Worst Mirrodin block card?

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.misc (More info?)

There are some doozies in there but I'm gonna have to say that Drooling Ogre
and Karstoderm are tied for the worst card in the Mirrodin block.

--
Gravity: it's not just a good idea, it's the law.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.misc (More info?)

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:18:42 -0500, "Zaxx" <bogus@cox.net> wrote:

>There are some doozies in there but I'm gonna have to say that Drooling Ogre
>and Karstoderm are tied for the worst card in the Mirrodin block.

Let me be the guy who points out that creatures can rarely
realistically top a "worst of" list. They're still *creatures*, and
could conceivably win the game for you as your only non-land card.

You have picked two creatures that are "hosed" merely by the presence
of artifacts. If it's a choice betweent the two (and you assume a
playfield littered with artifacts, or soon-to-be-littered), then the
Drooling Ogre would be worse, as you would spend a card to give a
mid-size dude to your opponent. The Karstoderm would simply be a
small, smaller, or dead creature in the same circumstance.

Still, Ur-Golem's Eye? the "fixed" Lucky Charms? Metal Fatigue?
Second Sight? Vex? Aether Snap? I'll stop on that one, as it's
pretty high up on my list... I also was only looking at the DS
spoiler, so didn't touch Mirrodin.

Still, it can be an interesting discussion topic.

-- pseudosoldier
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.misc (More info?)

pseudosoldier wrote:

> Let me be the guy who points out that creatures can rarely
> realistically top a "worst of" list. They're still *creatures*, and
> could conceivably win the game for you as your only non-land card.
>
> You have picked two creatures that are "hosed" merely by the presence
> of artifacts.

I did say "Mirrodin block". The format is lousy with artifacts.

> Still, Ur-Golem's Eye?

While I don't normally play this card, I can see it's use in a Mycosytnh
Lattice/March of the Machines deck. It produces 2 mana and swings for 4 in
that environment. Admittedly that's about it's only use.

> the "fixed" Lucky Charms?

Which card is that?

> Metal Fatigue?

Outside of Mirrodin block, it's hard to argue with your choice.

> Second Sight?

What's so bad about this one? Blue is lousy with "reorder your deck"spells.
The ability to do the same for your opponent's deck makes this one fun to
play.

> Vex?

I hate giving up the extra card but if I have to choose between Vex and Mana
Leak or any other counter with a "can be countered for X" in it, I'm picking
Vex.

> Aether Snap?

I'm guessing you're bagging on the situational aspect of this card. It's
death to Arcbound and Darksteel Reactor decks. It also makes your opponent's
Decree of Justice look pretty damn silly. Genesis Chamber, Wirewood
Hivemaster, Infested Roothold and all the other token generators in the
current format all suffer mightily when Aether Snap is played.

From that point of view, it's a very useful card. But I can't argue that
it's purely situational.

--
Gravity: it's not just a good idea, it's the law.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.misc (More info?)

> There are some doozies in there but I'm gonna have to say that Drooling
Ogre
> and Karstoderm are tied for the worst card in the Mirrodin block.

Hardly. At least outside of Mirrodin block, these are both good,
especially the Ogre which is incredible in casual when your opponents
usually don't play too many artifacts. Inside Mirrodin block, they're not
very good but not the worst either.
So what is worst? I dunno, I can't remember the whole block off the top
of my head... Fractured Loyalty is pretty bad. For creatures, Chimney Imp
and Tel-Jilad Outrider are overcosted. Crazed Goblin is worse than Mons'
Goblin Raiders. There must be more but I'm too tired to think. 😛
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.misc (More info?)

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004, Zaxx wrote:

> There are some doozies in there but I'm gonna have to say that Drooling Ogre
> and Karstoderm are tied for the worst card in the Mirrodin block.

Lich's Tomb is imo the worst Mirrodin block card in any format.

David
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.misc (More info?)

"Chris Wiegert" <cwiegert@telus.net> wrote in message news:<Kz3fc.9685$dg7.2395@edtnps84>...
> > There are some doozies in there but I'm gonna have to say that Drooling
> Ogre
> > and Karstoderm are tied for the worst card in the Mirrodin block.
>
> Hardly. At least outside of Mirrodin block, these are both good,
> especially the Ogre which is incredible in casual when your opponents
> usually don't play too many artifacts. Inside Mirrodin block, they're not
> very good but not the worst either.
> So what is worst? I dunno, I can't remember the whole block off the top
> of my head... Fractured Loyalty is pretty bad.

