[SOLVED] Windows causing crashes, reverting to last version fixed it, but what now?

[Savage One]

Hi, after the recent Windows 11 update on Feb 10th my pc has been locking up and requiring a hard reset to get going again. After 3 days of troubleshooting, I rolled back to the previous version and it seems to have fixed it.

My question is what am I supposed to do moving forward? I have to update windows eventually and can't stay on this version forever?

 

[Unolocogringo]

Go back to windows 10 and quit being a "Beta Tester" for Windows 11.
All new OSs have had early problems.
Usually takes a year or more for them to become stable enough for critical deployment.

 

[Savage One]

Go back to windows 10 and quit being a "Beta Tester" for Windows 11.
All new OSs have had early problems.
Usually takes a year or more for them to become stable enough for critical deployment.

Well windows 11 isn't in Beta, but I'm sure you know that and are just being facetious. I'm not wiping my data to go back to 10, and I frankly have preferred 11 since making the switch. So please, if you aren't going to give actual advice, just don't say anything to me.

 

[Colif]

KB5010386
currently no know issues - https://support.microsoft.com/en-au...2000-493-3c018e73-a58a-4fca-be69-8a93dd6fedbd

what are specs of the PC?
updated drivers/bios?

 

[Savage One]

KB5010386
currently no know issues - https://support.microsoft.com/en-au...2000-493-3c018e73-a58a-4fca-be69-8a93dd6fedbd

what are specs of the PC?
updated drivers/bios?

Spec would be:
GPU: 3080 FE
CPU: i9 10900k
MB: MSI Z490 Unify
RAM: 32GB 3600MHz Patriot Viper
PSU: NZXT c850, 850watt
Drives: 1TB WD blue, 500GB Samsung Evo, 256GB Kingston (boot)

Funny thing about the drivers and BIOS, I actually updated my BIOS the same day as I did the update, as I had been putting it off and figured I'd use the down time to go ahead and get it over with. I was considering that it could have been the cause, but I figured reverting the windows update would be quicker to test, and it turned out to be the (or at least a) solution. Part of my troubleshooting did involve updating my drivers though, GPU drivers I always keep up to date, so I began with audio drivers as I recently switched from a USB headset to one that uses a jack. Disabled the Nvidia audio drivers as well, in case the realtek drivers and Nvidia audio drivers weren't getting along. I did the windows update then updated the BIOS since any shutdown or restart would have initiated the windows update regardless.

I did try troubleshooting windows and some other things as well. Used DISM and sfc /scannow to check for windows, I did check disk and made sure my drives were healthy, I did the windows memory test which passed, but here is a kicker. The crash was a complete lockup of my system and was the same every time, event viewer never gave any errors besides the unexpected shutdown as I had to kill the power to the PC every time essentially.. BUT one single crash did happen where I got a BSOD which gave the error code of "CLOCK_WATCHDOG_TIMEOUT" which upon looking into could indicate everything from RAM to CPU to drivers and windows misbehaving. This is why I did the RAM test, it also reinforced the fact that I was concerned about it being hardware related as the crashes were more common when the system was under load, but still would crash when essentially idle as well.

However, most of my hardware except my drives are brand new, as in less than a year of use. Going back a version on windows was immediately noticeable as a solution as my system would go at most 2 hours before freezing again, now it's been over 2 days with no problems. Sometimes the crashes were less than 5-10 minutes apart as well.

Also the version I turned back to is KB5009566, seems I went back quite a bit more than I intended, however, the crashes began the day of the update.

 

[Colif]

I did the windows memory test which passed,

Try running memtest86 on each of your ram sticks, one stick at a time, up to 4 passes. Only error count you want is 0, any higher could be cause of the error. Remove/replace ram sticks with errors.
Memtest is created as a bootable USB so that you don’t need windows to run it, just make it.

Most months Windows update only gets 1 update a month, last month they had 2.
KB5008353 added a bunch of fixes
also one updated .net.

 

[Savage One]

Try running memtest86 on each of your ram sticks, one stick at a time, up to 4 passes. Only error count you want is 0, any higher could be cause of the error. Remove/replace ram sticks with errors.
Memtest is created as a bootable USB so that you don’t need windows to run it, just make it.

