Win2K, GeForce3 Display problem

[Toejam31]

On my system, whenever I run a game, the display is shifted over about an inch to the right. Everything looks okay, except that I can't see the entire screen.

I think this is because I can't set the monitor refresh rate higher than 75Hz. I used to run into this issue when using a GeForce2 card, but setting the refresh rate to 85Hz fixed the problem. At that refresh rate, the display would be centered.

Unfortunately, in Win2K, with a new GeForce3, I haven't been able to find a driver that supports a refresh rate higher than 75Hz that shows up in the Display Properties Mode List. The odd thing is that the nv4_disp.inf file "appears" to support refresh rates much higher than this, whether it's a 6.x, 7.x, 10.x, or 12.x driver.

Any ideas on a workaround? Or a decent driver?

Toejam31


<font color=purple>If there was a reason for everything, having faith would be redundant.</font color=purple>

 

[Andyddr]

I`ve tried the 12.10 drivers and can get a rate of 85 on my monitor.There is also a fix available that fixed the refresh rate for Nvidia cards. It can be found @ ntcompatible.com under the FAQ section. Good luck and enjoy your 3.

Your new hardware is out-of-date

 

[Andyddr]

http://www.fileplanet.com/index.asp?search=nvidia+refresh&submit.x=41&submit.y=4&file=55405

Get it here

Your new hardware is out-of-date

 

[Toejam31]

Thanks for the information.

As it turns out, I tried the fix before I posted to the forum ... but at the time I was so worn out from lack of sleep that I forgot to mention it.

I found a problem while using the program. When I tried to select 1024x768x32 @85Hz, the program showed the refresh rate in red, and gave me a warning message. I told the program that "I knew what I was doing" and rebooted. I've got a fairly decent monitor, and knew that it could easily support this refresh rate.

In Display Properties, I checked the refresh rate, and saw that I was still at 75Hz. But then I noticed that my machine was set at 1024x768x16 ... and every time I attempted to select 32bit color, the resolution tab switched to 800x600. I could select higher resolutions at 32bit color ... but not 1024x768. And still nothing at 85Hz.

From all appearances, despite what was listed in Display Properties, I still was really in 32bit color. I looked at several photographs, and all of them looked fine. Norton System Information said the display was 1024x768 with 64K color?

That was when I noticed an odd rippling on the screen, especially with the Start Menu. The menu was "rippled" along the edges, like a wavy line. In fact, the whole screen seemed slightly out-of-kilter. Adjusting the display with the monitor controls didn't really help.

Adding the information back into the Registry from the fix, and rebooting didn't change anything, either.

After this happened, I uninstalled the drivers I had been using (at this point, the 12.10's) and reloaded the standard VGA driver. Then I loaded the Elsa driver.

Right now, there is still a slight rippling on the screen along the menus, and I noticed when using 3DMark 2001 that the screen is much darker than before I tried the fix, even if it was finally centered on the display. The rippling is not quite as bad, but it is still there. I can use the monitor controls to make the picture look better during the games (brightness, contrast) but afterwards, I have to readjust the display for 2D, or it is much too bright.

Re-installing the the monitor driver didn't help.

Because of this, I am a little worried (make that ... very worried!) about attempted to use the refresh rate fix again. I don't want to do anything that might damage the monitor. Perhaps this has something to do with Windows controlling the Display Timing?

Obviously, this kind of problem is new to me, and I am a little over-my-head in trying to get the kinks worked out. Any suggestions or comments?

Toejam31



<font color=purple>If there was a reason for everything, having faith would be redundant.</font color=purple>

 

[lhgpoobaa]

sounds errily familiar
im trying all sorts of diff drivers with my tnt2 pro
i KNOW y monitor can do 1024x768x32x85hz or 800x600x32x100hz
but now that ive got win2000pro im loked down to 70hz...
i d/l that nvtweak to change it, selected the resolutions i wanted and rebooted.
it went worse
i had the option of only 3 resolutions and fixed color depths & moronic refresh rates
eg 1280x1024x32x60hz (yuck)
800x600x16x72
or 640x480x256x85
only 3 outta the many possible combinations and permutations!
got rid of that program, so at least im back to where i started...
but still cant access the higher refresh rates... (eg checkbox is greyed out)
so im stuck at 1024x768x70hz
p.s. tried 12.40, 7.76 & 6.?? drives all to no avail.