Call me crazy, but I really like drafting Fractured Loyalty. My red
decks usually feature Tooth of Chiss-Goria, which powers up Spikeshot
and first strike guys really well. Granite Shard also usually makes an
appearance. With that in mind, Fractured Loyalty is almost always
Control Magic for 1R. And, if for some reason they're able to take
control again, you've got things like Krark-Clan Grunt, Atog, Shrapnel
Blast, War Boar, etc., to sacrifice it before they steal it back. You
can usally draft at least two really late.

> For creatures, Chimney Imp
> and Tel-Jilad Outrider are overcosted.

Agreed, althoug it's important to note that, aside from mana cost,
they are both good creatures. They just cost too much.

> Crazed Goblin is worse than Mons'
> Goblin Raiders. There must be more but I'm too tired to think. 😛

Yeah, I don't really know the purpose of that dude, other than for
flavor.

Lich's Tomb is hideously bad. I keep wanting to see another line of
text on it. All it really does is trade one way of losing for another
way. If it drew extra cards or something, it might be playable.

The new lucky charms are better than expected. I've seen people board
them in in limited in mirror matches. I played a red on red matchup
last night where the other guy had Sun Droplet, Demon's Horn, and
Thunderstaff in play. I just couldn't get any damage to stick to him.

There aren't many truly horrible cards in Mirrodin. Sure, some are
pretty specialized, like Mesmeric Orb, Shared Fate, or Myr
Mindservant, or out of place, like Drooling Ogre and Dross Prowler.

Overall, I think WotC has gotten much better at weeding out truly
bottom-of-the-barrel cards. There's nothing wrong with printing
specialized cards, especially if their utility is less than obivous.

--
Justin
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.misc (More info?)

Justin Sexton wrote:
> With that in mind, Fractured Loyalty is almost always
> Control Magic for 1R. And, if for some reason they're able to take
> control again, you've got things like Krark-Clan Grunt, Atog, Shrapnel
> Blast, War Boar, etc., to sacrifice it before they steal it back.

Assuming you use it to steal an artifact, of course.

> You can usally draft at least two really late.

Not in my neck of the woods, you can't. Besides, they're uncommon. Getting
two in one draft is unlikely with only two packs of Mirrodin.

>> For creatures, Chimney Imp
>> and Tel-Jilad Outrider are overcosted.
>
> Agreed, althoug it's important to note that, aside from mana cost,
> they are both good creatures. They just cost too much.

In the case of Chimney Imp, by 2. That's a hell of a lot.

In the case of the Outrider, I'd say it's more that Tel-Jilad Chosen is
undercosted. In a block where Shatter is as good as Terror, protection from
artifacts is as valuable as protection from creatures and 2/1 creatures with
the ability should not come in at 2cc.

--
Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't
live anywhere else.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.misc (More info?)

David Chapman wrote:
> Justin Sexton wrote:
>>>For creatures, Chimney Imp
>>>and Tel-Jilad Outrider are overcosted.
>>
>>Agreed, althoug it's important to note that, aside from mana cost,
>>they are both good creatures. They just cost too much.
>
>
> In the case of Chimney Imp, by 2. That's a hell of a lot.

Agreed. If it were 2/1, and 3B, you could make a case for it...see
Screeching Buzzard, and you can argue that putting a card back on top of
the library is more powerful than discarding it...but 5 mana? 1 power?
Heads should roll over this.

>
> In the case of the Outrider, I'd say it's more that Tel-Jilad Chosen is
> undercosted. In a block where Shatter is as good as Terror, protection from
> artifacts is as valuable as protection from creatures and 2/1 creatures with
> the ability should not come in at 2cc.
>

Possibly. But by that logic, any card dealing with artifacts should
cost more. I don't think the environment should necessarily have a
direct effect on how cards are costed. I think the Chosen is
appropriate, and the Outrider should have been 3/2.

