[SOLVED] Windows 10 debloater

[chickenballs]

Awhile ago I asked in the Windows 7 sub-forum if ray tracing in games would work on Win7 and the answer was no as it requires dx12.
So now I am trying to find out if there is a way to remove ALL of the bloatware that come with Windows 10: Cortana, Windows app store etc
There is the Windowsdebloater
https://www.thewindowsclub.com/windows-10-bloatware-windows10debloater

but it doesn't seem to be able to remove Cortana and app store.
Is it because both of them are like integrated into the OS because MS is forcing those on the users like they tried with iExplorer years ago?

There is of course LTSC which you can even download from their website and use for 90 days but what will happen after the trial period?
According to this article: https://www.howtogeek.com/244678/you-dont-need-a-product-key-to-install-and-use-windows-10/
you can legally use Windows 10 without a product key installed but would MS allow their precious LTSC be used without a key?

I only want a legal copy of Windows WITHOUT bloatware
Is it even possible?

 

[Wolfshadw]

I guess the question is why would you want to use LTSC? I'd rather get the updates and have to re-disable the "bloatware" rather than have my OS sit idly for three years or so (even if you could use it).

You can use Windows 10 home (and I think, Pro) without activation for as long as you wish and the only cost is the lack of customization. Whether you can disable Cortana and the App store in Windows without activation, I don't know, but I would guess not.

I only want a legal copy of Windows WITHOUT bloatware
Is it even possible?

I would say no. Purchase a license and you can disable it, but uninstall it? I'd say no.

-Wolf sends

 

[TJ Hooker]

Why exactly do you need to disable this "bloat"? What do you think doing so will achieve?

You can disable Cortana with some registry edits, should be pretty easy to find if you google it.

 

[britechguy]

Why exactly do you need to disable this "bloat"? What do you think doing so will achieve?

You can disable Cortana with some registry edits, should be pretty easy to find if you google it.

Those are the two questions I have never, ever yet seen an adequate answer to. Most of what people classify as "bloat" (e.g. Xbox, Cortana's Personal Digital Assistant, etc.) either lie fallow entirely if not used or can be disabled.

Cortana's PDA feature is easily disabled during Windows 10 install. Since I have yet to meet anyone who wants any OS without a search mechanism, I doubt that there are many who want all Cortana processes to disappear, as they are integral to Windows Search.

Having used Windows since there has been Windows I really don't get what people seem to think is "bloated" about Windows 10. Just going through the system settings, like one has always had to when configuring a new system, allows one to pick and choose an awful lot of what will, and will not, run as part of the normal startup of Windows.

 

[DSzymborski]

Yeah, the term bloatware has had a bit of mission creep. It used to mean all the random software packages that PC makers would stuff into their builds for a small kickback. Cortana/Windows Store are simply parts of Windows, both with real functions, and if you never need to use them there's no real consequence

 

[britechguy]

Yeah, the term bloatware has had a bit of mission creep.

That's a kind way of putting it. The definition has been stretched beyond all reason when it comes to applying it to OS features you (the generic you) don't want or don't care about but that many other users do.

There seems to be a belief that operating systems are supposed to be like bespoke clothing, fitting the user perfectly, rather than like Swiss Army knives, meant to perform a wide array of functions, some better than others, for a wide variety of users and situations. They've always, in actuality, been the latter.

And when you can disable most of the things you don't want, if you take the time to go through all the settings available to an end user, it makes even less sense to complain of bloat. Scope creep, which most OSes have experienced, is a result of advances in technology. That's not bloat in any meaningful sense. Don't need it? - turn it off (if that's even necessary) and don't use it.

