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Wow--New Black Edition Phenom Next Week-- Comments?

BaronMatrix

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It should be great since nearly every sample I saw was able to get to 3GHz by turning up the multiplier. And with AMD OverDrive, great may be an understatement.
 

jagmuss

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Every sample that you saw? AMD invited you into the yet to occur unveiling?
 

bfellow

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The biggest issue facing this release is the fact it is a B2 revision and the very limited availiblity right now. Like Dirk Meyer had said, there is gonna be a delay on the "good" Phenom chips.
 

Kamrooz

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fraud comes to mind. Not literally though, the black edition and extreme editions are known for unlocked multipliers to favor overclockers, but to sell a black edition Phenom is down right unacceptable atm. Later on, if some of the architectural issues are fixed and they can get phenom to clock higher, I wouldn't mind it, but right now, unacceptable.

Baron...::sighs::..nvm, you're not worthy my time.
 

zenmaster

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No, it's not Fraud.

The "Black Edition" for the X2 were High End Enthusiast Chips.

The "Black Edition" for the Phenom is for those who want to join in mourning for AMD.

Sad as it is, even if you could OC the chip to 3.0Ghz, it would still be slower than X2 chips for nearly all operations since with the bug fix in place its slower Clock for Clock than the X2s.

Let's pray the B3 chips from AMD actually work when they are released in Q1.
 

LukeBird

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I'm sorry, but that is a completely idiotic statement. You are assuming that a BE Phenom would be a release of the current stepping... I'm not saying it will OR won't be, but if AMD hasn't even told its investors (although I don't believe for a second that is true, if I'd dropped quarter of a bill or whatever in a co. I'd wanna know what was going on there!) then why the hell is it going to tell the press about it and the stepping etc.?
Until there are some hard-facts on it, it is all speculation!
I'd love one though! :)
 
If its true it wouldn't have to be a b2 and could be the b3 as no multiplier and no heatsing & fan should reduce the time to market. I would guess if this was the case we would be looking at a small volume and at a some what higher price. I would guess this CPU will be 2.6GHz stock as that was to be the FX to release.
 

Kamrooz

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Like I stated, Fraud comes to mind, "Not literally". I'm not saying it's literally fraud. It's not a High end enthusiast chip either, as they have budget based black editions, it's role is overclockability thanks to the unlocked multiplier. I laugh at the inexperienced enthusiasts who go ape **** (excuse my language) over the extreme edition intel procs, and throw a massive amount of cash for something they wont utilize. If you don't overclock, there really is no justification in purchasing these unlocked chips if you don't plan to OC. I heavily doubt that a qx6700's price is justified at 899.99 clocked at 2.66. when a q6600 clocked at 2.4 costs 280. Would you pay the extra 600 for a measely 266 mhz?..obviously no....

It's just the fact that these Phenom black editions won't be able to OC. The unlocked multiplier chips only have one real benefit, better overclocking ability. When a Phenom can't clock well at all due to the architecture, it kind of puts a bad taste in your mouth to sell a black edition.

Lukebird: I'm speaking in regards to the current issue, personally, I don't think the b3 stepping is going to help AMD that much. It will hopefully decrease their power consumption and give the barcelona chips a bit more ability to clock higher. But if it stays the same in terms of the architectural faults, it won't be worth it. Only time will tell....But just so you know...

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20071128120717_AMD_Readies_Black_Edition_Phenom_Processor_Phenom_FX_May_Face_Further_Delay.html

They were planning to release it with the current stepping. Even regardless of the eratta issue, phenoms architecture currently can't clock high enough to make up for it's issues in raw speed. If there was no eratta, I do not doubt at all that we would of seen a phenom black edition this month....Whch frankly, would be a joke, for now.
 

spaztic7

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Ok... no one hold your breath for this. Just wait and see if it really does come out and if it really is any good. It makes no sense to talk about how great or bad it will be until we can buy one ourselves.
 

justinmcg67

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I don't see the point in a Black Edition Phenom this early. I expected a FX series much sooner than a Black Edition series product. The whole reason behind the K8 Black Edition processors was because of how favorable they were in over-clocking. The Phenom product line is not recognized as being any sort of over-clocker, much less having the over-clockers label stickere don to it.

I personally think they need to focus on fixing bugs, getting better yields, and increasing volume before they decide to tackle an enthusiast style of product. This helps to reassure my assessment on AMD losing it's core values; stop targeting high-end enthusiast, start targeting mid-range, low-end users.