I'm going to have to concur with those who say Lich's Tomb is the worst
card. It doesn't DO anything! It just sits there, like Senor
Xtapolapocetl. It gives you the drawback of Lich without the card
drawing. I guess if you are at one life, you've got a new lease for a
bit, but isn't Claws of Gix better?

Bah. Carry on.

> --
> Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't
> live anywhere else.
>
>


--

"Today, for a lark, let's visit the pants. I'm
sure we'll find something to entertain us."
 
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pseudosoldier <pseudosoldier@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Still, Ur-Golem's Eye? the "fixed" Lucky Charms?

Psst. The _original_lucky charms were severely underrated, in multiplayer
anyway. (In an environment where you will lose in five turns unless you
win, of -course- life gain isn't worth it in general.) The "fixed" ones are
even better - _free_ lifegain? Not to be sneezed at... and combined with
Well of Lost Dreams gives you way too much card advantage...

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
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pseudosoldier sez:

<<
>Still, Ur-Golem's Eye?
>
>>

It would've been worth something if it had Affinity, rather than being a
straight Sisay's Ring reprint. Up its cost by 1, and you're golden...

But still, it's not nearly as bad in the Mirrodin world, because of all the
colorless mana...but Vedalken Engineer is, of course, strictly better in that
world...


----
"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."
--Sigmund Freud
"Sometimes a cake is just a cake."
--Deanna Troi, Star Trek: TNG: "Phantasms"
 
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Zaxx sez:

<<
>> the "fixed" Lucky Charms?
>
>Which card is that?

>
>>

The Lucky Charms are the cards in the base set (Ivory Cup, Throne of Bone,
Crystal Rod, Iron Star, and Wooden Sphere) that trigger off of spells played,
letting you pay 1 to gain 1 life. the "fixed" Charms in DS take away the
payment.


----
"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."
--Sigmund Freud
"Sometimes a cake is just a cake."
--Deanna Troi, Star Trek: TNG: "Phantasms"
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.misc (More info?)

Chris Wiegert sez:

<<
>> There are some doozies in there but I'm gonna have to say that Drooling Ogre
>> and Karstoderm are tied for the worst card in the Mirrodin block.
>
> Hardly. At least outside of Mirrodin block, these are both good,
>especially the Ogre which is incredible in casual when your opponents
>usually don't play too many artifacts. Inside Mirrodin block, they're not
>very good but not the worst either.
> So what is worst? I dunno, I can't remember the whole block off the top
>of my head... Fractured Loyalty is pretty bad. For creatures, Chimney Imp
>and Tel-Jilad Outrider are overcosted. Crazed Goblin is worse than Mons'
>Goblin Raiders. There must be more but I'm too tired to think.
>
>>

I'm almost tempted to say Bloodscent is the worst. The only real advantage it
has over Lure is that it's splashable.


----
"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."
--Sigmund Freud
"Sometimes a cake is just a cake."
--Deanna Troi, Star Trek: TNG: "Phantasms"
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.misc (More info?)

"David Chapman" <jedit_ojanen8@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<c5k41n$2hs7h$1@ID-212270.news.uni-berlin.de>...

Bwah? When did you get back?

> Justin Sexton wrote:
> > With that in mind, Fractured Loyalty is almost always
> > Control Magic for 1R. And, if for some reason they're able to take
> > control again, you've got things like Krark-Clan Grunt, Atog, Shrapnel
> > Blast, War Boar, etc., to sacrifice it before they steal it back.
>
> Assuming you use it to steal an artifact, of course.

True, although there are options for dealing with non-artifact
creatures. Grab the Reins, Skullclamp, Spawning Pit, Nim Shambler,
etc.

> > You can usally draft at least two really late.
>
> Not in my neck of the woods, you can't. Besides, they're uncommon. Getting
> two in one draft is unlikely with only two packs of Mirrodin.

They're getting harder to draft at my store as well, now that my
secret's out. No one laughs anymore...

> >> For creatures, Chimney Imp
> >> and Tel-Jilad Outrider are overcosted.
> >
> > Agreed, althoug it's important to note that, aside from mana cost,
> > they are both good creatures. They just cost too much.
>
> In the case of Chimney Imp, by 2. That's a hell of a lot.

