[SOLVED] Worth the upgrade ?

JasonNs_

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Sep 22, 2020
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Please keep it to 1 thread
Should I upgrade my i5 9400f to i7 8700 ? Or should I get ryzen 3600 with new mobo for the same price ? If none of them which cpu you recommend ? My budget is 300$
 
What is your current bios level?
From the support link above,
9400f requires level 1404 or higher.
i7-8700k, 9700 ,or 9700K requires 0221 or better.
i7-8700 for whatever reason shows no bios level, but I would presume that is a typo and 0221 would be required.
you can download the latest bios which is 2811 here:

Your cooler is fine for any of them.

As to performance, you decide.
Your 9400f has 6 threads and a rating of 9589/2492
8700 has 12 threads and 13115/2684
8700k has 12 threads and 13902/2788
9700 has 8 threads and 13551/2684
9700K has 8 threads and 14573/ 2910

Any of the options would work well.
If the price were equal, the 9700K would be the strongest.
 

JasonNs_

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Sep 22, 2020
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i got i5 9400f and gtx 1660, i play ALL of my games at low settings since i want to benefit from my 144hz monitor, if i want to get extra frames, should i upgrade CPU or GPU ? shall i get ryzen 5 3600 as upgrade or rtx 3060 ti ?
 
You said in your other post that you had a 300 dollars budget so forget the 3060TI because it's higher than 300 just for the GPU and you might need a new PSU. What's your PSU?

The GPU would obviously give you the biggest FPS boost compared to the CPU.
 
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By upgrading your CPU youll get better fps mainly in large multiplayer games like Battlefield or in games with a lot of AI characters.
By upgrading your GPU youll get better fps overall BUT if the cpu bottlenecks the gpu the frames might not be as high as you expect
 

allidsarebusy

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I tell you what, for years i was a hardcore laptop user and was only using Intel CPUs. Not so long ago i've decided to build a good home setup as i needed to do some Fusion 360 and photoshop.

After reading tones of pages and info (I was behind tech stuff) It became clear to me that AMD has the ball right.

I don't care about 3, 5 or 7% extra performance in games at 1080p. But i do care about solid performance in both single and multi core as well as general characteristics and power consumption.

AMD just makes all around better product right now.

I have 3600 from August and only recently, by chance i got myself 3900X. In all that time i was blown away by how good 3600 is, very solid CPU with overall great performance.

If you put consumer craziness apart, there is a good reason why Ryzen gen. 3000 CPUs are selling like crazy right now. They simply present superb value for money.
 

JasonNs_

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Sep 22, 2020
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I tell you what, for years i was a hardcore laptop user and was only using Intel CPUs. Not so long ago i've decided to build a good home setup as i needed to do some Fusion 360 and photoshop.

After reading tones of pages and info (I was behind tech stuff) It became clear to me that AMD has the ball right.

I don't care about 3, 5 or 7% extra performance in games at 1080p. But i do care about solid performance in both single and multi core as well as general characteristics and power consumption.

AMD just makes all around better product right now.

I have 3600 from August and only recently, by chance i got myself 3900X. In all that time i was blown away by how good 3600 is, very solid CPU with overall great performance.

If you put consumer craziness apart, there is a good reason why Ryzen gen. 3000 CPUs are selling like crazy right now. They simply present superb value for money.
True, i mean why would i spend 300 dollars for i7 8700, while i can buy ryzen 5 3600 with a mobo with pair of ram and has better upgrade path.
 

JasonNs_

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Sep 22, 2020
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in my country RTX 3060 TI is al
You said in your other post that you had a 300 dollars budget so forget the 3060TI because it's higher than 300 just for the GPU and you might need a new PSU. What's your PSU?

The GPU would obviously give you the biggest FPS boost compared to the CPU.
in my country the rtx 3060 ti is 350$ so i can get the extra 50$, and ive Seasonic core GX 650w psu.
also my main games are CSGO and GTA V online, and i play 1080p lowest possible, so which way should i go ?
 
in my country RTX 3060 TI is al
in my country the rtx 3060 ti is 350$ so i can get the extra 50$, and ive Seasonic core GX 650w psu.
also my main games are CSGO and GTA V online, and i play 1080p lowest possible, so which way should i go ?
The 3060TI would be ok. Your PSU is ok too. I'd go for that 3060TI.

Don't forget to upgrade your CPU/Board and RAM later :)
 
There would be no bottleneck ? since the weird i5 has 6 cores and 6 threads, intel, lol.
The question was. If you change your CPU or your GPU which one will give you the biggest FPS boost. The GPU is the answer. Yes your CPU might not be able to push as many FPS as modern CPU can to that GPU but you will still see a great difference between that 1660 and 3060ti.

Your CPU is still a 6 cores CPU. It's ok for the moment but who knows in 3-4 years. So upgrade your GPU now and upgrade your CPU later and you will be fine :)
 
Some games are cpu limited, and some are graphics limited.
My reading says that your games are cpu limited and largely single threaded.
Try this simple test:
Run YOUR games, but lower your resolution and eye candy.
This makes the graphics card loaf a bit.
If your FPS increases, it indicates that your cpu is strong enough to drive a better graphics configuration.
If your FPS stays the same, you are likely more cpu limited.

