Question Would a second router be a good solution for gaming?

[Candyman760]

So essentially, my question is this; will having a second router setup (through bridge mode or access point or whatever) be a good solution for gaming? What worries me is that it won't be connected to the modem, so wouldn't there be some delay/dropouts? Some input/help would be appreciated. I'm currently using powerline, but I get like 70 down 100 up connection through that on a 300mbps plan. And there is also some latency issues with it occasionally too. I also tried a wifi extender which solved the speed problems, but introduced random drop outs and packet loss. Would it even be possible to have a second router without a modem even with the bridge mode or access point? The reason I can't plug directly into the router is because it's on a separate floor. All of this is just really confusing. Any help with this would be appreciated.

 

[bill001g]

Not sure what magic you think a router will provide. It either connects to your main router via the powerline or it connect to the main router via wifi (most routers do not have that ability). So the second router will see the same issues your pc did and now you introduce another router into the path that could cause you even more issues.

Powerline is always your best option for online games. It is kinda rare that you see latency issues on powerline but you could have some device in your house that is interfering. Things with motors tend to be the worst offender. I have a shopvac that can kill any powerline no matter where in the house it is used. You want to be using the newer powerline technology called av2-1000 or av2-2000. It has much less issues than the older av500 stuff

If you have tv coax in both location you might consider MoCa. You can get actual gigabit speeds on this technology. It has come down in price so it is only a little more than powerline units.

I am surprised the powerline is not good enough for games. If it is mostly the speed what you can do when you want to say download unplug the ethernet. It should then switch over to the wifi via the extender automatically. When you are done plug the connection to the powerline back in and it will switch back to the ethernet. It would be nice if you could use both ethernet and wifi at the same time but there is no way to accomplish this in windows.

 

[Candyman760]

Not sure what magic you think a router will provide. It either connects to your main router via the powerline or it connect to the main router via wifi (most routers do not have that ability). So the second router will see the same issues your pc did and now you introduce another router into the path that could cause you even more issues.

Powerline is always your best option for online games. It is kinda rare that you see latency issues on powerline but you could have some device in your house that is interfering. Things with motors tend to be the worst offender. I have a shopvac that can kill any powerline no matter where in the house it is used. You want to be using the newer powerline technology called av2-1000 or av2-2000. It has much less issues than the older av500 stuff

If you have tv coax in both location you might consider MoCa. You can get actual gigabit speeds on this technology. It has come down in price so it is only a little more than powerline units.

I am surprised the powerline is not good enough for games. If it is mostly the speed what you can do when you want to say download unplug the ethernet. It should then switch over to the wifi via the extender automatically. When you are done plug the connection to the powerline back in and it will switch back to the ethernet. It would be nice if you could use both ethernet and wifi at the same time but there is no way to accomplish this in windows.

Never said I was expecting miracles. I was confused which was why I asked for help. But anyway thanks for your reply. I guess I’ll just get a better powerline adapter.

 

[gggplaya]

Are you using the ISP provided router/modem currently?

Setting that to bridge modem(so it acts only as a modem) and using your own router can actually help with gaming if you get a router with good QOS. Be careful though, many top brand routers have QOS that isn't all that great. I only trust QOS based on the FQ_Codel algorithm from personal experience. It simply just works, and works well for gaming while still allowing your roommates to stream and do whatever they want with the internet. The reason why so many routers don't use it is because it's very processor intensive. Even the beefiest ARM processor routers can only manage about 300mbps of bandwidth using the algorithm. So you should be fine, but if you ever decide to get gigabit internet the router won't be able to do those speeds with it enabled.

70down and 100up is plenty more than enough for gaming. Gaming doesn't use much bandwidth at all. The problem is, you can't have dropped packets or packets being queued anywhere in the pipeline. Gaming packets need to go first, which is where a good QOS algorithm comes into play.

If you buy an ASUS router with Merlin compatibility, you can use FQ_codel. You have to get one of these models: https://sourceforge.net/projects/asuswrt-merlin/files/

Qualcomm is now using FQ_Codel in their "Streamboost" technology as well.

 

[Candyman760]

Are you using the ISP provided router/modem currently?