 

[chickenballs]

my mistake for asking in a forum occupied by those who are clearly really satisfied with Windows 10

I updated my laptop running win10 Home last November and that didn't go well and forced me to format the ssd and reinstall a previous version and clearly I was not the only one affected:
https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10-october-2018-update-problems-complaints
and now the latest update:

Latest Windows 10 Update Is Now Breaking WiFi for Some Users - Microsoft Puts Compatibility Hold on Version 1903

How to Fix Windows 10 1903 Connectivity Issues - Another Bug Introduced by Latest Update Pushes Microsoft to Put a Compatibility Hold

wccftech.com

dont remember win7 or even XP had those problems
and neither of them have built-in app store
OS for desktop pcs shouldn't come with crap like app store
we already have those on our phones and tablets

 

[Deleted member 14196]

Go use Linux then

 

[Colif]

win 10 out of box is light, its only once it connects to internet and gets apps off the win store that it could be seen as bloated. And you can uninstall them and if you using a user attached to an email address MS have, it will be remembered and not installed again.

The store is there to reduce the footprint of the ISO and allow Microsoft to update things like the calculator or Photo/movie viewer without adding it all onto a cumulative update.

Win 10 can boot with less ram than every OS before it until WIn XP. Its less bloated than 7 is.

You can right click/uninstall most of the built in apps from just the start menu

Win 10 is creating less problems over time, I know its not perfect or I wouldn't have any questions to answer. I am not going to argue that fact. But the number of people with problems after a new version is becoming less and less.

 

[britechguy]

dont remember win7 or even XP had those problems

What's too painful to remember, we simply choose to forget.

 

[TJ Hooker]

my mistake for asking in a forum occupied by those who are clearly really satisfied with Windows 10

I updated my laptop running win10 Home last November and that didn't go well and forced me to format the ssd and reinstall a previous version and clearly I was not the only one affected:
https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10-october-2018-update-problems-complaints
and now the latest update:

Latest Windows 10 Update Is Now Breaking WiFi for Some Users - Microsoft Puts Compatibility Hold on Version 1903

How to Fix Windows 10 1903 Connectivity Issues - Another Bug Introduced by Latest Update Pushes Microsoft to Put a Compatibility Hold

wccftech.com

dont remember win7 or even XP had those problems
and neither of them have built-in app store
OS for desktop pcs shouldn't come with crap like app store
we already have those on our phones and tablets

Bugs and bloat are two different things...

 

[DSzymborski]

my mistake for asking in a forum occupied by those who are clearly really satisfied with Windows 10

I updated my laptop running win10 Home last November and that didn't go well and forced me to format the ssd and reinstall a previous version and clearly I was not the only one affected:
https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10-october-2018-update-problems-complaints
and now the latest update:

Latest Windows 10 Update Is Now Breaking WiFi for Some Users - Microsoft Puts Compatibility Hold on Version 1903

How to Fix Windows 10 1903 Connectivity Issues - Another Bug Introduced by Latest Update Pushes Microsoft to Put a Compatibility Hold

wccftech.com

dont remember win7 or even XP had those problems
and neither of them have built-in app store
OS for desktop pcs shouldn't come with crap like app store
we already have those on our phones and tablets

You're confusing bugs with bloatware. There have been some issues with updates, but they have nothing to do with things like Windows Store.

Why would Windows Store be for phones only? Windows Store only sells Universal Windows Platform apps, which means that PC users are one of the main customers for what the Windows Store sells. This is a bit like arguing that air conditioners should only be sold in Alaska.

In any case, if there are only particular answers you will accept or respect, you can streamline your experience in the future by including the answer you wish to hear along with the question. It would be a real time saver!

 

[King_V]

ALL of the bloatware that come with Windows 10: Cortana, Windows app store etc

That's a very vague definition. Maybe, instead of being snarky later in the thread, you could've specified exactly what YOU define as bloatware, and what makes it bloatware, rather than just assuming everyone can read your mind.

I only want a legal copy of Windows WITHOUT bloatware
Is it even possible?

It is impossible because you haven't defined the parameters of "bloatware." Simply saying "Cortana, Windows App Store, etc" tells us NOTHING about what the "etc" part covers.