On processor, look at the passmark single thread ratings.
That is what games need most once you have 4-6 threads.
The 9400f single thread rating is 2492, quite decent.
A 9700K would be about the strongest cpu upgrade for your motherboard at 2910.

Past that, look to ryzen 5600x at 3382
 

JasonNs_

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Sep 22, 2020
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Some games are cpu limited, and some are graphics limited.
My reading says that your games are cpu limited and largely single threaded.
Try this simple test:
Run YOUR games, but lower your resolution and eye candy.
This makes the graphics card loaf a bit.
If your FPS increases, it indicates that your cpu is strong enough to drive a better graphics configuration.
If your FPS stays the same, you are likely more cpu limited.

On processor, look at the passmark single thread ratings.
That is what games need most once you have 4-6 threads.
The 9400f single thread rating is 2492, quite decent.
A 9700K would be about the strongest cpu upgrade for your motherboard at 2910.

Past that, look to ryzen 5600x at 3382
Nice info, thanks, ye i tried to lower the resolution and yeah, no FPS difference so i guess the CPU is limiting me, so should i get the 9700 since ive B series mobo, or swap to ryzen 5 3600 ? Keep in mind im not only a gamer, i do video editing and graphics designing, also i hate the 9700 since its almost full usage at heavy games, unlike 8700 or r5 3600.
 
Most games can not make effective use of more than 4-6 threads.
Multiplayer with many participants is the main exception.
To prove it for your games, take a thread away and see how much difference it makes or does not make.
You can do this in the windows msconfig boot advanced options option.
You will need to reboot for the change to take effect. Set the number of threads to less than you have.
This will tell you how sensitive your games are to the benefits of many threads.
If you see little difference, your game does not need all the threads you have.

What is the make/model of your motherboard?
If it is a Z prefix chipset, you can overclock a Z suffix processor and do a bit better.
Even if you do not have an overclocking motherboard, the 9700K is stronger than the 9700 at stock. 4.9 turbo vs. 4.7.
9900K is a tad stronger @5.0, but it takes very good cooling to allow that.
And, the quality of your motherboard may preclude that being a good choice.

ryzen 3600 would not be as effective for single threaded games like yours. It has a single thread passmark rating of 2585.
Better to find ryzen 5600x or wait and see what intel 11th gen brings.
 
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JasonNs_

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Sep 22, 2020
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Most games can not make effective use of more than 4-6 threads.
Multiplayer with many participants is the main exception.
To prove it for your games, take a thread away and see how much difference it makes or does not make.
You can do this in the windows msconfig boot advanced options option.
You will need to reboot for the change to take effect. Set the number of threads to less than you have.
This will tell you how sensitive your games are to the benefits of many threads.
If you see little difference, your game does not need all the threads you have.

What is the make/model of your motherboard?
If it is a Z prefix chipset, you can overclock a Z suffix processor and do a bit better.
Even if you do not have an overclocking motherboard, the 9700K is stronger than the 9700 at stock. 4.9 turbo vs. 4.7.
9900K is a tad stronger @5.0, but it takes very good cooling to allow that.
And, the quality of your motherboard may preclude that being a good choice.

ryzen 3600 would not be as effective for single threaded games like yours. It has a single thread passmark rating of 2585.
Better to find ryzen 5600x or wait and see what intel 11th gen brings.
I dont need to disable couple cores or threads since ive i3 9100f in another build, and there was no big difference in gaming experience, the only difference was the usage and faster videos exporting, and btw ive a budget of 300$ so i cant buy, 11th gen or R5600x, and i do have Asus B360m-k motherboard, not fancy, and the reason im thinking to swap to ryzen since it has better upgrading path in future, conclusion, Should i pick the 9700k, or swap to ryzen and pick Asus Tuf b450-PLUS mobo with Ryzen 5 3600 ?
 

Karadjgne

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Ambassador
First I'd determine exactly what needs upgrading.

Fps comes from the cpu. It can only process X amount of frames worth of code in a given second. That gets sent to the gpu to be rendered and put on screen. The gpu can either live upto that max or not, it cannot render more frames than its given.

So if raising settings to high drops your fps drastically, then you have a gpu issue. If raising to high changes fps very little to none, then your gpu is capable, but the cpu is capped and maxed out.

Do this on the hardest game, something that challenges the cpu and gpu, not CSGO. That depends on only 2 threads and is pretty simplistic for graphics. I could get almost 300fps in Office at ultra settings with a i7-3770k @ 4.6GHz and gtx970.

Once you figure out what the limitations are, you'll know what upgrade will benefit your fps the most.
 

JasonNs_

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Sep 22, 2020
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First I'd determine exactly what needs upgrading.