Most months Windows update only gets 1 update a month, last month they had 2.
KB5008353 added a bunch of fixes
also one updated .net.

I couldn't REALLY afford so much downtime, and seeing as how long these took I left the 2 sticks in. I had spare just in case there was an error, and I could figure out which was the problem later when I had more time. Luckily, no errors on 4 passes.

 

[Colif]

Why not just pause updates for a month and see if the March Cumulative Update is any better.
Itss on settings/windows update front page, 1st option in list (funny thing, I missed it there and then was wondering where it was)

 

[Savage One]

Why not just pause updates for a month and see if the March Cumulative Update is any better.
Itss on settings/windows update front page, 1st option in list (funny thing, I missed it there and then was wondering where it was)

Yeah I'll do that, if problems persist I guess I'll do more troubleshooting. I will say though, I just went to pause windows update and it had queued to reinstall the old version of the audio drivers that I had updated when troubleshooting. Updating them didn't fix the problem, but it makes me wonder if it did reinstall any other old drivers that I had updated, is there a wat to block windows from "updating" drivers? At least specific ones that I know are the latest?

 

[Savage One]

LESSON learned : NEVER DO 2 THINGS AT ONCE! Even if something happens you don't even know which of the two could be the cause. (same thing applied when coming to changing settings.)



if there are some issues with RAM, BIOS, hardware drivers or third-party software, it could also lead to the Watchdog Timer error.

To uninstall a recently installed program, you can press Windows key + R key together on the keyboard to bring up the Run dialog box, and then input appwiz.cpl and hit Enter. Then you can view all the programs installed on the PC. Find the software you want to uninstall and right-click it to select Uninstall.

Yes, I think perhaps the watchdog error was an outlier, it may give some indication as to what was causing my crashes, but I'm unsure. My system has been rock solid for about 10 months then it all happened at once. 5 days now, no problems since going back to an older windows. Lesson was learning indeed. If any more BSODs with watchdog I'll comb back through my drivers before doing something drastic again, but I suspect it may have been a side effect from the constant freezing, perhaps that's wishful thinking though. Thanks for the advice though.

 

[Savage One]

Any recent hardware change? it could be any, a printer, a new ram, a new wireless LAN card?? anything?

Nope, the ONLY thing hardware wise would be that I switched from a USB headset to one that uses the headphone jack. Utilizing different drivers that way I believe, but I updated them and even switched between the front panel audio and the motherboards built in jack, neither made the problem go away. Not to mention I had been using the headset maybe a week and a half before the crashing began. Would crash several times an hour once it began, reverted windows and not one crash in almost a week.

 

[Savage One]

Why not just pause updates for a month and see if the March Cumulative Update is any better.
Itss on settings/windows update front page, 1st option in list (funny thing, I missed it there and then was wondering where it was)

I just had another crash, still on the same version I reverted to. I downloaded an EQ software for my headset yesterday, makes me think that perhaps there is something going on with my audio drivers. I mentioned that I downloaded the latest Realtek drivers from my motherboard manufacturers driver page, and but windows keeps queueing install for an older version of those drivers nonetheless. Any ideas?

 

[Colif]

Are these crashes BSOD?
if so
Can you follow option one on the following link - here - and then do this step below: Small memory dumps - Have Windows Create a Small Memory Dump (Minidump) on BSOD - that creates a file in c windows/minidump after the next BSOD

1. Open Windows File Explore
   
2. Navigate to C:\Windows\Minidump
   
3. Copy the mini-dump files out onto your Desktop
   
4. Do not use Winzip, use the built in facility in Windows
   
5. Select those files on your Desktop, right click them and choose 'Send to' - Compressed (zipped) folder
   
6. Upload the zip file to the Cloud (OneDrive, DropBox . . . etc.)
   
7. Then post a link here to the zip file, so we can take a look for you . . .
   

you can stop windows updating a specific driver this way - https://www.itechtics.com/disable-specific-driver-update/
if you edit registry, back it up first - https://neosmart.net/wiki/backup-restore-registry/

 

[Colif]

there is a new Cumulative update, https://support.microsoft.com/en-au...-preview-73e259d0-45ca-45ef-960f-426035104e73

It appears to fix a a lot of things.

not sure I like this much, what about those of us who move start menu?

