Question Windows Licensing?

[Misgar]

I was surprised to see a recent editorial on Tom's which appears to condone software piracy:
https://forums.tomshardware.com/forums/windows-11.84/post-thread

A link is provided to a web site selling activation keys to unlock Windows 11 for as little as $11.97.

According to Ed Bott's editorial on Zdnet (see link below), super cheap 25-character Product Activation keys often come from Volume License or Educational packs, split up amongst tens or hundreds of unsuspecting punters. As such, although these keys unlock Windows, they do not constitute a legitimate license to use Windows.
https://www.zdnet.com/article/is-your-windows-license-legal-should-you-even-care/

As Ed says in his article:
"...if someone offers you a Windows Pro license for $29 or $49 or even $69, they're not legit. As the saying goes, if a deal sounds too good to be true, it almost certainly is."

Tom's article states there's a small chance your $12 key won't work. The reason is Microsoft may have detected large numbers of people using the same activation key, which exceed the number of users on the original license.

I appreciate many people cannot afford to buy a legal copy of Windows from a reputable source, but I cannot understand why they spend £12 on a potentially unlicensed copy, when they could use Microsoft's generic keys and run a highly illegal patch. Why pay $12 when you can get Windows absolutely free?

When I upgraded a laptop from Windows Home to Windows Professional, I purchased a license for £49.99 (US $65.60)
https://store.pcpro.co.uk/p44294-windows_11_professional_upgrade

If I need a full OEM license for a home computer, the price is £79.99 (US $104.95)
https://store.pcpro.co.uk/p43910-windows_11_professional

I am reasonably confident these software packages are legitimate, but of course I cannot be 100% sure.

The question you need to ask is "Do I trust someone selling really cheap activation keys with my credit card info?"

Discuss.

 

[USAFRet]

The question you need to ask is "Do I trust someone selling really cheap activation keys with my credit card info?"

I wouldn't.

 

[Rokinamerica]

Paypal

 

[Wolfshadw]

Would you purchase an advertised as new RTX 4070Ti for $200? Anyone offering a license for significantly less is not selling a legitimate license and is almost certainly circumventing the licensing agreement with Microsoft.

Part of the cost of building a computer from scratch is the cost of the (legitimate) Windows license. People need to keep that in mind when they decide on the budget for a new computer. It costs what it costs.

-Wolf sends

 

[USAFRet]

Consider:

Current AAA games are $50-$60. People have no issue buying 2,3,4 of these a year.

A valid Win 10/11 Home license is maybe $100. And will last a decade or more, usable over the next several systems and versions.

 

[Wolfshadw]

I was surprised to see a recent editorial on Tom's which appears to condone software piracy:

Also note that Tom's Hardware Editorial (the source of the article in question) and the Tom's Hardware Forums are two completely separate entities. We have ZERO control over what they decide to publish. We just have to put out the on-coming dumpster fires.

-Wolf sends

 

[Roland Of Gilead]

This is often misrepresented.

I don't think Tom's are condoning any illegal actions. They have simply pointed out that there are other ways to obtain legal Windows licences. https://www.tomshardware.com/software/windows/windows-11-free-or-cheap

In the article above, I'm not sure if Avram (the author) is suggesting that he personally has availed of 3rd party seller keys, or Tom's as a whole.

Either way, these keys for the most part, are legitimate. The likes of 3rd party sellers, like Kinguin, G2A among others, purchase unused keys direct from OEMs as they may not use the number of activations they have. This is just another form to generate revenue. Makes sense to me at least. As for the legality of that, that's prob between MS and the OEM.

Quote:

'Now, let's address the elephant in the room. While we can't vouch for all of them, websites selling cheap Windows 11 keys are likely offering legitimate codes. Kinguin has more than three dozen merchants worldwide selling Windows keys. Mark Jordan, Kinguin’s VP of communications, told Tom's Hardware in 2019 that Kinguin's merchants acquire the codes from wholesalers who have surplus copies of Windows they don't need.