Fps comes from the cpu. It can only process X amount of frames worth of code in a given second. That gets sent to the gpu to be rendered and put on screen. The gpu can either live upto that max or not, it cannot render more frames than its given.

So if raising settings to high drops your fps drastically, then you have a gpu issue. If raising to high changes fps very little to none, then your gpu is capable, but the cpu is capped and maxed out.

Do this on the hardest game, something that challenges the cpu and gpu, not CSGO. That depends on only 2 threads and is pretty simplistic for graphics. I could get almost 300fps in Office at ultra settings with a i7-3770k @ 4.6GHz and gtx970.

Once you figure out what the limitations are, you'll know what upgrade will benefit your fps the most.
I played multiple games with these specs, as i said, i play all low, and my GPU isnt maxed out, so i know now that my CPU is limiting, but my question atm is what KIND of CPU i need.
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Ambassador
That's not an easy answer. For me, I haven't recommended an i5 Period! in years, the limited thread count, lack of hyperthreading etc just blows it for me. To that end the only upgrade I'd recommend for you would be the i7 9700k if doing cheap.

While the 9700k still didn't bump up thread counts and hyperthreading like the 10thgen did, going for a 9900k/s isn't viable, your motherboard is a limiting factor. At least you are looking at a full 8 cores and serious speeds.

Other than that, Ryzen 3600. But that'd require a motherboard.
 

JasonNs_

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Sep 22, 2020
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That's not an easy answer. For me, I haven't recommended an i5 Period! in years, the limited thread count, lack of hyperthreading etc just blows it for me. To that end the only upgrade I'd recommend for you would be the i7 9700k if doing cheap.

While the 9700k still didn't bump up thread counts and hyperthreading like the 10thgen did, going for a 9900k/s isn't viable, your motherboard is a limiting factor. At least you are looking at a full 8 cores and serious speeds.

Other than that, Ryzen 3600. But that'd require a motherboard.
Yeah well in my country i can buy the R5 3600, with Asus Tuf b450-PLUS gaming mobo, for the same price of the 9700k.
 
I dont need to disable couple cores or threads since ive i3 9100f in another build, and there was no big difference in gaming experience, the only difference was the usage and faster videos exporting, and btw ive a budget of 300$ so i cant buy, 11th gen or R5600x, and i do have Asus B360m-k motherboard, not fancy, and the reason im thinking to swap to ryzen since it has better upgrading path in future, conclusion, Should i pick the 9700k, or swap to ryzen and pick Asus Tuf b450-PLUS mobo with Ryzen 5 3600 ?
Since a 4 thread 9100f and a 9400f with 6 threads produce about the same gaming experience for you, I would conclude that extra threads from 12 thread 3600 is not going to help or gaming but might for batch apps.
9400f has 6 threads and a passmark rating of 9589 that is when all 6 threads are fully operating at 100%. Not a usual gaming scenario.
The single thread rating is 2492.
The ryzen 3600 has 12 threads and a rating of 17864/2585.
A nice boost for batch, not so much for gaming.
By comparison, a 9700K has 8 threads which is a boost, and the passmark rating is
14573/2910.
What is the ram you now have?
ryzen wants fast ram, about 3600 speed to perform at it's best.

Today, I would not upgrade to a back level chipset motherboard.
If you go ryzen, look for a X570 motherboard which is likely to support the 5000 series processors best.
It is not clear if the next gen ryzen processors past 5000 are going to run on amd4 motherboards. There comes a time when support must end to allow better processors.

If you want a new intel motherboard, wait for the rocket lake announcement and the 500 series motherboards.
 

JasonNs_

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Sep 22, 2020
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Since a 4 thread 9100f and a 9400f with 6 threads produce about the same gaming experience for you, I would conclude that extra threads from 12 thread 3600 is not going to help or gaming but might for batch apps.
9400f has 6 threads and a passmark rating of 9589 that is when all 6 threads are fully operating at 100%. Not a usual gaming scenario.
The single thread rating is 2492.
The ryzen 3600 has 12 threads and a rating of 17864/2585.
A nice boost for batch, not so much for gaming.
By comparison, a 9700K has 8 threads which is a boost, and the passmark rating is
14573/2910.
What is the ram you now have?
ryzen wants fast ram, about 3600 speed to perform at it's best.

Today, I would not upgrade to a back level chipset motherboard.
If you go ryzen, look for a X570 motherboard which is likely to support the 5000 series processors best.
It is not clear if the next gen ryzen processors past 5000 are going to run on amd4 motherboards. There comes a time when support must end to allow better processors.

If you want a new intel motherboard, wait for the rocket lake announcement and the 500 series motherboards.
i got 2x8 Gskill Aegis 3000mhz ram, i know im asking a lot of questions, but i dont think my budget will fit 11th gen or 5000 series also they wont arrive any soon in my country, i think i made a choice but confused, i7 8700 or i7 9700 ? also can Asus b360m-k handle them without getting burned ? what about the 8700k or 9700k too ? since they are same price as 9700 ?
 

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