 

[Math Geek]

i also feel win 10 is full of bloat and i define it the way it always has been.

all those apps i did not ask for, "features" i did not ask for and the inability to disable most of it. you can uninstall a lot of the built in apps, but many of them can't be without running cli commands. i'm not sure when candy crush became win 10 essential and cortana itself is not needed either.

having to jump through hoops to get rid of stuff i don't want is pretty much the reason the term "bloatware" exists. it does seem a small % of us feel it is full of bloat and wish to trim it down. but on this forum that sentiment seems to be meet with hostility and snarky "Go use Linux then"

every version of windows had unneeded stuff and it has always been subject to folks wanting to trim it down. used to be what many people considered "enthusiast" tinkering. not it seems to mean you need to suck it up an accept that papa MS knows what you need and you should just accept that fact and blindly follow their lead.

to the op, you can get rid of a lot of stuff, but i have not seen it done through a single app yet. some let you remove the bloat apps, while others may let you disable cortana and so on.

win 10 pro is easier to disable a lot of stuff since group policy makes it easier. so if you are gonna use it unactivated may as well go with pro and get the advantage of group policy.

as for services and such you can disable, i like blackviper's site for this type of tested info.

Home - Black Viper | BlackViper.Com

Welcome to my little spot on the internet. My name is Black Viper. Enjoy your stay!

www.blackviper.com

good luck and sadly, you're on your own for a lot of research since as you noticed, it's hard to find people willing to question papa MS's wisdom in what it is gracious enough to bless you with.

 

[britechguy]

exactly what YOU define as bloatware, and what makes it bloatware,

Though that would be very helpful in order to have a fruitful conversation, if there's one to be had, there is a problem, too. Words have generally defined meanings, and an idiosyncratic definition of "bloatware" that includes Cortana and the Windows Store makes the term beyond meaningless.

There have been all sorts of Windows features, long before Windows 10, that I never touch or have touched. Those same features are part of the day-to-day work and lives of many others. Just because I don't use them doesn't make them bloatware as it is generally defined.

Bloatware is not, and has never been, feature creep/expansion.

And complaining about feature creep and expansion, which is part and parcel of all information technology, is what is proverbially referred to as urinating into the wind.

 

[TJ Hooker]

all those apps i did not ask for, "features" i did not ask for and the inability to disable most of it. you can uninstall a lot of the built in apps, but many of them can't be without running cli commands. i'm not sure when candy crush became win 10 essential and cortana itself is not needed either.

having to jump through hoops to get rid of stuff i don't want is pretty much the reason the term "bloatware" exists. it does seem a small % of us feel it is full of bloat and wish to trim it down. but on this forum that sentiment seems to be meet with hostility and snarky "Go use Linux then"

The term bloatware implies a negative performance impact. So not only are they things you don't use, but merely having them there is detrimental. But when I hear people talk about "bloatware" about Win10, it's (almost) always referring to things that have no performance impact and use negligible disk space. Meaning there's no downside to leaving it installed and simply not using it. So calling it "bloatware" is questionable.

If you want to get rid of it simply because you like things to be tidy and minimalist, then by all means go for it. But if someone is trying to jump through a bunch of hoops to remove stuff, I think it's worthwhile making sure they know that doing so is not going to have any impact on performance.