Yup. My point was that they aren't inherently terrible, ala Crazed
Goblin. It's just the mana issue.

> In the case of the Outrider, I'd say it's more that Tel-Jilad Chosen is
> undercosted. In a block where Shatter is as good as Terror,

*coughbetterthancough*

> protection from
> artifacts is as valuable as protection from creatures and 2/1 creatures with
> the ability should not come in at 2cc.

You know, I used to think that. Lately, though, I've been less and
less happy with the Chosen. I'll still play them, of course, but I'm
never happy about drawing them after turn two. At least you can equip
mid to late Myr.

Given that, I really can't stand the Outriders. They die just as
easily, don't swing until turn five, and only trade with maybe three
more common creautres than the Chosen. Unfourtunately, unless you can
draft craziness like triple Tangle Golem, you're stuck with picks like
Outriders in Darksteel.

--
Justin
 
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djaxmann@aol.computer (Andy Jakcsy) wrote in message news:<20040415004131.03548.00000256@mb-m25.aol.com>...
> pseudosoldier sez:
>
> <<
> >Still, Ur-Golem's Eye?
> >
> >>
>
> It would've been worth something if it had Affinity, rather than being a
> straight Sisay's Ring reprint. Up its cost by 1, and you're golden...

So you're proposing this:

Ur-Golem's Colon
5
Artifact
Affinity for artifacts
Tap: Add 2 to your mana pool.

Wow. Amazingly broken. Given that Affinity regulary drops Frogmites
for free on turn two, now you want to give Affinity a card that will
effectively cost one or no mana, and tap to produce three (affinity,
remember?) mana? If you gave it affinity, it would need to cost 6 at
least, as well as coming into play tapped. Otherwise, you may as well
just reprint Sol Ring and give it to every deck.

> But still, it's not nearly as bad in the Mirrodin world, because of all the
> colorless mana...but Vedalken Engineer is, of course, strictly better in that
> world...

Aside from the fact that it doesn't make mana the turn it comes into
play, doesn't help affinity, doesn't sac to Ravager, can't receive
modular counters, and dies to any creature kill, yes.

And with the relative scarcity of Myrs nowadays, I like picking up an
Eye or two for any green deck I draft, assuming my curve includes
Hunters, Forgers, Archers, and the like.

--
Justin
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.misc (More info?)

Justin Sexton wrote:
> "David Chapman" <jedit_ojanen8@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:<c5k41n$2hs7h$1@ID-212270.news.uni-berlin.de>...
>
> Bwah? When did you get back?

A little while back, You've not been paying attention.

>> Justin Sexton wrote:
>>> With that in mind, Fractured Loyalty is almost always
>>> Control Magic for 1R. And, if for some reason they're able to take
>>> control again, you've got things like Krark-Clan Grunt, Atog, Shrapnel
>>> Blast, War Boar, etc., to sacrifice it before they steal it back.
>>
>> Assuming you use it to steal an artifact, of course.
>
> True, although there are options for dealing with non-artifact
> creatures. Grab the Reins,

If I have Grab The Reins I'm not going to be wasting a Fractured Loyalty to
steal the creature, am I?

> Skullclamp, Spawning Pit, Nim Shambler,
> etc.

Skullclamp is not necessarily an option.

>>> You can usally draft at least two really late.
>>
>> Not in my neck of the woods, you can't. Besides, they're uncommon.
>> Getting two in one draft is unlikely with only two packs of Mirrodin.
>
> They're getting harder to draft at my store as well, now that my
> secret's out. No one laughs anymore...

They were never easy to draft around here.

>
>>>> For creatures, Chimney Imp
>>>> and Tel-Jilad Outrider are overcosted.
>>>
>>> Agreed, althoug it's important to note that, aside from mana cost,
>>> they are both good creatures. They just cost too much.
>>
>> In the case of Chimney Imp, by 2. That's a hell of a lot.
>
> Yup. My point was that they aren't inherently terrible, ala Crazed
> Goblin. It's just the mana issue.

That's not a valid point. Cards are bad for two reasons only: either they
don't provide enough positive effect, or they cost too much.

