[SOLVED] Worse temps after applying Kryonaut

Auura

Prominent
Jul 30, 2019
9
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510
I just bought an i9-9900KF and along with that bought an NZXT Kraken x52. My temps were a bit high for idle, around 40c. The thermal paste I used for this was whatever comes with a hyper 212 evo, cuz thats what my first CPU Cooler was back when i had a 7600k. After monitoring those high temps and not being happy i decided to go bigger and get the x62, along with some TG kryonaut. Now my idle temps are higher by 5 C (~45) and are very sporadic, sometimes jumping all the way to 60 C. All i have open is Chrome, steam, and MSI Afterburner to monitor temps. I thought this would give me better idle temps!!! Also, load temps seem to be fine maxing out around 77 C. Color me confused!!!

EDIT: I'm using stock CPU settings, no overclock. I want to fix this issue first before I do that.
 
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Auura,

The insights, suggestions and advice that Karadjgne has provided is well founded. There are, however, a few additional considerations I would like to bring to your attention.

In order to level the playing field so we can compare apples to apples, it's necessary to minimize as many variables as possible. By replicating test conditions that conform to Intel's datasheets and applying a methodical approach, variables can be minimized so results will be consistent, repeatable and easier to compare.

Unfortunately, most of the thermal values you see in various forums are the result of make-it-up-as-you-go adaptations of haphazard approaches taken without regard for environment, hardware or software variables. Many users...

Karadjgne

Titan
Ambassador
Idle temps are a product of airflow and ambient temps and cooler efficiency, not really anything much to do with the cpu itself. Most pc's with decent airflow will run @ 6-12°C above ambient at idle, windows background loads will make that bounce upto @ 20°C above idle temps for short periods, a few seconds. This affects All coolers, they'll All run within 5°C±, no matter if stock or hyper212 or kraken x72, it's dependent on the efficiency of the cooler.

My kraken x61 got stuck on silent mode and left there for 6years, it just worked wonderful and quiet. Moving upto performance mode dropped max load temps by 3-4°C, but doubled the noise output, so really isn't worth it.

45°C is high ish for idle, but if ambient temps are @ 30°C or higher, then that would be normal. If your ambient temps run @ 23°, idle temps should be closer to 28-32ish.

Word on ambient temps. That's a location factor. If the radiator is mounted as intake, ambient temps will be the room temp as that's the starting air source. If the radiator is mounted as exhaust, the Case temps will be ambient, so the idle will be affected by gpu output temps as well.

For testing idle temps with rad as exhaust, it's best done after the pc has been at idle state for 15-30 minutes, time to give the case air time to acclimate to idle, and not idle + gpu stress case temps which can easily get to 40°C inside the case, throwing off the results drastically.
 
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Auura

Prominent
Jul 30, 2019
9
0
510
Idle temps are a product of airflow and ambient temps and cooler efficiency, not really anything much to do with the cpu itself. Most pc's with decent airflow will run @ 6-12°C above ambient at idle, windows background loads will make that bounce upto @ 20°C above idle temps for short periods, a few seconds. This affects All coolers, they'll All run within 5°C±, no matter if stock or hyper212 or kraken x72, it's dependent on the efficiency of the cooler.

My kraken x61 got stuck on silent mode and left there for 6years, it just worked wonderful and quiet. Moving upto performance mode dropped max load temps by 3-4°C, but doubled the noise output, so really isn't worth it.

45°C is high ish for idle, but if ambient temps are @ 30°C or higher, then that would be normal. If your ambient temps run @ 23°, idle temps should be closer to 28-32ish.

Word on ambient temps. That's a location factor. If the radiator is mounted as intake, ambient temps will be the room temp as that's the starting air source. If the radiator is mounted as exhaust, the Case temps will be ambient, so the idle will be affected by gpu output temps as well.

For testing idle temps with rad as exhaust, it's best done after the pc has been at idle state for 15-30 minutes, time to give the case air time to acclimate to idle, and not idle + gpu stress case temps which can easily get to 40°C inside the case, throwing off the results drastically.
So would you say mounting the rad as intake would be beneficial? Especially if I have it as a push/pull?
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Ambassador
For the cpu, absolutely. A common misconception is that radiators and heatsinks are the same. They aren't, by any means. When you see an air-cooled cpu at 70°, the heatsink is Hot, close to that 70° mark. An aio is different. The coolant is in a constant battle to return to ambient temps, and liquids will absorb that heat energy, negating most of it. Coolant rarely ever gets more than 20° above ambient, usually running colder than cpu idle. You'll see this in Cam, your coolant should be in the low 30's at best. The colder the coolant, the higher the ability to absorb cpu heat and faster, so you'll see a marked difference on the cpu when the rad is dealing with 30° outside air and 40° case air. It's not a huge difference, but it is there.