Such a disappointment...:(
 

Kamrooz

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Indeed, I agree whole heartedly. What busts my chops the most is the fact that Ruiz is stil the CEO, I was expecting a resignation with Dirk stepping in. But we might not see that till late 2008 from what it seems. He also ends up getting a raise?....

When AMD aims to innovate, they always deliver, look at their upcoming 740/780/790 IGP chipsets. Hybrid crossfire, as well as the ability to toggle between the two (IGP for desktop/media, video card for intense uses), being able to cut the power to the video card and switch to an IGP based solution is a fantastic idea. It will save us money on our utilities bill. Also, with crossfire and crossfirex becoming a reality, it will end up saving you a very large sum of money.

AMD really needs to get back to the core values that got them so far with Athlon/X2..Stop trying to follow Intel's flute with the octo core so soon when you are having large troubles with a quad design. Take a breather, fix your processors issues, and compete at what got you this far, creative innovations. Not to say that a Native quad isn't innovative, but they forced them selves to take something that intel would touch till 45nm, focused so much on the native quad aspect and not the architectural performance itself. Let's just hope they get back on track, but who knows when that will happen.
 

justinmcg67

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Yes, I agree about the raise. That was a big "How on earth could they do that" sort of thing. If the company is hurting so much right now, I'm not sure if raises are the highest of things on the priority list. That isn't to say they shouldn't give a raise to some workers, just not those that the general public holds solely accountable for major things.

AMD was always good on creating innovative and accurate road-maps. They're great for creating things and delivering on what they say; that seemed to go aways when they failed to expand on 4x4, which I was actually contemplating purchasing, but with no company support around it it was money thrown away.

AMD would not be in this giant mess had it not focused so much on "native" quad core as it would have been on making a quad core that performed "better." There's to many things to list that AMD could do right now to pull them back into the game, or things that they could have done about 2 years ago to put themselves at great profits.

The only saving grace I can see from the Agena core is the Tri-Core and Dual-Core processors. The sooner they release those, the sooner they can start making money; being as that they would be A.) cheaper and B.) perform better than K8. K8 performs fairly decent towards Core 2 Duos in performance and price, so I imagine that a K10 dual core would be even better. So where are they? That's the question I'm asking.

This whole Black Edition thing is just to soon, and way, way off track. I think a sad face is warranted here. :(
 

mtyermom

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I call bullshit.
 

yomamafor1

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WOW! 2.3Ghz ~ 3.0Ghz is called great!

Then what about Q6600, which can go from 2.4Ghz ~ 3.6Ghz on air?

Personally, I really have doubt for your statements, as they have been proven continuously to be inaccurate. However, we'll see when they launch.
 

zenmaster

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If AMD could produce chips that stable at those speeds, they would and try to sell them.

The only reason Intel does not sell faster chips is they are not being pushed.

I read the thread and I saw nothing about stable chips at those speeds.
A few talking about booting. A few saying briefly "Prime Stable".

Not really much of any good news.

And to those curious about steppings, AMD already said they do not expect to have the B3 available until late Q1. So, no, this is not a chip that has the L3 erratta fixed. I'm not sure they have even figured out how to do that well yet. Remember, this erratta is one of the main reasons they kept reducing speeds.

They also cut the NB speed to try and fix it.
The linked article talks alot about how the chip really suffers under NB under 2.0.

Now, by supplying lots of power and lots of chipset cooling, they did get higher NB speeds, but again this is more along the lines of extreme cooling.

You are going to need to spend lots on the Phenom to make it match a 6400+ X2.
 

cnumartyr

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How to sell off a bunch of bugged B2 Processors:

A) Relabel them as unlocked Black Editions to the unknowing enthusiast.

If it's not an early B3, it's not worth it.
 

husky mctarflash

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So I guess the essential questions here are:

1) is that article about BE being released inaccurate altogether...

and

2) but even if correct, will the release be even more egg on AMD's face if it flops...

To paraphrase Grand Moff Tarkin: "You are taking an awful risk here Vader. This plan of yours better work."
 

BaronMatrix

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No, this very site had an ES (unlocked) that ran stable at 3GHz and several other places easily got to 3GHz. Only Anand got lower but I believe he had a retail chip (locked).
 

BaronMatrix

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Well, it may be much better with the boards and BIOS' improving steadily (mobos do get new revs). Please don't let this thread debilitate into whatever the last one did. If you don't have anything positive to say that's fine. Participate in another thread. The platform can only get better. I'm confident that it will very quickly.

I'm not at all positive of what the exact clockspeed problems are, but again, they haven't been making chips for 20 years without being able to release products as advertised. But I'm sure that no matter what they do, your opinion won't change.
 

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