New! Adds weather content to the left side of the taskbar if the taskbar is aligned in the center. When you hover over the weather, the Widgets panel will appear on the left side of the screen and will disappear when you stop hovering over the area.

if you install it and it shuts down and seems to sit on 0% for too long, that appears to be normal as it did it to me and I was almost tempted to restart PC and that would have been a bad idea. So just wait if it takes a while

 

[orlbuckeye]

Hi, after the recent Windows 11 update on Feb 10th my pc has been locking up and requiring a hard reset to get going again. After 3 days of troubleshooting, I rolled back to the previous version and it seems to have fixed it.

My question is what am I supposed to do moving forward? I have to update windows eventually and can't stay on this version forever?

Well I would report it to Microsoft so they can look at it. That means once the they have the fix implemented yo will be able to move forward. I count be a driver issue to see if you have any driver updates from the OEM.

 

[Savage One]

Are these crashes BSOD?
if so
Can you follow option one on the following link - here - and then do this step below: Small memory dumps - Have Windows Create a Small Memory Dump (Minidump) on BSOD - that creates a file in c windows/minidump after the next BSOD

1. Open Windows File Explore
2. Navigate to C:\Windows\Minidump
3. Copy the mini-dump files out onto your Desktop
4. Do not use Winzip, use the built in facility in Windows
5. Select those files on your Desktop, right click them and choose 'Send to' - Compressed (zipped) folder
6. Upload the zip file to the Cloud (OneDrive, DropBox . . . etc.)
7. Then post a link here to the zip file, so we can take a look for you . . .

you can stop windows updating a specific driver this way - https://www.itechtics.com/disable-specific-driver-update/
if you edit registry, back it up first - https://neosmart.net/wiki/backup-restore-registry/

No, that only happened once, it just froze and required a hard reset to get going again. I guess I should make sure I differentiate the two in the future.

 

[Savage One]

Well I would report it to Microsoft so they can look at it. That means once the they have the fix implemented yo will be able to move forward. I count be a driver issue to see if you have any driver updates from the OEM.

I'm going to reupdate and see how it does, since Colif mentioned the cumulative update, it may be good. If things still aren't great I'll be going through my drivers again.

 

[Colif]

Hard freeze is odd, as that isn't what windows does. If it was a windows crash you would have got a BSOD. Freezing makes me think its hardware.

I would run this on CPU (won't take long) - https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/download/15951/19792/intel-processor-diagnostic-tool.html?

latest bios on motherboard?

 

[Savage One]

Hard freeze is odd, as that isn't what windows does. If it was a windows crash you would have got a BSOD. Freezing makes me think its hardware.

I would run this on CPU (won't take long) - https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/download/15951/19792/intel-processor-diagnostic-tool.html?

latest bios on motherboard?

Yes, latest BIOS, like I said I updated it the same day as the windows update. The new cumulative hasn't frozen yet, but we'll see. I'll run that diagnostic and get back.

 

[Savage One]

Hard freeze is odd, as that isn't what windows does. If it was a windows crash you would have got a BSOD. Freezing makes me think its hardware.

I would run this on CPU (won't take long) - https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/download/15951/19792/intel-processor-diagnostic-tool.html?

latest bios on motherboard?

Okay, I got a BSOD, code was "page_fault_in_unpaged_area". I collected the dmp file but I've always found file sharing to be very over engineered, but I tried drop box.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/022q23vcs2ot4b0/021622-24953-01.zip?dl=0

There's the link, I think it will work and you should have access to it, again, I'm not totally sure that you will, but here's hoping.

 

[Colif]

I have to ask a friend to check dumps, he should be asleep right now. So it will be a while.
page fault in non paged area - normally a driver error. non paged area of ram is where drivers run.

 

[Savage One]

I have to ask a friend to check dumps, he should be asleep right now. So it will be a while.
page fault in non paged area - normally a driver error. non paged area of ram is where drivers run.