 

[Math Geek]

cortana would be the main thing that does impact performance. most of the start-up hdd maxed out issues are related to cortana, the bulk of the data mining...err i mean..... MS "learning" about you so it can better serve your needs, is directed by cortana. disabling it helps a lot and does not effect the older indexing service that searches local files. that is listed under cortana service but actually is not impacted by disabling cortana. it obviously removes the online searching and other "services" but those are things many of us can do without and would rather not have looking over our shoulders anyway.

i realize hdd space is pretty cheap these days and a couple gb is a drop in the bucket to what most systems have, but i still would rather not have all that stuff installed i don't want. to me it is the same as rooting an android device and removing all the GAPS. they are available in the store if i want them, but otherwise i'd rather not have to have them installed unless i chose to. overall, this is the main concern i see from many people. you can argue what word is used all you want, but in the end, win 10 is not your OS anymore and MS will do whatever it wants with the system it is installed on anytime they wish. nothing to see here citizen, move on now........

i and many others are not happy with this and wish to take back the OS and make it mine again like it was before. but as noted any question related to doing anything with win 10 other than accepting it happily as it is, is met with disdain here now. no clue why but this is clearly the case that i see over and over on this forum.

simply asking how to disable win update since updates are so freaking crappy now and forced on you, quickly gets jumped on and pounded into the dirt as the worst idea ever, when in reality, it is an advertised and meaningful feature of enterprise/server version of win 10. they know the havoc their updates are causing and force them on reg users but allow others to avoid them until the y actually work. that's the same courtesy i would like extended to me as well.

 

[Deleted member 14196]

back in the day there was this
https://www.litepc.com/xplite.html

i used to do that to my xp boxes, problem is, it cripples the OS in some way. not good for even testing software products with! I always regretted that purchase.

 

[Math Geek]

this is the new one for win 10

NTLite

Official NTLite website

www.ntlite.com

same idea of creating a custom installer.

 

[TJ Hooker]

simply asking how to disable win update since updates are so freaking crappy now and forced on you, quickly gets jumped on and pounded into the dirt as the worst idea ever, when in reality, it is an advertised and meaningful feature of enterprise/server version of win 10. they know the havoc their updates are causing and force them on reg users but allow others to avoid them until the y actually work. that's the same courtesy i would like extended to me as well.

Pretty sure the feature you're thinking of is either to delay 'feature' updates (not security updates), and/or to allow updates to be managed by your sys admin rather than automatically being installed on PCs as the updates come out. Neither of these is even remotely the same as a home user simply disabling windows update altogether.

The fact is outright disabling Windows Update is a bad idea for 99% of users.

 

[Deleted member 14196]

this is the new one for win 10

NTLite

Official NTLite website

www.ntlite.com

same idea of creating a custom installer.

well, then the OP can use that tool. however, removing components can have unintentional side affects, as I soon learned.

EDIT. that tool is way more comprehensive than the last... don't make me want to try it... lol

 

[britechguy]

it is an advertised and meaningful feature of enterprise/server version of win 10. they know the havoc their updates are causing and force them on reg users but allow others to avoid them until the y actually work. that's the same courtesy i would like extended to me as well.

The amount of customizations that many enterprises make, and the fact that they have full-time techs working on all of this, make them a very distinctive environment. An environment that has about as much to do with the Windows 10 ecosystem your average Home or Pro user has as Linux utilities do.

Most end users, perhaps not you, but operating system maintenance, just like the OS itself, is not and never has been about you, but about the target demographics that will use it, have not a clue as to what they should or should not apply and/or remove. I saw what "listening to Uncle Jerry" about not applying updates and/or removing things did to a huge number of systems over the years, as I was called in to try to recover from the disasters.

The Windows 10 automatic update system is light years better for the vast majority of users. That's what counts.

The fact is outright disabling Windows Update is a bad idea for 99% of users.

Yep.

 

[Math Geek]

well, then the OP can use that tool. however, removing components can have unintentional side affects, as I soon learned.

EDIT. that tool is way more comprehensive than the last... don't make me want to try it... lol

yah it is very in depth and though it allows for a lot of box checking, it is very easy to create an iso that will fail to install or simply crash the first time it is booted up. i think the complexity has risen with the amount of features available now and all the cross dependencies that were not there before. using blackviper's lists is a good start to tinker with the program but there is a learning curve for sure and i've been doing such things since win xp!!