"It's not a gray market. It would be like buying Adidas or Puma or Nike from a discounter, from TJ Maxx," Jordan said. "There are no legal issues with buying it from us. It's just another marketplace."'

Is this not plausible?

Edit: Just to be clear. I've never availed of 3rd party keys, and I do not condone any form of piracy in whatever guise.

 

[USAFRet]

"It's not a gray market. It would be like buying Adidas or Puma or Nike from a discounter, from TJ Maxx," Jordan said. "There are no legal issues with buying it from us. It's just another marketplace."'

Is this not plausible?

The question remains....where did these licenses come from originally?

There is only one entity that actually generates valid licenses. Microsoft.

Some are designated for resale, some are not.

 

[Roland Of Gilead]

Current AAA games are $50-$60. People have no issue buying 2,3,4 of these a year.

I don't know many that buy so much any more. Things like Xbox Game Pass make playing AAA just a matter of a subscription. There are alternative ways to achieve the same goal.

 

[USAFRet]

I don't know many that buy so much any more. Things like Xbox Game Pass make playing AAA just a matter of a subscription. There are alternative ways to achieve the same goal.

And that subscription costs....?

 

[Roland Of Gilead]

The question remains....where did these licenses come from originally?

There is only one entity that actually generates valid licenses. Microsoft.

Some are designated for resale, some are not.

Well, the article does explain part of this. Now, I'm not gonna say for one minute that we should trust the opinion of a VP of any company, who 'may 'be making money, and so anything they say will be biased.

But like you've said, some are designated for resale. I have no idea of licencing laws in the US, so I'm not gonna make out the right or wrong, but again, I'd say it's well within the realms of possibility that an OEM agrees with MS to unload some licences they don't use to 3rd party sellers. Groupon do this with all sorts of items/devices etc etc.

I'm only saying it's not uncommon.

 

[punkncat]

Paypal

I would point out that there was a recent change where at least a couple of these type sites quit accepting PayPal, or more likely that PP refused to be an option.



As the subject of this article, I am 110% with OP in regards as to why TH would condone such activity.

I have utilized those type sites before but will not put myself in the jeopardy to use a site like that and sell the PC on. I have often sold PC with the 'watermark' and disclosed that it needed a license/activation. I also keep in touch with what is going on with sites such as that just as a heads up to myself. Even the old eBay key trick are churning out bad keys right now.
The only disturbing aspect of the current landscape on licensing (aside from price) has to do with MS de-activating W10-11 upgrade installs. I have had it happen recently as have other forum users. In particular this can coincide with a minor change in hardware.

 

[Roland Of Gilead]

And that subscription costs....?

€9.99 Per month.

However, that gives me access to many games on day 1 release. I can try them out, and if I don't like it, I uninstall it.

I also get to try out a lot of games, that I wouldn't ordinarily. This is actually the biggest plus for me. I get to broaden my gaming world horizon. The sub suits me. I don't have the luxury of splashing out on a 50-70€ for a game that I may not like, not weekly or monthly. But a sub of €10 is more within my means, and provides many more options.

 

[lantis3]

Those sites already exist for so many years, what I suspect is that if those cd keys are illegal ones, why wouldn't MS take actions against them? Even the mini PC sold on Amazon that costs just over $100 comes with legit OEM license.

 

[USAFRet]

€9.99 Per month.

However, that gives me access to many games on day 1 release. I can try them out, and if I don't like it, I uninstall it.

I also get to try out a lot of games, that I wouldn't ordinarily. This is actually the biggest plus for me. I get to broaden my gaming world horizon. The sub suits me. I don't have the luxury of splashing out on a 50-70€ for a game that I may not like, not weekly or monthly. But a sub of €10 is more within my means, and provides many more options.

Right.
$10/month.
$120/year.

Potentially 10x as much as a single OS purchase.

 

[Roland Of Gilead]

Right.
$10/month.
$120/year.

Potentially 10x as much as a single OS purchase.

Hmmm. I'm not sure what point you are trying to convey!?