All good, thanks for the help. If I were to guess, I'd suspect audio drivers would be the culprit. Got these new headphones a couple of days before I had my first freeze, I didn't use my PC much until the day I got the first freeze. As I said earlier it seems more frequent under load, which would make me doubt audio drivers, but then again I'm no expert on drivers. Was having an issue where I'd install the drivers from the MOBO website and upon restarting windows would reinstall a different version. I managed to keep windows from doing it, but even then the freezing continued. Reverting windows DID make the freezing far less frequent, as in once in the past three days instead of every couple of hours at best. Still haven't froze with the new update thankfully, but I did get the BSOD during the CPU diagnostics.

 

[gardenman]

Hi, I ran the dump file through the debugger and got the following information: https://jsfiddle.net/L5hso0j2/show This link is for anyone wanting to help. You do not have to view it. It is safe to "run the fiddle" as the page asks.

File information:	021622-24953-01.dmp (Feb 16 2022 - 22:00:36)
Bugcheck:	PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA (50)
Probably caused by:	memory_corruption (Process running at time of crash: WmiPrvSE.exe)
Uptime:	0 Day(s), 5 Hour(s), 39 Min(s), and 12 Sec(s)

The following overclocking drivers were found on your system:

• "RTCore64.sys" (MSI Afterburner)
• "NTIOLib_X64.sys" (MSI Afterburner or other MSI software)
• "IOCBios2.sys" (Intel Extreme Tuning Utility)

Possible Motherboard page:
https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MEG-Z490-UNIFY

This information can be used by others to help you. Someone else will post with more information. Please wait for additional answers. Good luck.

 

[Colif]

so the process running at time of crash is responsible for error reporting in windows... strange thing to crash.

right click start button
choose Windows Terminal (admin)
if it opens as command prompt, cliuck the arrow in title row and select Powershell
copy/paste this command into window:

Repair-WindowsImage -Online -RestoreHealth and press enter

Then type SFC /scannow and press enter

First command repairs the files SFC uses to clean files, and SFC fixes system files

that just checks windows.

Got these new headphones a couple of days before I had my first freeze, I didn't use my PC much until the day I got the first freeze.

do headphones use USB or audio jacks? what brand headphones?

Oct 26 2021

RTKVHD64.sys

Realtek Audio System driver https://www.realtek.com/en/

these aren't that old.

What do you use Icue for?

 

[Savage One]

so the process running at time of crash is responsible for error reporting in windows... strange thing to crash.

right click start button
choose Windows Terminal (admin)
if it opens as command prompt, cliuck the arrow in title row and select Powershell
copy/paste this command into window:

Repair-WindowsImage -Online -RestoreHealth and press enter

Then type SFC /scannow and press enter

First command repairs the files SFC uses to clean files, and SFC fixes system files

that just checks windows.


do headphones use USB or audio jacks? what brand headphones?

Oct 26 2021

RTKVHD64.sys

Realtek Audio System driver https://www.realtek.com/en/

these aren't that old.

What do you use Icue for?

I used the commands you provided, restore health just said healthy image state, SFC found no integrity violations.

The new headset uses a jack, Sennheiser HD 560s. The old was a Corsair Void Pro, which was wireless/USB. I used Icue for said Corsair headset. I meant to uninstall Icue, but I disabled it at startup and forgot that it was on my system honestly.

I got my audio drivers from here: https://us.msi.com/Motherboard/MEG-Z490-UNIFY/support#down-driver&Win11 64 I go Driver> Win11 64 > on-board Audio Driver

I honestly am partially clueless when it comes to drivers, I'll give some examples to my confusion.

Here: https://gyazo.com/a349f80e2c786260d2a36b5ac7f19f2a I don't know the difference between these two in the sense that I don't know if they use different drivers, it all looks the same to me. The left, "speakers" are the jack on the back of my motherboard, the right "digital output" is the front panel audio jack, I'm currently using the left as it's higher quality.

Secondly, when I installed the driver from the website I showed you, the "driver version" never changed here on properties for either of them, which further confused me.