlist, the trophies
themselves and the stealth/vote push needed to name redlists, forces yo to
reduce consistently either your combat or your defence. IMO the nosfi
princes (either crypt) backed with permanents will be seen, along with
tremere "combo-combat" decks like muaziz.cardano (as shown by lasombra on
this thread) and toreador with grand balls, rifles and archons/anathemas.

I've evaluated the standard "trophy module" to pack 6 trophies and 15 cards
to turn red list/pass the action to turn red list, that shortens somewhat
the rest of the deck, and nothing in the package offers nothing but the
possibility to gain them.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> - To make a Red List, you need a Titled vamp.
> - The most efficient and popular tactics with titled fighters seems to
> be Anathema decks, although it requires a Prince / Justicar and passing
> a vote.

The thing everyone is complaining about is that Trophy Hunters have to
burn vampires. No one has pointed out that Anathema burns vampires. Also,
a Trophy Hunter deck doesn't necessarily need to rely on burnination,
since it can still play Fame, Tension, and bleed.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

I got me a Trophy deck that works pretty well by my standards. It's
more of a toolbox, but Trophies and Red List are an interesting
addition.

2x Don Cruez (10 cap Just ani CEL dom POT PRE pro maneuver)
2x Constanza Vinti (8 cap Prin CEL DOM POT +2 bleed Ventrue)
2x Donal O'Connor (8 cap Prin CEL DOM POT burn to block)
2x Anvil (6 cap Prim CEL dom POT PRE tha)
2x Rake (6 cap Prin aus cel pot PRE)
2x Volker, the Puppet Prince (5 cap Prin CEL pot)

Master (15)
3x Blood Doll
1x Carthage Remembered
1x Depravity
4x Dominate
2x Perfectionist
1x Trophy: Clan Respect
1x Trophy: Domain
1x Trophy: Hunting Ground
1x Trophy: Safe Passage

Action (6)
3x Third Tradition: Progeny
3x Red List

Vote (11)
2x Parity Shift
6x Anathema
3x Archon

Action Modifier (6)
6x Conditioning

Reaction (12)
8x Second Tradition: Domain
4x Deflection

Combat (40)
5x Taste of Vitae
3x Pulled Fangs
3x Disarm
8x Torn Signpost
8x Stutter-Step
4x Pursuit
5x Psyche!
4x Stunt Cycle
 
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On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:08:24 -0300, "Fabio \"Sooner\" Macedo"
<fabio_sooner@NOSPAMyahoo.com.br> wrote:

>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 08:48:57 -0300, "Fabio \"Sooner\" Macedo"
><fabio_sooner@NOSPAMyahoo.com.br> wrote:

>How about this one?
>
>Deck Name: Ignazio, the Trophy Hunter
>Created By: Fabio Sooner
>Description: Play events with caution, since each one is a step for
>Mukhtar Bey's doom. You need Fueled and two others to make Ignazio
>prone to diablerie, or just one if you manage to slap Obfuscate on
>him.

>Combat (34 cards)
> 6 Undead Strength
> 8 Immortal Grapple
> 8 Disarm
> 4 Unflinching Persistence
> 4 Skin of Steel
> 2 Soak
> 2 Skin of Rock

Forgot to include at least 4x Taste of Vitae. Damn.

Back to the deckbuilding board...

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:TES National Coordinator for Brazil
Giovanni Newsletter Editor
-----------------------------------------------------
V:tES Brasil Site (only in Portuguese for now)
http://planeta.terra.com.br/lazer/vtesbrasil/
 
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The Lasombra wrote:

>
> Burning vampires outright is too difficult. Reliable Trophy use will
> require Amaranth. Muaziz, Tariq, and Samat will rule the Trophy
> hunting game, as they can get away with the diablerie even without the
> Trophy: Diablerie card. Gangrel Antitribu will be next, with Gangrel
> Conspiracy. Black Hand will be next, with Ebony Fox Hunt. Camarilla
> vampires will be next, with Absolution of the Diablerist.
>

You're making it too difficult.

Now, I'm not entirely certain grabbing a handful of trophies is in
itself a winning strategy, but it's easy enough to do.

Needed cards are: Red List, Concealed Weapon and .44 Magnum. Add
stealth and multiple copies of Caiaphas Smith. Isn't it nice to
see that ally be of theoretical use after all? :)

Sten During
 
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Frederick Scott wrote:

> >> And if Anathema burns the vampire, then your vampire didn't do it,
and
> >> you get no Trophy.
> >
> > If a Red List minion is burned in combat, it doesn't matter if the
opposing minion did it directly or not. The Red List minion
> > can burn because of a self-inflicted Burst of Sunlight, you still
get the Trophy.
>
> I think Jeff's point {snip} is
> that if you were the one who caused the Anathema to be placed on the
Red
> List minion and someone *else* blocked, was blocked by, or rushed the
RL
> vampire and subsequently burned it because of the Anathema in the
resultant
> combat, then "you" (quote-unquote) wouldn't get the trophy.
>

*psst* I think Jeff was just mistaken. It happens. Even LSJ has been
wrong at times... 8)
 
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> Even your allies may deny your Anathema since they can think that
7-10
> extra pool would be too good for you. Red List is much more
reliable...
> at least if they would block it, you'll get a chance to fight :)
>

You know, in all the games that I've played, I reckon I've only ever
seen an Anathema not pass on maybe one occassion. Normally, everyone
at the table is happy for it, coz there is always the chance that
they'll manage to grab it... I've even seen a non-combat deck collect
on it once, after the player who passed the Anathema was unable to
capitalise on the vampire who had a haven and the Anathema. The vamp
was on a single blood, and a weenie just wandered on over and punched
for 1, popping the vamp and collecting a cool 6 or 7 pool for his
trouble.

And then there are intercept decks with Falcon's Eye or Eagles Sight.
These love it when Anathema hit the table.

--> J
 
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