"Don't be too proud of this technological terror you have created"~Darth Vader, Star wars

 

[James35]

id say check see what your moniter can actually handle.

ill go have a look later on today at two other moniters running the 12.40 drivers see what there max settings are.

but may simply be the moniter cant handle higher than what ever setting your getting?

 

[Toejam31]

I appreciate the thought, James35, but I'm positive that my monitor can handle a decent refresh rate at 1024x786. When I was running Win98SE, I actually had the monitor running with a refresh rate of 120Hz! I'm using a 22inch Iiyama Vision Master Pro 510.

I've since discovered since writing this post that this might be an issue with Plug-and-Play, a GeForce3 card, and this type of monitor in Win2K. Some suggestions have been to install the monitor as just a regular Plug-and-Play monitor, without the Iiyama drivers (which didn't work for me) and to try out a set of BNC connectors. That's my next step. I don't know if it will make a difference ... but it can't hurt.

It's also possible that some beta nVidia drivers don't currently support a refresh rate over 75Hz in Win2K ... although I can't be sure about that.

The 12.40 drivers did help, because my display is now centered when playing games ... but 2D would look much better if I could just get up to at least 85Hz.

Unfortunately, I can't go back to a lower series of drivers, like the 6.50's, because they don't recognize a GeForce3 card. I know that these drivers work ... on a GeForce2 card in Win2K.

So my suspicion is that the drivers are at fault. If I was running another video card, or still using Win98 ... I'd be able to do whatever I want with the refresh rate.

Sometimes attempting to run cutting-edge hardware is a real pain.

Toejam31

<font color=purple>If there was a reason for everything, having faith would be redundant.</font color=purple>

 

[James35]

Sometimes attempting to run cutting-edge hardware is a real pain.

Too True lol

but on the moniter side about 85 hz? i am running at 85 hz straight thru on the 12.40 drivers.
have been since i installed 2000 to be honest. and also keep in mine i can run up to 100Hz at 1024.768
im not using anything special either
i have an MV920 compaq moniter using a hercules 32 meg gts on 2000 SP-1 thru Sp-2

ok i just went thru it i can run 85 Hz max now not 100 at 1024x768 .hmmm maybe it was the 12.10's drivers... i just happen to think i didnt honestly check that when i upgraded to the 40's

u cant get to 85 at all? on any setting?

 

[Toejam31]

Nope ... not even if I pray, wail, gnash my teeth, and pull out my hair. Odd, huh? 75Hz is the best I can do, regardless of the resolution and the color depth.

I'll let you know if the BNC connectors make a difference.

Toejam31

<font color=purple>If there was a reason for everything, having faith would be redundant.</font color=purple>

 

[stonerboy]

This probably won't help you, but i have a similar problem on my GeForce 2 GTS using the 12.10 drivers. I can't seem to set the resolution higher than 1280x960 in win2k or winme. I know my monitor supports up to 1600x1200 and up to 100 Hz refresh rate. When I ran the regular Asus drivers for the video card I didn't see this, but since installing the 12.10 drivers it happens. I guess that is the risk you take with Beta drivers.

"In three words I can sum up everything I've learned in life: It goes on." -Robert Frost

 

[James35]

ok i was over at my parents place and redoing theres.. i installed the 12.40 drivers on there system which is an tnt 2ultra but there system went clean up to 120 hz
the setting they are on right now is 1024.768 at 100Hz.
now the ex wifes system i went and checked today as well. and she cant clear 75 hz but she has a crappy moniter.
dont know if this can help at all. but still think its the moniter itself and the driver is detecting what the moniter can handle.

Have you found out anything else?

 

[Toejam31]

I've ordered the BNC connectors, but they probably won't come in until sometime next week. I didn't have any in stock, as these are not a high-profile item.

It appears to me, (and I'm sure that you have noticed, too) that this is almost exclusively an issue with the GeForce3 cards and/or the drivers in Win2K. Since the cards are so new, it's nearly impossible to find a driver set that recognizes the new card ... and only in the past week or so have workable drivers begun to appear on the manufacturers websites, such as Elsa, and Hercules. I haven't seen one on the VisionTek site yet. So if you didn't get an OEM CD driver disk, with at least the 12.00's on it, you are stuck with the WHQL 7.58's, (which will not properly detect the card) or forced to use the unofficial leaked drivers.