AIO as intake usually gets 2-5°C lower cpu, side affect is gpu goes up 2-3°C at idle speeds. Fans in pull are more affective below @ 1200rpm, so if using silent mode, pull can drop that another 2-3°C vrs push. Fans in push are more effective above @1400rpm, so if your fans are usually that high under heavy loads, then you'll see @ 2-5°C better cpu temps vrs pull. Fans in push/pull generally will combine both, so you should see 2-5°C across any rpm range.

AIO's as intake push/pull can lower cpu temps @ 4-6°C. The cost factor for decent fans to get that, plus any noise factor, size factor vrs gpu length, even vrs hdd cages can prohibit push/pull, especially on the thicker 38/40mm rads, total can be @ 90mm+ of necessary clearance. For 5°C.

If the cpu under a gaming load isn't coming close to 70°C, it gets hard to justify dropping cpu temp 5° when there is Zero gain for anything. The wattage output is exactly the same, so heat from the rad is the same, cpu performance is the same, cpu temp is slightly lower. It's a number.

Figure out what ambient temp outside the case is. Add 10° to that, and thats roughly what the cpu should be at idle. ± a few °C. If it's way higher, either the pump isn't tight enough to the cpu (or seated correctly) or you have an airflow problem which will depend on fan curve settings, case, fan sizes and speeds etc.
 
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CompuTronix

Intel Master
Moderator
Auura,

The insights, suggestions and advice that Karadjgne has provided is well founded. There are, however, a few additional considerations I would like to bring to your attention.

In order to level the playing field so we can compare apples to apples, it's necessary to minimize as many variables as possible. By replicating test conditions that conform to Intel's datasheets and applying a methodical approach, variables can be minimized so results will be consistent, repeatable and easier to compare.

Unfortunately, most of the thermal values you see in various forums are the result of make-it-up-as-you-go adaptations of haphazard approaches taken without regard for environment, hardware or software variables. Many users apply the term "idle" very loosely, where "idle" is instead a light workload. When combined with differences in ambient temperature, this why you see so much variation in idle temperature numbers that get flung around like gorilla poo in a cage.

Idle means minimal software activity where you leave your rig to settle quietly and undisturbed for at least 10 minutes. No programs or screensaver running, and off line. No Folding or SETI or "tray-trash" or unnecessary startups, processes and services running in the background, and just 1 or 2% CPU Utilization under the "Performance" tab in Windows Task Manager.



These test conditions reduce the variables to their lowest common denominators. In a well ventilated case, with default power saving features enabled in BIOS and Windows Power Options set to "Balanced", you should be able to achieve the lowest possible power consumption and idle temperatures. With high-end cooling, idle can be as low as 3°C above ambient.

As with "idle" temperatures, "full load" is another popular user term that's very loosely applied, which could mean anything. This also introduces another HUGE set of variables. “Stress” tests vary widely and can be characterized into two categories; stability tests which are fluctuating workloads, and thermal tests which are steady workloads. Utilities that don't overload or underload your processor will give you a valid thermal baseline.

Here’s a comparison of utilities grouped as thermal and stability tests according to % of TDP, averaged across six processor Generations at stock settings rounded to the nearest 5%:



Although these tests range from 70% to 130% TDP workload, Windows Task Manager interprets every test as 100% CPU Utilization, which is processor resource activity, not actual workload. Core temperatures respond directly to Power consumption (Watts), which is driven by workload. Prime95 v29.8 Small FFT’s (AVX disabled) provides a steady 100% workload.



Shown above from left to right: Small FFT's, Blend, Linpack and IntelBurn Test.

Note the steady thermal signature of Small FFT's, which allows accurate measurements of Core temperatures. A steady 100% workload is key for thermal testing so the CPU, cooler, socket, motherboard and voltage regulators can thermally stabilize.



Shown above from left to right: Small FFT's, Intel Extreme Tuning Utility CPU Test, and AIDA64 CPU Test.

Intel Extreme Tuning Utility is also a fluctuating workload, and AIDA64 has 15 possible CPU related stress test selections which impose 15 different levels of workloads that yield 15 different Core temperatures. That's a lot of variables. Although the individual CPU test is a steady workload, it's just 70% TDP, which is poorly suited for testing anything. Only the CPU/FPU test combination is about 100% TDP workload. All other AIDA64 test selections are fluctuating workloads which are suitable for stability testing, but not so much for thermal testing.

So the bottom line is to be mindful of your methods and approach with respect to what you're testing, and the variables involved, so you can achieve meaningful baseline results. If you read forum threads where the user fails to provide basic details such as full system specs and ambient temperature, or doesn't define "idle" conditions or "load" software, then I would be sceptical and would expect those numbers to be skewed by a large assortment of variables.

CT :sol:
 
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