Setting that to bridge modem(so it acts only as a modem) and using your own router can actually help with gaming if you get a router with good QOS. Be careful though, many top brand routers have QOS that isn't all that great. I only trust QOS based on the FQ_Codel algorithm from personal experience. It simply just works, and works well for gaming while still allowing your roommates to stream and do whatever they want with the internet. The reason why so many routers don't use it is because it's very processor intensive. Even the beefiest ARM processor routers can only manage about 300mbps of bandwidth using the algorithm. So you should be fine, but if you ever decide to get gigabit internet the router won't be able to do those speeds with it enabled.

70down and 100up is plenty more than enough for gaming. Gaming doesn't use much bandwidth at all. The problem is, you can't have dropped packets or packets being queued anywhere in the pipeline. Gaming packets need to go first, which is where a good QOS algorithm comes into play.

If you buy an ASUS router with Merlin compatibility, you can use FQ_codel. You have to get one of these models: https://sourceforge.net/projects/asuswrt-merlin/files/

Qualcomm is now using FQ_Codel in their "Streamboost" technology as well.

The more I think about it, a second router isn't really sounding all that ideal. There is no way I can connect it to the first one through a cable, so the second router would be receiving a wireless signal; so It's just a glorified wireless extender essentially. And yes, 70 down 100 up is fine, but sometimes my ping will spike to like 100 for no good reason, and that's what's causing me issues. So I figure if I get a better powerline, that problem will be solved. I'm currently using this one. Do you have any recommendations for a better one? I don't care about price really, just whatever the best performing one is. Thanks for your reply.

 

[SamirD]

The more I think about it, a second router isn't really sounding all that ideal. There is no way I can connect it to the first one through a cable, so the second router would be receiving a wireless signal; so It's just a glorified wireless extender essentially. And yes, 70 down 100 up is fine, but sometimes my ping will spike to like 100 for no good reason, and that's what's causing me issues. So I figure if I get a better powerline, that problem will be solved. I'm currently using this one. Do you have any recommendations for a better one? I don't care about price really, just whatever the best performing one is. Thanks for your reply.

I believe comtrend was using a different implementation than a lot of the other brands like tp-link and netgear. I think the newest unit by either of those brands would be great for you.

Also, check if you do have coax, even in another room. Running a powerline from another room on the same floor versus between floors also improves the powerline performance.

 

[gggplaya]

Also, check if you do have coax, even in another room. Running a powerline from another room on the same floor versus between floors also improves the powerline performance.

That really just depends on whether or not the outlets are on the same circuit breaker. Oddly, my house has 2 circuits that span both floors.

You can go to your breaker box and read the labels of each breaker. Try to figure out which one you have your router on. If there are any outlets on the 2nd floor which share the same breaker, that'll be a shorter and cleaner path for them to communicate.

 

[Candyman760]

That really just depends on whether or not the outlets are on the same circuit breaker. Oddly, my house has 2 circuits that span both floors.

You can go to your breaker box and read the labels of each breaker. Try to figure out which one you have your router on. If there are any outlets on the 2nd floor which share the same breaker, that'll be a shorter and cleaner path for them to communicate.

Do you think using an actual ethernet port on the wall would bring faster speeds? I have one relatively close by and could probably pull it off.

 

[gggplaya]

Yes, ethernet is always best. Where does the other end of the ethernet go?

 

[Candyman760]

Yes, ethernet is always best. Where does the other end of the ethernet go?

I'd assume the router? It says "DATA" on it. How do I find out where the other end goes?

 

[gggplaya]

Was that put in when the house was built? It probably goes to the basement or some kind of network closet. I would search around the house and figure out where it goes.

If it doesn't go to where the modem/router is at, you may be able to move the modem/router to wherever the other end of that cable goes, then buy a second access point and plug it into the data port. Then you can have 2 wifi points in your house.

 

[Candyman760]

Was that put in when the house was built? It probably goes to the basement or some kind of network closet. I would search around the house and figure out where it goes.

If it doesn't go to where the modem/router is at, you may be able to move the modem/router to wherever the other end of that cable goes, then buy a second access point and plug it into the data port. Then you can have 2 wifi points in your house.

