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Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.tech,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)
fj <jelenko@att.net> wrote:
> "cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)" <cquirkenews@nospam.mvps.org>
> wrote in message news:v3luf192fl337ua69lb4t1l6sabm244623@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 20:17:56 +0100, Columbus <hiss@mail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm a home PC user based in the UK. I run mainly office
>>> applications and downloading music. No gaming or power PC stuff.
>>
>>> (A) My music is mainly on two or three 160 GB drives. Much of that
>>> can be replaced.
>>
>>> (B) I have also got XP on a 15 GB system partition.
>>
>>> (C) Various downloaded programs, utilities and cache files take 45
>>> GB on another partition.
>>
>>> My drives are ATA 3.5inch internal drives. I find it easy enough to
>>> put them in or take them out of the PC cabinet without needing to
>>> get an expensive USB attached hard drive.
>>
>>> I want to keep backup copies of the partitions used by the system (B
>>> above) and downloaded programs (C above).
>>
>>> How viable is it for a user like me to use a HARD DRIVE (maybe 160
>>> GB or 200 GB) as a backup medium?
>>
>> Caveats:
>>
>> 1) XP original (SP0) can't "see" HDs < 137G
>> 2) XP installations do not survive file-level copying, must image
>> 3) ATX "off" maintains power trickle; unsafe to remove IDE HDs
> So, means you should remove the power cord before removing hard drives?
He's just plain wrong and yes, you can remove the power cord.
>> 4) S-ATA hot-swappability requires S-ATA power connection
>> 5) Single recent backup may contain pre-existing problems
> Right. This 'simply' implies that you need to do a complete system
> backup just after installing Windows and setting up your default
> applications. Then, keep this known good backup separate from the
> on-going/periodic backups, which can be used if you need to restore
> from hardware failure.
Its better to have more than one backup of the full system.
Then if the system does get molested by a preexisting problem
you can step back to the older backup if you need to.
The main advantage of that approach over the backup taken just
after the clean install is that you're likely to have configured stuff
over time since the clean install and those config changes will be
lost if you go back to the backup done just after the clean install.
>> 6) HDs don't sem to like brackets and exclosures
> You're referring to heat - yes?
Cant see what he's on about with 'brackets' unless he is
referring to some drives like the Barracudas that get rid
of heat by conduction to the metal drive bay stack and can get
quite hot if you use plastic rails etc that stop that happening.
> I.e., the temperature of HDD's in external enclosures run hotter than when
> installed in a professionally built PC?
> How about the external enclosures with built in fans? [The ones that actually
> have ventilation for moving new air in, hot air out]
They're not usually as well done as the main system case airflow wise.
> Lastly, how about 2.5" harddrives? I've got one running in an
> aluminum case made by IWILL. It runs cooler to the touch than the
> bottom of my notebook where the hard drive is located. Are 2.5"
> HDD's any more susceptible to heat induced errors than 3.5" ones?
Nope, if anything less susceptible. They still dont like it tho, the Dell
laptops/notebooks that tend to run the drives right at the max the
drive manufacturer allows are notoriously for being hard drive killers.
>> So yes; you could use (say) BING from www.bootitng.com to image off
>> C: to another HD, as long as you unplug the PC from mains before
>> connecting and disconnecting the extra HD. Bear in mind the risk of
>> including problems within the backup, e.g. (say) a malware that
>> infected the system 29 days ago that has a 30-day payload fuse.
>>
>> For the rest of the data, I'd do file-level copies rather than image
>> backups, so that the backups are browsable. For the same reason, I'd
>> keep data you wanted to browse, off the C: that you will image.