I never had any refresh rate problems with a Geforce2 card, regardless of the driver, or the operating system.

Most decent 17inch monitors can easily support a refresh rate of 85Hz at 1024x768 ... as long as the video card supports it. Since a GeForce3 card, according to the .inf file, can support a refresh up to 120Hz at that resolution ... there can be only two conclusions. (Unless I've missed something, somewhere.) Either there is some aspect of the operating system that refuses to allow a refresh rate over 75Hz with this card, or the problem lies with the Detonator 4 drivers.

I really can't believe that all of a sudden, no one's monitor can handle anything but a low refresh rate. Personally, I can't purchase a consumer video accelerator that can actually push my monitor to it's fullest capabilities. The recommended resolution and refresh rate for my monitor is 1280x1024@85Hz, and it can go much higher with a 360MHz dot clock. You catch my drift, dude?

Thanks for working on this problem. My next suggestion would be for us to start checking to see if the problem is inherent to these video cards, and if it only happens in Win2k. Basically, we need a working database, such as:

Win98SE/GeForce3 ... Det 7.58
Win98SE/GeForce3 ... Det 10.80
" " " " ... Det 12.40

Win2K/GeForce3 ... Det 11.1
" " " " ... Det 12.40

All done using different monitors that can support refresh rates over 75Hz.

I have no doubt that a GeForce2 card can support a higher refresh rate than this, using any of the Det 3 drivers. I've used two, in two different operating systems, with three different monitors. I never had the chance to try out the Det 4's with a GeForce2, but even without the DirectX 8 optimization, I'd be surprised if there was any problems.

I'm hoping that the BNC connectors will correct my situation ... but this will make no difference to people who own monitors that only have a D-SUB connector. I should be able to choose a factory-defined preset, which will allow me to override the monitor timing currently addressed by the video card.

But here again ... that won't help everyone else.

I noticed that you are running a GeForce2 card, and are also not having any problems.

As for ihgpoobaa, his situation is slightly different than this. He is running with a TNT2 card, and his refresh rates problems sound like they are even worse than mine. I would suggest that he clean out all trace of the drivers he is using, and install an older version.

My brother has an elderly machine with a TNT2 card and Win2k, but he is currently in Chicago until the 28th studying for his MCSE. When he gets back, I'll find out what drivers he is using and post the information for poor ihgpoobaa! I'd hate to be locked in at 60 to 70Hz!

That's where I stand on the issue, currently. Let me know if you discover anything new.

Toejam31

<font color=purple>If there was a reason for everything, having faith would be redundant.</font color=purple>

 

[James35]

Yes , i understand that, basically everyone behind me gets hand me downs on my equipment 'they like it when i upgrade because when i do they do ' but with ihgpoobaa in the mix having the same problem. I felt it time to check every card to see if it is the driver or moniters. to build the database up on it thats why i let u know what i found on the other machines. and considering my moniter is good to 100 hz the 40's should give me the option also.'now im more awake and thinking clearer.
so this is where i think maybe the problem lie's
the one thing that changed between the 12.10's that were reading my card right and the 12.40's that are now only up to 85hz is that between the driver changes is that i installed SP-2 in. so my questioin is this. have u loaded up SP-2 yet? did the card come in between this?
and if u swapped it to say a stock win2k machine then Sp-1 and then an Sp-2 would u get differing results?

the one thing that is differnt between my dads and mine is is that ilayed in SP-2 directly in with out the upgrades in between, where as mine was going up in steps.

since i cannot afford a geforce 3 yet to try this. you might wanna consider if the service pack is having an affect on the card. is a shot in the dark.

what do you think? maybe the Os itself? is causing the problem?

 

[James35]

best i can do for ya is to look around the web see if i find the problem. ill get back with u the moment i find out anything on it.

 

[Toejam31]

I see that stonerboy is running a dual-boot system with WinME and Win2K (or he has upgraded from WinME to Win2K ... I can't tell from the post) and he is having problems with the Detonator 4 12.10 drivers and his GeForce2 GTS card, both with the resolution and the refresh rate. But he had no problems with the Asus reference drivers. I can't tell from his post if it was before or after applying SP1 or SP2 ... he doesn't mention it, or what the version number was of the Asus drivers he was formerly using that worked just fine.