>> In the case of the Outrider, I'd say it's more that Tel-Jilad Chosen is
>> undercosted. In a block where Shatter is as good as Terror,
>
> *coughbetterthancough*

That's getting debatable now. Darksteel adds a lot of playable coloured
creatures to the mix.

--
Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't
live anywhere else.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.misc (More info?)

"David Chapman" <jedit_ojanen8@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<c5mueq$3l2bb$1@ID-212270.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> Justin Sexton wrote:
> > "David Chapman" <jedit_ojanen8@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:<c5k41n$2hs7h$1@ID-212270.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> >
> > Bwah? When did you get back?
>
> A little while back, You've not been paying attention.

Huh. Guess not. I usually barely skim .misc, which I now see is where
you announced your return.

> >> Justin Sexton wrote:
> >>> With that in mind, Fractured Loyalty is almost always
> >>> Control Magic for 1R. And, if for some reason they're able to take
> >>> control again, you've got things like Krark-Clan Grunt, Atog, Shrapnel
> >>> Blast, War Boar, etc., to sacrifice it before they steal it back.
> >>
> >> Assuming you use it to steal an artifact, of course.
> >
> > True, although there are options for dealing with non-artifact
> > creatures. Grab the Reins,
>
> If I have Grab The Reins I'm not going to be wasting a Fractured Loyalty to
> steal the creature, am I?

....unless you draw Reins later.

> > Skullclamp, Spawning Pit, Nim Shambler,
> > etc.
>
> Skullclamp is not necessarily an option.

::sigh:: Yeah, I really missed the pedantry. I just mentioning
options. Point is, there's lots of ways in MRD block to sac a critter
that you steal with Loyalty. Conveniently, many are in red.

> >>>> For creatures, Chimney Imp
> >>>> and Tel-Jilad Outrider are overcosted.
> >>>
> >>> Agreed, althoug it's important to note that, aside from mana cost,
> >>> they are both good creatures. They just cost too much.
> >>
> >> In the case of Chimney Imp, by 2. That's a hell of a lot.
> >
> > Yup. My point was that they aren't inherently terrible, ala Crazed
> > Goblin. It's just the mana issue.
>
> That's not a valid point. Cards are bad for two reasons only: either they
> don't provide enough positive effect, or they cost too much.

I think that's a bit simplistic, but I'll deal with that another day.

Anyway, I'm not trying to say that the imp is a good, or even
playable, card. I was simply making the distinction between overcosted
and just plain weak.

> >> In the case of the Outrider, I'd say it's more that Tel-Jilad Chosen is
> >> undercosted. In a block where Shatter is as good as Terror,
> >
> > *coughbetterthancough*
>
> That's getting debatable now. Darksteel adds a lot of playable coloured
> creatures to the mix.

And a whole host of dominating artifacts. I think it's a push.

--
Justin
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.misc (More info?)

Justin Sexton wrote:
> "David Chapman" <jedit_ojanen8@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:<c5mueq$3l2bb$1@ID-212270.news.uni-berlin.de>...
>> Justin Sexton wrote:
>>> "David Chapman" <jedit_ojanen8@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:c5k41n$2hs7h$1@ID-212270.news.uni-berlin.de...

>>>> In the case of the Outrider, I'd say it's more that Tel-Jilad Chosen is
>>>> undercosted. In a block where Shatter is as good as Terror,
>>>
>>> *coughbetterthancough*
>>
>> That's getting debatable now. Darksteel adds a lot of playable coloured
>> creatures to the mix.
>
> And a whole host of dominating artifacts.

Many of which can't be killed by Shatter or whose effect on the board
doesn't end when they die. There's no more than four or five non-rare
artifacts that you *really* need to Shatter, and at least half again as many
non-rare coloured creatures that can seriously wreck you if you can't Terror
them.

--
Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't
live anywhere else.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.misc (More info?)

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:56:58 +0200, David de Kloet wrote:
>
> Lich's Tomb is imo the worst Mirrodin block card in any format.
>

One of the Top 8 decks (Masahiko Morita) in the Grand Prix 2004 in
Sendai used Lich's Tomb in the sideboard. Does someone know, if it
was put into the deck during some game (and if it did come into play)?

Nuff
 
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