>>
>> If copying files to CDR or DVDR, bear in mind that different file
>> system rules can knock file and path names around, attributes could
>> revert to read-only, and NTFS-specific metadata will typically be
>> lost. To preserve those things, consider first archiving within a
>> .zip (using something that manages the NTFS fluff, if that's
>> important to you) and then drop those .zip onto the CDR or DVDR.
fj <jelenko@att.net> wrote:
> "cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)" <cquirkenews@nospam.mvps.org>
> wrote in message news:v3luf192fl337ua69lb4t1l6sabm244623@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 20:17:56 +0100, Columbus <hiss@mail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm a home PC user based in the UK. I run mainly office
>>> applications and downloading music. No gaming or power PC stuff.
>>
>>> (A) My music is mainly on two or three 160 GB drives. Much of that
>>> can be replaced.
>>
>>> (B) I have also got XP on a 15 GB system partition.
>>
>>> (C) Various downloaded programs, utilities and cache files take 45
>>> GB on another partition.
>>
>>> My drives are ATA 3.5inch internal drives. I find it easy enough to
>>> put them in or take them out of the PC cabinet without needing to
>>> get an expensive USB attached hard drive.
>>
>>> I want to keep backup copies of the partitions used by the system (B
>>> above) and downloaded programs (C above).
>>
>>> How viable is it for a user like me to use a HARD DRIVE (maybe 160
>>> GB or 200 GB) as a backup medium?
>>
>> Caveats:
>>
>> 1) XP original (SP0) can't "see" HDs < 137G
>> 2) XP installations do not survive file-level copying, must image
>> 3) ATX "off" maintains power trickle; unsafe to remove IDE HDs
> So, means you should remove the power cord before removing hard drives?
He's just plain wrong and yes, you can remove the power cord.
>> 4) S-ATA hot-swappability requires S-ATA power connection
>> 5) Single recent backup may contain pre-existing problems
> Right. This 'simply' implies that you need to do a complete system
> backup just after installing Windows and setting up your default
> applications. Then, keep this known good backup separate from the
> on-going/periodic backups, which can be used if you need to restore
> from hardware failure.
Its better to have more than one backup of the full system.
Then if the system does get molested by a preexisting problem
you can step back to the older backup if you need to.
The main advantage of that approach over the backup taken just
after the clean install is that you're likely to have configured stuff
over time since the clean install and those config changes will be
lost if you go back to the backup done just after the clean install.
>> 6) HDs don't sem to like brackets and exclosures
> You're referring to heat - yes?
Cant see what he's on about with 'brackets' unless he is
referring to some drives like the Barracudas that get rid
of heat by conduction to the metal drive bay stack and can get
quite hot if you use plastic rails etc that stop that happening.
> I.e., the temperature of HDD's in external enclosures run hotter than when
> installed in a professionally built PC?
> How about the external enclosures with built in fans? [The ones that actually
> have ventilation for moving new air in, hot air out]
They're not usually as well done as the main system case airflow wise.
> Lastly, how about 2.5" harddrives? I've got one running in an
> aluminum case made by IWILL. It runs cooler to the touch than the
> bottom of my notebook where the hard drive is located. Are 2.5"
> HDD's any more susceptible to heat induced errors than 3.5" ones?
Nope, if anything less susceptible. They still dont like it tho, the Dell
laptops/notebooks that tend to run the drives right at the max the
drive manufacturer allows are notoriously for being hard drive killers.
>> So yes; you could use (say) BING from www.bootitng.com to image off
>> C: to another HD, as long as you unplug the PC from mains before
>> connecting and disconnecting the extra HD. Bear in mind the risk of
>> including problems within the backup, e.g. (say) a malware that
>> infected the system 29 days ago that has a 30-day payload fuse.
>>
>> For the rest of the data, I'd do file-level copies rather than image
>> backups, so that the backups are browsable. For the same reason, I'd
>> keep data you wanted to browse, off the C: that you will image.
>>
>> If copying files to CDR or DVDR, bear in mind that different file
>> system rules can knock file and path names around, attributes could
>> revert to read-only, and NTFS-specific metadata will typically be
>> lost. To preserve those things, consider first archiving within a
>> .zip (using something that manages the NTFS fluff, if that's
>> important to you) and then drop those .zip onto the CDR or DVDR.