You are having problems since shifting to the 12.40's from the 12.10's, James, and you applied SP2 in between changing drivers. It's interesting to note that you can reach 85Hz, but not 100Hz. That was not the case with the 12.10's, right?

Your parents are using a TNT2 Ultra with the 12.40's and are doing fine.

ihgpoobaa has a TNT2 Pro with Win2K, but I can't tell what version of the OS he is running, and his refresh rates are screwed up.

My current version of Win2K has SP1 on the installation CD, and I ran into the same problem, no matter what drivers I used, before and after SP2 ... with the GeForce3.

However, on my previous machine, I was using a GeForce2 card, and I upgraded to Win2K from Win98SE as a fresh install. I used the 6.50 drivers ... and had no problems. The version of Win2K I installed on that machine had no service pack ... but even after upgrading to SP1, I still had no resolution problems.

Here's what it boils down to: I don't have enough information. There are four of us in this thread, and no one has posted enough specifications about their various systems that would allow me to get a handle on this. James, you have mentioned 3 different machines; your computer, your parents, and your ex-wife's. Overload! LOL! So far, all I am certain about is that we are all running an nVidia card.

Just to get it started, here's the relevant information on both of my last two computers. I hope that everyone will do this, for all the machines they have looked at, or are using. It will really help narrow the focus on the problem.

Machine 1:

AMD Athlon Thunderbird 1 GHz
Creative Labs Annihilator 2 GeForce2 32 DDR
Operating system: Win98SE
Drivers: Detonator 3 6.50's
Iiyama Vision Master Pro 510
No problems

Same system with Win2K and 6.50 drivers = no problems
Same system with Win2K SP1 and 6.50 drivers = no problems

Machine 2:

Pentium IV 1.7 GHz
VisionTek GeForce3 64 DDR
Operating system: Win2K SP1
VM Pro 510 monitor
Drivers: VisionTek Reference 7.58. VisionTek Reference 12.00, Det 3 10.80, 11.10, Det 4 12.00, 12.10, 12.20, 12.40.

Refresh rate problem with all drivers.

Same system with Win2K SP2 and 12.40 = Refresh rate problem

Maximum resolution and refresh rate allowed in the Display Properties list with 12.40's: 1920x1200@70Hz. 75Hz is the maximum in the list for any resolution or color depth. Maximum resolution and refresh rate allowed by the monitor is much higher.

The video card BIOS version is: 3.20.0010

At some point I even had the card identified as an Elsa Gladiac 920 (their version of the GeForce3) and ran the card like that for two days. I'll have to go look and see what driver version that was ... I'll return and edit this post afterwards.

This is the kind of thing I need from all of you to fill in the missing pieces. In other words, volunteers needed to post their system specifications! Even if you don't have a problem, I'd like to see what you are running for comparison's sake.

I still think that ihgpoobaa needs to completely uninstall his current drivers, and then attempt to use an older version. This might get rid of his problem, and increase the system stability.

stonerboy needs to go back to the Asus Reference drivers, see if that corrects the problem, and give us more information all-around.

James, you need to reinstall the 12.10's, now that you are running SP2, and see if that corrects your problem. If it does ... then applying the service pack didn't make any difference.

I'll be looking forward to seeing the specifications on these different systems. We've got to get organized in order to figure this out! <GRIN>

My current suspicion is that the video output level and the signal timing of the video card I am using is not within the specification of the monitor, using the current drivers. This would explain why I was having difficulties with screen synchronization, and why the screen still tends to be too dark. I have had to increase the brightness of the monitor by around 25% for everything to look normal. Whether this is solely because of the driver, or a combination of the driver and the operating system remains to be seen.

Toejam31


<font color=purple>If there was a reason for everything, having faith would be redundant.</font color=purple>

 

[James35]

This is what I have going here.

One thing to note first, I Have had this 'dark' problem since I bought the geforce2 GTS the cards prior are not having such a problem. Changing the Lighting under Windows Fixes that. Also that has taken place on both 98 and 2000.