If it's that I spend 120 per year, where I get many options and flexibility as I've described, but you don't feel that's value, then okay. Fine. That's your opinion.

But I'd rather that, than paying lets say 4 x 50-60 as you've described above in your post, which equates to €200-240 per annum. That's 4 games. I can choose from many more than that, and still be able to try out AAA day 1 releases.a as and when they come out. For me, there's value in that.

 

[USAFRet]

Hmmm. I'm not sure what point you are trying to convey!?

If it's that I spend 120 per year, where I get many options and flexibility as I've described, but you don't feel that's value, then okay. Fine. That's your opinion.

But I'd rather that, than paying lets say 4 x 50-60 as you've described above in your post, which equates to €200-240 per annum. That's 4 games. I can choose from many more than that, and still be able to try out AAA day 1 releases. For me, there's value in that.

No, paying that subscription is just fine. Good value if you're into games.

My only point was that people have no problem paying that, but yet balk at a payment of $100 for the OS, once a decade.

 

[Roland Of Gilead]

Admittedly, this still seems like a grey area in terms of licencing. I would err on the side of caution for any users considering 3rd party vendors. Doing things the right way, is the way to go. Until the legality of these sites is truly definable, we should all be cautious use them. Also, in terms of data security (of the user).

 

[Misgar]

if those cd keys are illegal ones, why wouldn't MS take actions against them?

Microsoft does occasionally take action against third party resellers:
https://www.geekwire.com/2018/microsoft-sues-prolific-distributor-pirated-office-windows-software/

The keys are legal (not illegal), provided they are used by the original purchaser, but a resold key does not always consitute a license to use the product.

Regarding Volume Licenses, I found this quote after a brief search:
https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/50462/is-resale-of-windows-10-keys-legal/50474#50474
If someone purports to resell one of Microsoft's volume-license keys, that is probably a violation of their agreement with Microsoft (volume-license keys are not normally sold to consumers), and it is likely to infringe copyright in some way as well (volume-license keys can be used to activate more than one copy of Windows, and are normally used by large organizations to simplify IT operations - since the same key can authorize multiple activations, it might violate the exclusive right of reproduction).

In another (lengthy) article from Ed Bott regarding cheap $50 Microsoft Office deals:
https://edbott.substack.com/p/are-those-50-lifetime-license-deals
Microsoft can revoke your activation rights at any time. Do you feel lucky? It’s possible these products will work forever. Microsoft might decide that it’s not worth cracking down on small-fry customers who bought a product in good faith. But they can revoke those keys and have been known to do so, sometimes months after they were originally activated.

When I installed Windows + Office for a small company some time ago, they purchased a 50-seat Volume License. The terms of their contract with Microsoft allowed them to run up to 50 more installations if business improved and they took on more staff, but at the end of the 1-year term, they were supposed to inform Microsoft and pay for the extra seats.

On the other hand, a British reseller was threatening to take Microsoft to court in 2021:
https://www.silicon.co.uk/e-regulat...sues-microsoft-over-pre-owned-licences-391648
British software reseller ValueLicensing alleges Microsoft is abusing its power over second hand software licences, and sues Redmond in High Court for £270M.

The law regarding licensing is a mine field and keeps changing. Regardless of who's right or wrong, there's a slight chance Microsoft could revoke your super cheap activation key at any time, but you can buy another key, even if it doesn't necessarily constitute a licensed copy, held in your name.

 

[Roland Of Gilead]

No, paying that subscription is just fine. Good value if you're into games.

My only point was that people have no problem paying that, but yet balk at a payment of $100 for the OS, once a decade.

Ah, yes, I get ya. Yes, very true.

 

[punkncat]

On very fuzzy memory I recall an article about W10 licensing a while back where there was a bit of "fluff" as it were about grey market keys. Apparently, at the time it was pointed out that pretty much every Windows user in China was using a pirated key but that US and UK users had to pay full license fee. In the face of that there was a period of time where MS didn't actively go after pirate keys as a result of the above said. One could only guess that MS was more concerned with the data metrics than the license fee.