Whatever. This is all getting really convoluted. I'll probably just get another powerline adapter in the near future. Thanks for your help man.

 

[gggplaya]

If you put the work in, do a bit of searching around your house. You could truly solve your network issues and even make your network better.

 

[SamirD]

That really just depends on whether or not the outlets are on the same circuit breaker. Oddly, my house has 2 circuits that span both floors.

You can go to your breaker box and read the labels of each breaker. Try to figure out which one you have your router on. If there are any outlets on the 2nd floor which share the same breaker, that'll be a shorter and cleaner path for them to communicate.

Not necessarily. In my apartment the whole unit was on one breaker. And yet two outlets on the other side of a wall were terrible compared to if I put one on the same side of the wall--all the same circuit. Powerlines generally are better with physical closeness.

 

[gggplaya]

Not necessarily. In my apartment the whole unit was on one breaker. And yet two outlets on the other side of a wall were terrible compared to if I put one on the same side of the wall--all the same circuit. Powerlines generally are better with physical closeness.

Hard to believe an entire apartment is on 1 breaker, are you sure you don't mean "Panel"?

Yes, the closer the better because you have a shorter run of copper. But if you have 2 rooms next to each other and they're on different breakers, then the signal has to travel all the way back down to the breaker, in the panel, up to the next breaker, and then all the way back up to the next room. Which means a much longer run of copper. Physical proximity of the outlet is not what matter, it's about how far the signal has to travel.

Also if those outlets are on the same line or near a transmitter of electrical noise like the motor from an HVAC system, refridgerator, or a microwave etc....

 

[SamirD]

Hard to believe an entire apartment is on 1 breaker, are you sure you don't mean "Panel"?

Yes, the closer the better because you have a shorter run of copper. But if you have 2 rooms next to each other and they're on different breakers, then the signal has to travel all the way back down to the breaker, in the panel, up to the next breaker, and then all the way back up to the next room. Which means a much longer run of copper. Physical proximity of the outlet is not what matter, it's about how far the signal has to travel.

Also if those outlets are on the same line or near a transmitter of electrical noise like the motor from an HVAC system, refridgerator, or a microwave etc....

Sorry, you are right--one panel. But it only had like 3 breakers in there for outlets. The traversing isn't a bit deal in a small space, and the newer adapters deal with even different panels really well. The biggest factor are the unknowns that just make one set up faster than another. I'm thankful that testing different powerline setups takes only minutes!

 

[microtank]

If you’re having problems with 100 mbps.. I honestly do not know why gamers still believe high mbps is better.. in all honesty if your network has more than devices online it’s a bandwidth issue. Not only that if the device you’re gaming on is using bandwidth without your knowledge. Even with 50,000,000,000 gbps will not provide a near 0 ping. However.. the ping will skyrocket if all bandwidth is being used, which will corrupt you judgement on how ping/latency works. You will get a high ping if all bandwidth is being used. A cellphone can use all bandwidth if on the same network.

by default the automation features like automatic updates should be turned off, including the gaming machine. The only real reason a gamer wants 1000 mbps is to download digital games extremely fast. I literally played gears of war 4 on 512 kbps and if it needs more I will lag. Which never needs more bandwidth. Dial up is still excellent for gaming, but not compatible with most newer games. But no one listens to me. I ran 4 games and 3 videos on 6 mbps on one network. The games did not lag online, and the videos did not buffer. You’re literally most likely using all bandwidth at your home network. A misconception of power lines is even electricity uses data. The wireless issue is pure interference, the antenna, the cpu of the router. It’s any number of things. My room is on pure wireless at 4 mbps, with 9.164 on reserve. Downloading a 30 gigabyte game doesn’t not take a century on 1 mbps.

I know why people hated dial up internet. That’s because they just don’t get it. A Sega Dreamcast console is a testament that dial up internet was good for gaming... but no people watch YouTube, and listen to the pro gamers that literally know nothing about games or internet.. and yet all I hear and see is enforcement of misinformation

 

[SamirD]

...but no people watch YouTube, and listen to the pro gamers that literally know nothing about games or internet...

Yeah, it seems the 'kids' think that if someone is making a video they know what they're talking about--most of the time it's the opposite, lol.