My System is as follows:

Athlon 1.1 Ghz
MSI K7T Pro With Latest Bios
256 Meg Cas 3 Micron Ram
Hercules Prophet GeForce2 GTS/DDR 32 Meg With Latest Bios
19Inch Compaq MV920 Moniter
SBLive 5.1 Platinum With Live Drive Up to date Drivers From site.
Toshiba 12X DVD
TDK 12X10X32X CDRW
20.5 gig 7200RPM 66 ATA Western Digital Hard Drive
6.4 5400 RPM 33 ATA Western Digital back up
WinTV T.V. Card
Hi Val 56K WinModem... Didnt actually expect to be back on 56K as long as I am...sighs.
Satillite Dish VCR Speakers With SubWoofer.
And Windows 2000> Sp-1> Sp-2

Parents System is as follows:

P3 450
Biostar 440 BX Motherboard With Original Bios
192 Megs Cas 3 Micron Ram at 100mhz
Creative Labs TNT2 Ultra With Latest Bios
AOC 17 Inch 'V7Li I think' Moniter
Sound Blaster PCI 128 Sound Card
MidiLand Speakers W/Sub
Creative Labs DXR2 5x DVD With Decoder Card
13 Gig 5400 RPM 66 ATA Maxtor Hard Drive
100Meg Zip Drive
Scanner Microtek Slim Scan C3
Epson 440 Printer
Lucent 56K Winmodem
Windows 2000> Sp-2

Ex's System is as follows:

P3 500 OC'ed to 550
ASUS P3B-F MotherBoard W/latest Bios
384 Megs Cas 3 Micron Ram at 100mhz
Creative Labs TNT 16 Meg w/latest Bios
17 Inch Moniter Impression 7 Plus
SBLive Original 'not value version' With Win2k Drivers
Toshiba 5X DVD Drive
HP 7200 4X CDRW
45 Gig IBM 5400RPM ATA100 Tied to a Promise 66ATA card
2.3 gig PIO3 Who Knows The RPM Quantum Backup Drive also Tied in to the Promise card.
Mustek 1200 CP Scanner
4300 Canon Printer
US Robotics 56K ISA Real Modem UpGraded to the current standards.
Win98Se Upgraded> Windows 2000> Sp-1> Sp-2

All the drivers For the Video Cards are using the 12.40 drivers. I have since redid my Video Drivers to Both 6.50, 12.10, and 12.40.

Now to note.
The 12.10's and 12.40 Drivers only allow me to go to 85 Hz max thru any setting.

The 6.50's allowed any refresh setting.
I did clear the registry completely when I redid it each time.

Another thing to note is, I can't seem to pull one file out when I redo it and it's this file here.

NVDesk32.dll

It always seems to be under use Safemode or otherwise.

So that maybe the culpert. What I am going to do later is load up the 6.50 file of that name to replace the one there now. and see if I can regain control of the refresh. I'll let you know if it works.

If I missed anything on the list for the above systems, let me know and I'll edit this.

Since Neither of the other two Systems that have older cards is being affected by the drivers. I'd have to guess that its between my card up to yours. Since there both of similar design. and we are both getting similar errors.

Let me know how you would like to proceed with this.
I'll do my best on my end to work thru any idea's you
would like to try.

One other thing I happen to think of is this.
when I tried to run my dad's moniter at 100Hz at 1024x768.
I would then get an error on the moniter basically saying it was too high. I don't know if it is because the driver can't read his moniter or what. Once I cut it back to 85hz it was fine.

James

 

[lhgpoobaa]

nice to get an acknowledgment.
i fiddled over the weekend, still no joy.
i am currently using powerstrip 3beta to force it to use 85hz @ 1024x768, but thats a pain if i switch to a full screen dos box or some other resolution for a game.
often upon returning to windows it doesnt "switch back" but defaults to 60hz YUCK.
actually, looking at the refresh rates allowed maybe i aughta reset my plug and PRAY display drivers as all the refresh rates are that of stock supplied by the monitor.
the monitor is getting on now, and the stock refresh rates suck (like who wants 60,70,72 or 75???)
and it can do much better for long periods of time.

Try that james, refresh your monitor drivers.
ill be back in a day to report on my progress.


"Don't be too proud of this technological terror you have created"~Darth Vader, Star wars