 

[Deleted member 14196]

yeah, for truly small OS, I would go with Lubuntu or something, easy to use/config, looks like XP, easy for most...

 

[chickenballs]

i also feel win 10 is full of bloat and i define it the way it always has been.

all those apps i did not ask for, "features" i did not ask for and the inability to disable most of it. you can uninstall a lot of the built in apps, but many of them can't be without running cli commands. i'm not sure when candy crush became win 10 essential and cortana itself is not needed either.

having to jump through hoops to get rid of stuff i don't want is pretty much the reason the term "bloatware" exists. it does seem a small % of us feel it is full of bloat and wish to trim it down. but on this forum that sentiment seems to be meet with hostility and snarky "Go use Linux then"

every version of windows had unneeded stuff and it has always been subject to folks wanting to trim it down. used to be what many people considered "enthusiast" tinkering. not it seems to mean you need to suck it up an accept that papa MS knows what you need and you should just accept that fact and blindly follow their lead.

to the op, you can get rid of a lot of stuff, but i have not seen it done through a single app yet. some let you remove the bloat apps, while others may let you disable cortana and so on.

win 10 pro is easier to disable a lot of stuff since group policy makes it easier. so if you are gonna use it unactivated may as well go with pro and get the advantage of group policy.

as for services and such you can disable, i like blackviper's site for this type of tested info.

Home - Black Viper | BlackViper.Com

Welcome to my little spot on the internet. My name is Black Viper. Enjoy your stay!

www.blackviper.com

good luck and sadly, you're on your own for a lot of research since as you noticed, it's hard to find people willing to question papa MS's wisdom in what it is gracious enough to bless you with.

Thank you for the advice and explanation on some of the new "features" in Win10.

I do agree that every windows has unneeded features but to me, who have been using Windows since mid 1990s from Win 3.1 to Windows 10 Home, the latest Windows is just so far from what I used to and just annoying and too cellphone/tablet like. Well worse than Android phones as I was able to root my Android phone awhile ago and remove the app store...

I was able to disable/hide or remove many features and made the desktop and start menu look more Win7-like on a Windows 10 laptop that I occasionally use but some of the features reappeared/reactivated after installing an update which is the reason why I am looking for a Windows 10 version which doesn't have those features in the first place that I will be able to use on my gaming PC which currently is running on Windows 7.
As I planning on getting a RTX gpu later this year which will force me to get win10 because of dx12 which is needed for ray tracing.
Well I am glad that Win10 Pro at least let the users take somewhat more control of their OS.

I think most of those who are very satisfied with Windows 10 could be running it on a laptop and are kinda like those Mac-users who never use their computers for more demanding tasks like running triple A games or stitching dozens of high mega pixel raw images

Also is it even possible to run the latest games on Linux?

Why would Windows Store be for phones only? Windows Store only sells Universal Windows Platform apps, which means that PC users are one of the main customers for what the Windows Store sells. This is a bit like arguing that air conditioners should only be sold in Alaska.

In any case, if there are only particular answers you will accept or respect, you can streamline your experience in the future by including the answer you wish to hear along with the question. It would be a real time saver!

Since when does every Windows user need an app store?
It was no present in the previous windows

I hope this article is correct in its claim that the UWP is dead
https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/30/...indows-app-dead-microsoft-store-windows-store

 

[King_V]

Also is it even possible to run the latest games on Linux?

I have only the barest experience with it, but a friend of mine at work uses Proton (Steam client setting for Linux) that is supposed to run native Windows games. Some work, some don't, but apparently it's pretty good overall. I'm sure there's a list somewhere of what Steam games are known to work with it, but it is still something you have to explicitly opt-in for when you run Steam on Linux.

I wish I could offer more info, but I've literally tried two games with it:
BroForce (works fine)
Pinball Arcade (I couldn't get it to work, but supposedly if you get a particular config file from a Windows install of it, it'll work in DX9 mode, but not DX11 mode. Haven't tried that yet)