IDK why they seem to have changed position on W11.

 

[ubuysa]

I appreciate many people cannot afford to buy a legal copy of Windows from a reputable source, but I cannot understand why they spend £12 on a potentially unlicensed copy, when they could use Microsoft's generic keys and run a highly illegal patch. Why pay $12 when you can get Windows absolutely free?

I don't appreciate that "many people cannot afford to buy a legal copy of Windows". It's required, just as much as PSU is required. If you can't afford a Windows license then run Linux. A license is one of those things, like car insurance, that doesn't make things run any better but it's one of those things that you have to have if you want to run Windows. I will not assist those who do not have a valid license for Windows.

 

[Misgar]

"... like car insurance, that doesn't make things run any better but it's one of those things that you have to have ..."

It all depends where you live.

Each year I pay road fund license (car tax), car insurance and $65 for an MOT test. I have a valid driving license with no points, but thousands of people are prosecuted each year when caught driving on a revoked driving license, or for not paying car tax, insurance or MOT.

On some of my vacations, I doubt if many of the local drivers are insured, plus many imported cars have no plates, front or rear (untaxed). If you have a minor shunt, you settle things on the spot without involving the police. For more serious accidents, you could end up in jail.

It's required, just as much as PSU is required.

A computer won't work without a PSU, but it still functions (illegally) even if you don't have a valid Windows license. Similarly, you need petrol, diesel, CNG or a charged battery to drive a car, but it doesn't grind to halt if you don't have car insurance.

Many people in this world don't have an appropriate license to run Windows (or car insurance) but they away with it Scot-free.

I will not assist those who do not have a valid license for Windows.

As I said in my original post, I'm surprised that Tom's publishes articles encouraging people to buy $12 Windows activation keys, which might come from Volume License or Education packs and hence flout Microsoft's Terms and Conditions.

The author states "The good news is that you can get Windows 11 Home or Pro for free (with small caveats) or for as little as $12".
https://www.tomshardware.com/software/windows/windows-11-free-or-cheap

Section 2 in the article describes in great detail how to activate Windows with one of these cheap keys, but nowhere does it state the need for the correct License type. You have no idea where these keys originated, or what License type applies. On its own, an unlock key is not a license to use.

For computers constructed at home, purchasing an OEM License with a unique Activation Key is valid, but a single Activation Key split from a Volume License, then resold to hundreds of people does not constitute a valid license.

These cheap Activation Keys were probably created by Microsoft, but if they came from a Volume License instead of an OEM License, unsuspecting users may not have a legitimate copy of Windows on their home computers.

Buying a $12 Activation Key is a bit like buying a BMW car key cheap from a guy in a bar. Sure, the key unlocks the car outside and starts the engine, but do you honestly think you're the legal owner of the 'pink slip' (or Windows License)?

It would be interesting to hear of anyone with one of these $12 activation keys who has the nerve to phone Microsoft and ask if they've been scammed into buying an inappropriate license. Tough luck if Microsoft says yes and revokes their key.

Any thoughts welcome.

 

[ubuysa]

If in doubt ask the user to issue the slmgr /dlv command and post a screenshot of the window that opens. You can see the licensing channel on there.

 

[onespeedbiker]

I'm thinking the percentage of its profit MS gets from selling retail copies of Windows is pretty small; it my understanding they make more from cloud services and selling customer info and advertising. Between commercial/business sales and sales to manufacturers of pre built PCs/laptops, the number of people that build (or buy built ) high end custom game computers usually don't balk at a $100 licences, so you are left with a minority that for some reason could not get a license. The point being even if someone is technically violating a Windows licensing agreement by selling unused bulk licences, those licenses were still paid for. MS continues to fight an onslaught by world governments due to their market share monopoly, so it probably is not a good look to generate a lot of press going after what are usually low end private computer users trying to get a deal on a Windows OS license when MS gives millions of them away for free anyway.